Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Forms of Id to buy a shotgun?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Workingclass93, Dec 6, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Workingclass93

    Workingclass93 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    So, let me first say, this is not my first gun purchase.
    I have bought shotguns, rifles and handguns before.
    But I did move for the first time about 3 months ago, and was planning on getting a a shotgun tomorrow.
    I contacted the store that I was planning on going to ans asked them about getting a gun with my old address, and I also informed them that I had a car registration to prove that I live at my new address.
    They told me that it wouldn't be acceptable and that I needed a new license. So that's fine, I went to the DMV and had my license renewed and should get the new one in about 10 days.
    My question in all of this is, when you renew your license and are waiting for a new one, you get a print out of your new license and on it, its says "This receipt is an acceptable form of ID for voting and serves as your Driver License until your card arrives in the mail". Can I bring this into the store to buy a gun? Or will it be turned down? Because everything I have read says that its a legal form of ID. It also has my new residence address on the sheet.
     
  2. Scooter22

    Scooter22 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2012
    Messages:
    955
    Location:
    Central NY, not the rotten apple
    Call the store where your going to buy it. Even if it's leagal stores can have their own policy.
     
    Workingclass93 likes this.
  3. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    9,527
    Location:
    USA
    Workingclass93 likes this.
  4. Workingclass93

    Workingclass93 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    10
  5. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,240
    Location:
    Western PA
    Per ATF regulations, your car registration with your current address would have worked fine. You should have been able to provide your drivers license with your old address on it as your proof of ID (provided it wasn't expired) and then used your car registration as your proof of current residence.

    Either your state has extra rules for proof of residency that are more restrictive than ATF rules, or your dealer has an annoying in-store policy, or the employee you talked to was clueless.
     
  6. Workingclass93

    Workingclass93 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    yea my license isn't expired, had 4 more years to go actually. And I live in Wisconsin, and have never had difficulty buying a firearm before, but I've been thinking for awhile now that it was gonna be a hassle buying a new gun, because of me moving. The guy I talked to seemed nice enough, but was very short in his answers, he told me "thats how the law works son" like i was a kid or something lol. I know that's kind of petty, but it kind of rubbed me the wrong way. I'm just hoping they accept this form of ID tomorrow, and dont give me a ton of <deleted> for it. Otherwise its safe to say I'll be taking my services elsewhere.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2017
    Theohazard likes this.
  7. ShootingIsFun

    ShootingIsFun Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Ohio
    In my state they print your new licence in about 1 minute while you wait.
    If I was in your situation I'd be ok with waiting a few days for a legit id to arrive and not give my LGS a hard time... What's the rush?
     
  8. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,240
    Location:
    Western PA
    It’s not about being in a rush, it’s about the fact that the OP already had the document he needed (the car registration), but the dealer didn’t have a clue how to do his job. Me, I don’t think it’s OK when a dealer makes up nonexistent laws and gives out bad information. If that requirement was their store policy for whatever reason, then fine. But this dealer claimed it was the law when it’s not (unless Wisconsin has some weird extra residency proof requirements, but I highly doubt that’s the case).

    The sad thing is that it’s not like these ATF rules are arcane and mysterious or anything. All he’d have to do is read the instructions on the back pages of the 4473, which is a document he probably handles constantly all day long.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  9. Workingclass93

    Workingclass93 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    No rush, i just dont get many days off, and was hoping to do some skeet shooting with a friend next week. I'll see what they say, the worst they can say is that the ID wont do, and ill have to wait till my license comes in the mail.
     
  10. hdwhit
    • Contributing Member

    hdwhit Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    3,542
    Location:
    Frisco, TX
    Bottom line is that regardless of what the receipt says, it will entirely depend on the clerk at the store and what is manager says. The seller is trying to protect themselves, not do anything nefarious to you.

    Personally, I would wait the 10 days until the new license arrived. Unless this is a "big box store" where employee turnover is high, you will want to build a relationship with this new store and not pushing them or seeming unusually "needful" of a gun is a good way to start.
     
    ShootingIsFun likes this.
  11. hdwhit
    • Contributing Member

    hdwhit Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    3,542
    Location:
    Frisco, TX
    I disagree.

    The dealer is trying to protect his/her FFL. Where there is a judgment call to be made, it rests with the FFL and this one is ensuring that the transaction will raise no questions - that is, in fact, doing their job, so that they are here to sell guns tomorrow.
     
    ShootingIsFun likes this.
  12. Workingclass93

    Workingclass93 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    This is a big sporting goods store, and again, there isn't any rush, i was just asking a question.
     
