Found flintlock pistol in barn

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Tinpig

Tinpig

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My son was cleaning out his grandfather's (my father-in-law) barn last week and found this old pistol.
It's 21 inches long, barrel 12-13 in., and heavy enough to cudgel a horse to death. The bore measures approx. .68 in. The wood is split and cracked in places, the ramrod is missing and it's badly surface rusted but not particularly pitted. The action moves and functions although the spring is very weak. The barrel is octagonal at the breech and tapers to cylindrical at the muzzle. There are no stamps or markings that I can see. The brasswork and heavy butt are tarnished but in good shape.
It looks like a pirate pistol that was stowed in the bilges. :roll:

My father-in-law liked guns but he's long gone; my wife's sisters not only have no interest in them but downright hate them, so they're happy for my son to have the pistol. I'm wondering if anyone might have some idea of its approx. date, know anything about the type, and what could be done to restore it to some sort of reasonable display condition. I know you're not supposed to touch antiques, but I don't believe a heavy coat of rust is appropriate for any firearm.

Here are some pics:

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All advice welcome.
Thanks,
Tinpig
 
Exciting find for a young boy!

High Tinpig :)

It had to be an exciting find for your son. Let his imagination run wild, Revolutionary War, pirates etc WOW!!!! :D
Now if I can try a little help. It appears to have a hint of French influence, I see this in the soft shape or angle of the grip & in the shape of the brass. But again the barrel going from octagonal to round I have seen on English & German made weapons. Age wise I would guess around 1760 to 1780. This is all speculation on my part. I can see a serious trip to the library.
As far as the rust goes I can only give you basics & I know we have some great folks on here with the knowledge to get it cleaned up to be presentable to hang up & be pleased to own a little history. At least the screws don't appear to be buggered up. I would use the triple ought steel wool or finer if there is, with oil & soak the moving parts in Kroil a penetrating oil that I have great success with.
Good Luck & I'm sure others can fine tune the info better. :)
Guns are fun!!

Digger
 
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BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE, BE ABSOLUTELY SURE IT'S NOT LOADED.

Best way to check is to put a dowel down the muzzle and mark the dowel for the depth. Then take the dowel out and put it along side the barrel to be sure it bottomed on the barrel and not a load. It's a simple check, but easy and effective.
 
Nice find! It has the look of a mid 18th century French Cavalry pistol. The differences that I can see are the side plate, and of all things the "beaver tail" carving at the back of the lock mortise. Is the lock plate rounded or flat? You may find markings when the surface is cleaner. After making sure it is not loaded, and I have found some that were, if you can remove the lock, and drive out the pins holding the barrel in the stock, very, very carefully(!), you could put it in a pan of Kroil oil for a while and let the surface rust loosen up. I'd suggest using brass wool of something of that nature as opposed to 4-O steel wool on the surface. Less chance of scraching or scoring it that way.

Enjoy it, not many folks get to find something this interesting.
 
I think before I would do much cleaning or any disassembly I'd spend more time trying to get it identified in case it's a rare and valuable piece.
Years ago an old friend of mine bought an old rusted up muzzle loader at an old gas station. Got it from the guy for 12 bucks.
He was just going to get the rust off and use it as a wall hanger.
He had just started buffing it off when he found a Harpers Ferry Arsenal stamp.
A few phone calls and he found a guy to look at it.
Turned out it was an original Brown Bess flint that had been converted to percussion by the government arsenal.
I don't remember what all the dates were anymore, but it's now in the West Point Museum :)
 
I had a friend make me a pistol just like that.
It was a French Dragoon pistol.

Yours looks exactly like an English or possibly French Dragoon pistol.
Theyre both very similiar.

DO NOT clean it up.
Take it to an expert.
You probably have a relic of either the French and Indian war or the Revolutioary war.
I'm no expert, but since you live where both wars were fought, it stands to reason you might have a weapon of that era that someone snatched up and left there.
 
I think it is English and dates from c. 1740-1750, when the "banana" lockplate was in fashion. Perhaps gentle cleaning will turn up some marks. If the metal is at all salvageable, that gun may well be worth restoring.

Jim
 
Its english im farely certain of that, but take a closer look at the top brass piece in the 3rd picture down to see if there is any faint writing of anysorts ive seen a few old pieces that had a manufacterrs name in that part of the brass work.
 
That is in remarkable condition. I would NOT touch it without talking to someone from a museum/specializing in antique arms.

You could have something valuable there.
 
OK...
Thanks for the helpful comments and suggestions. I checked the bore with a dowel and it did go all the way down to the flash hole. To be double sure I shone a bright light down the bore in a dark room and could see light coming through the flash hole.

And I will find someone knowledgeable to look at it before I do anything else.

I'll report further when I find out more.

Thanks,
Tinpig
 
Check to see if the ramrod channel is drilled all the way into the stock. If it is not, then the pistol was made for use with a dummy ramrod (often part of a decorative muzzle shroud), and that would indicate a commercial gun for the Near Eastern market in the early 19th century. Such guns are more common at gun shows than original British or French flintlocks. But, the plain furniture seems to indicate that it's really a western European or American gun.
 
I Googled "english flintlock pistol 1750".

This, and this, among other things, is what I found. Look VERY similar, more intact, and definitely less rusty.

Good luck researching the find!

Regards,
Tom
 
Nice find! I became interested in old windmill restoration a few years ago and got some experience in using electolysis to force rust off metal without damage to anything but the rust. Don't remember all the details but you can easily find some references on the net. Materials consisted of a Rubbermaid tote, water, a box of 20 Mule Team (for the borax). and a 12 volt battery charger. Might be worth a read and a try. Good luck, and I'd like to see some pictures of the completed project!
 
Thanks for the suggestion, centurion. I googled that system and I'd like to try it; maybe on a few old tools or parts just to get the hang of it. Very interesting idea.

Tinpig
 
This is a great thread! Thanks for sharing with us OP, and please, I am begging you, be sure to come back and update this thread when you get more information. I cant wait to hear it.
 
Neat find.

Methinks its English. The sideplate and thumbpiece and the shape of the trigger guard reminds me of the hardware on the Bess.
 
Would you like a list of reasons why this would be an almost fantastically stupid course of action?
Click to expand...

You've hit your weekly quota for correcting me so I'll do it myself.

#1: We have no idea if it is a real gun.
#2: We have no idea as to the quality of the manufacture.
#3: We have no idea as to the condition of the gun.
#4: Exploding guns are not good.
 
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If it is to be fired, the barrel should be removed and magnafluxed.

Better yet, have someone fit a modern steel breech and barrel onto the existing stock. Save the original for display and use the modern one for shooting.
 
FWIW, using electrolysis to remove rust on a collector's firearm is not a good idea. It does the job, but leaves the metal looking like it was sandblasted and with no patina or finish at all. To most collectors, the patina (a combination of rust, sweat, oil, and plain dirt) is part of the history of the gun. It can be cleaned carefully to remove most of the latter, but cleaning it all off is a real no-no. Some folks have gotten carried away with a wire wheel and made a $50 gun out of a $1000 gun real quick.

Jim
 
Even "four aught" steel wool is going to leave an obviously messed with surface if you scrub hard enough to get the rust off.
If I could get the metal out of what is left of the stock, I'd soak it in light oil, and rub off what would come off with coarse cloth. Then hang it up to admire.
 
If you must de-rust it, I'd recommend Evaporust, available in auto parts and hardware stores.
You can drop the whole gun into it. It will remove nothing but the rust. Will not hurt the wood or brass, and you can leave it for 4 hours or 4 days.
 
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