Fred Thompson Mega-Thread (Merged)

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Which is exactly what makes this country great. We have a congress that will enact eveness, best they can, when need be. If things get to far right, or two far left, they usually end up back somewhere toward the middle. Sometimes it takes a long time, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes it does. Point being, A bill that aids in helping protect this country from successful terror plots, is a good thing. Does it have weak points, of course. Most everything does. However, I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Others will.
 
Someone asked a legitimate question about why people support Fred Thompson and people just couldn't help but jump in and start bashing him.
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Hear! Hear!

I've also noticed that any thread started about Thompson turns into a Ron Paul discussion. Paulbots won't talk about Thompson, other than CFR or his support of the war.

Whereas most Ron Paul threads consist primarily of Pualbots patting one another on the back and assuring themselves that Ron Paul really does have a chance at the nomination and the general election, despite his abysmal polling results and disasterous debate performances.

It's fun to watch, but I've stopped wasting my time addressing the 'bots directly. Titan's a great poster child for their mentality.

But it won't be long before Paul's a memory, or a long-shot 3rd party candidate. Then we'll enjoy Thompson threads that aren't constantly hijacked by the Paulbots.

July 4th, baby!
 
I jump in because it bothers me to see the kind of support he has on a board that I always thought leaned a little more libertarian/small gov - he is just a continuation of the last 8 years of policy, a policy that people have lost rights under, our country has lost face under, a policy of balooning debt and wars to 'save' select people I couldn't care less about while ignoring others living in the same conditions.

Now we have a candidate who is staunchly pro-2nd, wants to stop taking your money, and basically restore what it means to be free, and all people can do is say 'he's not electable', or worse, 'hes a kook'.

Disastrous debate performances? He made Giuliani look like a bufoon, and his support (measured in one way by cash on hand) has muliplied several times over since the second debate.
 
I jump in because...
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Thank you for driving my point home.

I never though I would say this but I might have to start putting people on my ignore list. It's sad because I like to see everyone's opinions but I am so sick of every thread being hijacked.

Please, no matter how much you love Ron Paul, stop hijacking every thread and turning it into a "Ron Paul is great, everyone else sucks" thread.
 
Now we have a candidate who is staunchly pro-2nd, wants to stop taking your money, and basically restore what it means to be free, and all people can do is say 'he's not electable', or worse, 'hes a kook'.
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Uh, some of us have lived through enough elections to figure that a 2nd Amendment candidate who can win is worth more than one who can't. The difference is approximately infinity, plus or minus a few.

So, some people think Paul is electable, whereas some think he's a kook. That's their opinion, and they have a right to it.

But if you honestly think that he can't win, then it makes perfect sense to look for a pro-2A candidate who can. Right now, that seems to be Fred Thompson. Maybe that's true, maybe not.

Realistically, we now have a Democratic Congress. A Democrat NRA F-rated President (every single Democrat but Richardson) will rubber-stamp every anti-gun bill the Congress will pass, and they WILL start in February 2009. A Republican NRA A-rated President is our chance for a veto. Our only chance.

Sorry to rain on the idealistic parade, but most of the Founding Fathers knew that liberty is always about playing a good defense. That's why there's a Bill of Rights. Gridlock might be our best hope in 2008.

Maybe we have a shot at playing offense, but usually that happens after you play defense for a little while successfully. 2010 is not so far away. Elect Clinton, or Guiliani, and there's no chance of playing offense in 2010.

Strategy matters. Gridlock is de facto more libertarian than a one-party government -- either party.
 
Uh, some of us have lived through enough elections to figure that a 2nd Amendment candidate who can win is worth more than one who can't.
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Really? Would that be the (supposedly) pro-gun president that gave us the machine gun ban or the one who said he would sign an assault weapon ban who is worth so much?

