Fortune Magazine: The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Fishbed77, Jun 27, 2012.

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  1. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Member

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    Fascisnating "Fast & Furious" article on CNN Money

    Although clearly written from an anti-2nd Amendment perspective (typical of CNN articles), I found this article about the inner workings of the "Fast and Furious" debacle to be very interesting, if for no other reason than the details it reveals about the childishness of a number of the BAFTE agents involved.

    As someone working in the private sector, I can't imagine ever writing some of the emails or memos detailed, and expecting to keep my job (or at least not be ridiculed). Even the memos from the "by-the-book" Special Agent Dave Voth sound incredibly unprofessional.

    What I found even more surprising is that almost every one of these folks mentioned in the article (BAFTE agents and local/federal prosecutors alike) is STILL in the employment of the taxpayers.

    http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/?hpt=hp_t2
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
  2. wlewisiii

    wlewisiii Member

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    The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal:

    More here:
    http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/?hpt=hp_t2

    Please read the whole article before commenting. Thank you.
     
  3. publius

    publius Member

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    That article does not mention Voth's relationships and email exchanges with gun dealers. The dealers were very nervous about making so many obviously illegal sales. Voth and Co. told them to go ahead.

    This does not exactly fit with the narrative the article is trying to construct...

     
  4. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/
    Katherine Eban, "The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal", Fortune, 27 Jun 2012.

    I read that. I have also read 153 other articles and reports on gunwalker from multiple sources. IF that article were one's only source, it would be easy to see things the author's way.

    How does the outrage over OF&F expressed by Mexican authorities and newswriters, and other Latin American observors, jibe with the article's claim that the outrage over OF&F was frenzied up by NRA. GOP and the Sippsey Street Irregulars? Do Mexican authorities and newswriters, and Latin American journalists, take talking points from NRA, GOP and SSI? Or was OF&F an outrage to anyone who looked at it independently?

    Plus the article claims that the Phoenix AZ US Attorney Office could not prosecute straw purchasers (or the buyers they handed off to) in Arizona because of the federal gun laws; how does that reconcile with case after case brought against straw purchasers and cartel buyers in Texas by US Attorneys under the same laws?
     
  5. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    It's shot through with lies, misinformation and bias.

    It's telling that the author has apparently never heard of ITAR.
     
  6. robhof

    robhof Member

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    robhof

    Convicted felons are not allowed to buy guns in the US, laws already on the books, many if not all gun runners had criminal records and could have been prosecuted by existing laws at any time in a federal court, so the pro Obama/Holder stories just don't carry any weight in the light of day. Whatever happened to the open and public government that Obama promised, open and fair as long as it doesn't taint his halo....:cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss:
     
  7. Twmaster

    Twmaster Member

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    Funny how Fortune can get their hands on restricted documents but a Congressional committee cannot?
     
  8. Neverwinter

    Neverwinter Member

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    That statement should have been predicated with with the condition of domestic outrage rather than claim to speak for the international community. With that limitation, the claim is valid.

    You can blame US journalism's ethnocentrism for that oversight.
     
  9. publius

    publius Member

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    The mistakes on very basic facts did not end there...

    The article says:

    Issa is among those who have NOT called for Holder's resignation.

    What kind of reporter makes such a basic mistake about her prime subject?
     
  10. Twmaster

    Twmaster Member

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    Shoddy.

    Or a reporter with an agenda.
     
  11. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    ^ Or a reporter acting as a xerox for one side's talking points.
     
  12. wv109323

    wv109323 Member

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    OF&F

    I read all the article and have a lot of concerns about it's validity. It seems that the author had an agenda.
    First the Form 4473 asks if the purchase that you are about to make is for you personelly. If someone buys 6 guns one day and sells them the next that is not a personel purchase. The article indicates that a person could buy six guns today, then have a change of heart and sell them the next day and that is entirely legal. It may be hard to prosecute an individual on one such occurence but multiple events would indicate a pattern. The pattern would prove to a jury that that individual was not truthful that the purchases were not personel purchases. Also turning over multiple guns in a short time would indicate "engaging in the business" That too is also a punishable offense.
    For a person to pay you to make a purchase would also indicate that the person was "engaging in the busineess".
    I think there was ample evidence for prosecution in this case however it did not happen.
    For the purchases to be made by FBI informants ( as drug kingpins) speaks volumes how inefficient our government is with our tax dollars.
     
  13. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Bingo. Its a sorry piece of journalistic trash.
     
  14. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    John Lott commented that the Eban article is written in the tone of an op/ed editorial or advocacy opinion piece and not in the tone of a news article.
     
  15. DMF

    DMF Member

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    John Lott has ZERO credibility on the topic.

    Does the name Mary Rosh ring a bell? How about his BS about his "lost" survey data?
     
  16. publius

    publius Member

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    Correctly identifying an advocacy piece does tend to boost Lott's credibility on the subject, regardless of past unrelated sockpuppetry.
     
  17. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    John Lott has more credibility in his left big toe than there has ever been, is now, and will ever be in the whole of the gun control movement. They are almost invariably congenital liars.

    If you want to Google something, Google the name "michael bellesiles". His "work" is synonymous with the "truthfulness" of the gun control cult.
     
  18. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Bingo!!
    Bellesiles was the darling of the anti-gun movement after his book Arming America came out. He won the Bancroft Prize for literature. Then some folks starting looking at Bellesiles "research" and found it to be mostly fiction. In the end Bellesiles lost his job at Emory University and his literary prize.
     
  19. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Lott has written both op/ed advocacy editorials AND academic articles that have passed American Economic Association peer review standards. So, yes, I do believe John Lott could tell the difference between an advocacy piece (editorialism) and a news story (journalism).

    That Fortune piece relies on David Voth and William Newell, who were given "lateral transfers" when the Fast and Furious scandal first broke. William Newell oversaw gun walking under both "Operation Wide Receiver" (2006-2007) and "Operation Fast and Furious" (2009-2011). Tainted one-sided sourcing = tainted one-sided journalism.
     
  20. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

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    OK...what's ITAR?
     
  21. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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  22. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    ^ itar

    Presumably, whoever authorized allowing suspected straw purchasers for foreign actors to walk with multiple guns were technically in violation of ITAR by allowing export of munitions without control.

    Field agent John Dodson says he was ordered to let guns walk by his superiors. His superior David Voth is blaming his subordinants especially Dodson, but it looks like Bill Newell another ATF supervisor is blaming his superiors, presumably including Dennis Burke.
     
  23. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

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    Thanks!

    Has someone on the intarwebs gone through this article point by point and fisked the author yet?
     
  24. Jim NE

    Jim NE Member

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    I understand your perspective, but if the federal GSA (General Services Administration) can make mocking music videos (on government property, no less) about how they'll never be audited or lose their jobs, your dealing with a whole different level of "job security and entitlement", one that many of us who've been in the private sector just can't relate to.
     
  25. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/gunwalking_emails_041411.pdf
    Letter from Senator Charles Grasseley to USAG Eric Holder, 13 Apr 2011,
    on e-mails between "Cooperating FFL" and ATF David Voth

    Includes a number of [redacted] emails on Fast and Furious.
     
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