  13. Workingclass93

    Workingclass93 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    10
     
  14. Workingclass93

    Workingclass93 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    After thinking about it, I'll just wait till my ID comes in the mail, that way there wont be any hassle. Thanks to everyone for your answers and suggestions.
     
    243winxb and ShootingIsFun like this.
  15. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,240
    Location:
    Western PA
    This would make sense if this were some sort of grey area. But it's not a grey area, not even close. There's no judgment call to be made. The ATF is very clear on this subject.

    It's so clear, in fact, that it's written explicitly on the 4473 itself. First, the instructions on the back of the form say it clearly, and then there's even a separate box right on page 2 for the dealer to record that an additional document besides the ID was used to prove residency.

    The OP had the proper documentation that the ATF says is required for him to buy his shotgun. The dealer still denied the sale and claimed that he was following the law. That's not "protecting his FFL", that's being ignorant.

    Look, if the dealer wants to make some kind of store policy that they only accept certain forms of proof of residency (maybe for the purpose of making it easier to train employees or something like that), then fine. But if that's the case, then just admit it's store policy. If they claim it's the law, then they're either lying or they're ignorant. Neither is a good trait in an LGS.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    bearcreek likes this.
  16. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Messages:
    8,193
    Location:
    Kingsport Tennessee
    I am aware in Tennessee and Virginia, there are state laws on firearms transactions in addition to federal.

    Tennessee Code Ann. § 39-17-1316 governs firearms dealers "persons who are engaged in the business of dealing in firearms as a regular course of business" and first requires the dealer to have a federal firearms license. The law also has state regulations on ID requirements which includes a phoned-in state background check which has disqualifiers that go beyond the federal NICS prohibited person criteria.

    You cannot just say the ATF requires this, or the federal regulations require that, of a firearms dealer, then fault the dealer for being cautious about state law and local law. I am also aware that border areas like TN/VA have guidelines that often reflect local conditions. You won't find them listed at atf.gov.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  17. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    356
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Hold in a bit. What type of shotgun you looking for? Since you are in WI, it should be easier.

    Though you joined yesterday, I 'assume' you are an upstanding citizen, clean record?

    I would check out the local offerings on Armslist. Of course if you do entertain a private firearms purchase, take reasonable precautions. I just bought off Armslist a few days ago, he was a very nice gentleman.
     
  18. guyfromohio

    guyfromohio Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,814
    Location:
    ohio
    There's another factor at play.....we are expecting gun-store employees to understand the law fully. I'd expect an owner, holder of the FFL to know, but the 25 year-old tacti-king who recommends a Glock to every newb walking in the store will have driver's license blinders on.
     
    km101 likes this.
  19. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    458
    Welcome OP (original poster) to the forums:thumbup:
     
  20. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,240
    Location:
    Western PA
    No, I definitely don’t expect all gun store employees to know the law. But I would hope they could at least read the instructions on the 4473 when a question like this comes up, because that’s all the employee needed to do in this case.
     
  21. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,517
    Location:
    West of the Big Muddy, East of the Rockies and Nor
    This is your answer.

    The employees at the closest Cabelas to me are totally clueless about many guns and know even less about the 4473 rules.

    I brought a black powder revolver once from them and no one in the entire store could show me how to disassemble and reassemble it. Thank goodness for the Internet and YouTube.

    I tired to buy a C&R revolver another time from then using my C&R license. Forget it. After spending 30 minutes while the manager tried to figure out how to do it I gave up and just filled out the 4473.

    Any effort on your part to educate them about the law be totally wasted hours out of your life.
     
  22. Workingclass93

    Workingclass93 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Its just a Mossberg 500 and yes i have a clean record. I know about armslist, but have always been wary to try that, somehow meeting up with a complete stranger to buy a gun doesn't sit well with me.
     
  23. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    923
    Location:
    Mechanicsville, VA
    In VA the current DL has been the norm as far as I can remember. When they used to require a second form of ID a vehicle registration was an option for a second form.

    I swear this exact situation happened just a couple days ago while I was buying a gun at a LGS here. Guy trying to buy a shotgun with only a print out license.

    If you lived in VA I would say I might have seen you....weird.
     
  24. cjwils

    cjwils Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Messages:
    68
    Location:
    Seattle region
    I don't think there is any place where a car registration counts as legal ID. Also, I think most states require you to change or update your DL within 30 days (might vary by state) when you move. That fact that you had not updated your DL for 3 months, and were trying to use car a registration document would make me very suspicious if I were the local gun dealer.
     
  25. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    356
    Location:
    Wisconsin
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page