Realistically, we now have a Democratic Congress. A Democrat NRA F-rated President (every single Democrat but Richardson) will rubber-stamp every anti-gun bill the Congress will pass, and they WILL start in February 2009. A Republican NRA A-rated President is our chance for a veto. Our only chance.
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While I agree that some gun laws are on the horizon with the current congress, why is it do you think we have that current congress? The current administration (which, hey, I voted for twice, so I'm just as guilty) has sank the public perception of the Republican party so low I don't think someone with the same views down the line has a chance.

Strategy sounds all well and good, but the fight for 2nd amendment rights since the 30's has been a incremental loss after loss, so our strategy so far stinks.
 
Colt- Paul is not even my first choice. Like you my first choice is not running yet and may not run. So if you have me confused with a paulista please move along.

Many threads have been merged here but in the original thread I have not brought RP into the argument you and others have.

What annoys me are the neocon lies about RP. When they come up I will bring the truth out into the light of day as it offends my sense of honor. Certainly Paul would not likely win and would make a difficult president at best but you can't deny that he stands for freedom and liberty all day long with no exceptions.

The Patriot Act the president called unconstitutional and the Supreme Court has backed him up many times.. But he still wants it. It is anti-freedom and many provisions of been struck down by the Supreme Court. Anyway you look at it, it is wrong nine ways to Sunday and does nothing to make us safer while limiting our freedoms.

You want to give Thompson the nod that is fine. But keep in mind what he really stands for; and it is not freedom or liberty it is about authority.
 
COOL!- Armed Bear, Stage2, Erebus, Colt and Marshall all for little 'ole me? I might need to go to a real computer and go high speed for this...

Where to begin?

Stage2- I back what I say. The Patriot Act is all about authority and removing rights. If you want me to post the whole bloody mess here I will.

Armed Bear - Infinity is a concept not a number. So you can't plus or minus it any. Anyway I am glad we are all still allowed to have opinions (for now).

If the guns were the only issue I would go right on down and sign up for FT. He is better on guns than every other candidate in the race (except Paul) and is very electable. But it is not all about guns. Guns are only one right among many. I happen to have a personal attachement to them all.

Erebus- If you want to stick your head in the sand go ahead. If you want to argue the argument instead of the person that is an option also. If you want to have a Fred Thompson worship thread start your own web site. Otherwise be prepared to defend a record that is anti-freedom.
 
If the guns were the only issue I would go right on down and sign up for FT.
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Well, y'know, in a way, guns are the only real issue. 'Cause those folks we keep putting in charge of things in D.C. know that as long as you, me, and a large number of other folks here in the U.S. are armed that they can't get away with too much. Or at very least, they can't get away with too much without a real fight on their hands. A fight they don't want, and probably couldn't win.

Now granted, an all-out armed rebellion against the government isn't very likely... I won't even guess as to what it would take to cause it. But the fact is, so long as "we the people" are armed, it is a possibility, and one that can't be ignored. And our elected officials know that just as well as I do.


J.C.
 
Jamie- That is kind of like saying the government can take all money and stuff for no reason so long as they leave me my house.

These are rights we are talking about. Not privilege.
 
My grandparents lived in Austria when Hitler took over and banned guns.
My father's family narrowly missed going to the gas chambers -- while my grandfather and uncle were away, forced into the Nazi army.

For me, guns are the main issue.

You can bicker and argue 'til the cows come home about what exactly is "free speech", whether civil unions are or aren't marriages, what are appropriate tax rates, what restrictions should or shouldn't be put on abortion, etc. I come in on the libertarian side of these issues, but again, actual policy can vary a bit without us losing our ability to live as free citizens. I know this runs counter to libertarian demagoguery, and I'm a fan of demagoguery, but it's a fact.

As long as we're armed, I'm not too worried about authoritarianism. If our guns are taken away, I won't trust the most libertarian politician ever born to respect our rights. He/she WILL NOT.

Furthermore, if someone respects gun rights, he/she can't be nearly as far from an ideology of liberty as someone who wants to take them away.

And yes, I pay taxes of all sorts. I own property and pay significant property taxes. I live in a state with an obscene sales tax rate and one of the highest income tax rates, among other things. That is a liberty issue, big time. But whether a given tax rate is 21%, 23%, or 15% just isn't as significant as a population that is or is not armed.
 
Erebus- If you want to stick your head in the sand go ahead. If you want to argue the argument instead of the person that is an option also. If you want to have a Fred Thompson worship thread start your own web site. Otherwise be prepared to defend a record that is anti-freedom.
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I want to have ONE thread stay on topic. The OP asked for reasons people SUPPORTED Fred Thompson and the RP supporters immediatlly attacked Fred Thompson. I'm not into worshiping anyone and from what I have seen the only one getting worshipped is Ron Paul. I'm not defending anyone, I am pointing out that you guys hijack every thread.
 
Oh, and ArmedBear... my father's parents immigrated to the U.S. from Germany in the mid '30s, for the same reasons you mention.

So I guess I have a little more understanding of exactly how important an armed population really is than a lot of folks do.


J.C.
 
If the year were 1776, I'd vote for Ron Paul. If the US had elected leaders like Paul for the past 200+ years, it wouldn't be in the state it is.

But the US hasn't elected consititutional purists since the country's inception, which is why we're where we are today. We've drifted quite a bit.

The country is speeding down the road to socialism in 5th gear. You have to elect a 4th gear leader to slow it down. Thompson isn't perfect, but he's an electable 4th gear candidate.

Ron Paul, much as I like his ideals, is a reverse gear + emergency brake candidate. He'd strip the gear box and the drivers (voters) know it.
 
So long as we armed we are safe? Why don't you just say ''We can control him'' and get it over with.

Like most things there are gradations and degrees by which authoritarianism is judged. The Democrats taking over congress broke the elective dictatorship. But did nothing to slow the move towards police state. But are we talking about Trotskyism's permanent revolution? Stage2 should appreciate that irony more than anyone.

No, we are talking about McCarthyism with a new victim and a new playbook. And this time there is not even a political system to fight. And there won't be public hearings in front of congress either. We have secret courts for that now. So Bear tell me this;

When the next Leonard Bernstein or Tsien Hsue-Shue goes to a military tribunal for ''supporting'' terrorism and is tried with a forced confession and secret evidence will you be okay with him going to a secret prison because you still have your 1911 packed in your safe? If so you have the right candidate.

At least until they come for you anyway.
 
Straw man.

Given that all power corrupts, and that secret doings have been going on for much longer than we've been alive, and that I don't believe that any politician, no matter what he says, can or will stop human beings from doing what we do, I'd MUCH rather have us be armed than not.

See, it seems that you and a number of others here believe that there's such thing as a good government. I don't. I think government itself is a necessary evil that must be held in check by many means.

For me, it's about holding government in check as much as possible. Gridlock is a tool. Guns are a tool. There are many tools to help do this.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, NOT eternal optimism about government!

But as long as you hold out some hope for a Great Society, or Good Government, or whatever, we probalby won't see eye to eye, despite our very close agreement on our ultimate objectives. I dont believe such a thing exists. Limited government, yes. Paralyzed government, yes. But a government of people who stop lusting for power and forget that they can force our money into their pockets? Nope. Nevergonnahappen.

Quiz: How long was it between the formation of the Republic and the Whiskey Tax?

Quiz2: Did any of the Republican or Democrat frontrunners oppose the PATRIOT Act?
 
Jamie- You do not. That is why I only vote for pro RKBA people.

Colt- Mostly agree. But this is a Thompson thread not about Paul. You see the issue as socialism vs. capitalism. This is about freedom not economic theroy. Paul scares people because he would remove a lot of the government support structure and allow people to make decisions with their lives. Thompson would retain all of it and if the current leadership is a guide expand it some.
 
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