French keep safe with gun control
- Thread starter telomerase
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Boogyman
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whm1974 said:
The French saved our butts in the Revolutionary War. Gave us the Statue of Liberty, remember?
Are we to start shooting rioters in this country too? Remember Kent State? Maybe you're too young.
I just love people that think shooting everyone is an intelligent answer to all problems. They are so easy to argue with.
alan
Member
The French that "saved our butts in the revolution", which might well be the case, never mind WHY, and France today, are quite far from being the same thing.
telomerase
Member
I think you're right. Still bad enough that not one passenger in 600 had a gun.
Tom C.
Member.
IMO France is a nation of cowards. It isn’t their fault. When they helped us, it was before they took some major hits. Thousands killed in the French Revolution, Napoleonic wars, little wars of the 19th Century, millions killed in WWI, probably thousands killed in WWII, Viet Nam, Algeria. Those left are the draft dodgers and physically unfit. Unfortunately for us, they still think of themselves as a great nation.
So French are cowards...
Sure, it was terrible that a group of thugs from North Africa (possibly some of them illegal aliens, as France has this problem to a great degree also) could commandeer a train and victimize a large group of people.
But didn't something even worse than this occur in the recent history of our own country? For instance, anyone remember what happened on:
9/11/2001?????
All this condemning of France that I've been seeing on these boards proves to me how true this old saying is: "What we think we hate in others is only what we really see in ourselves."
Sure, it was terrible that a group of thugs from North Africa (possibly some of them illegal aliens, as France has this problem to a great degree also) could commandeer a train and victimize a large group of people.
But didn't something even worse than this occur in the recent history of our own country? For instance, anyone remember what happened on:
9/11/2001?????
All this condemning of France that I've been seeing on these boards proves to me how true this old saying is: "What we think we hate in others is only what we really see in ourselves."
telomerase
Member
Apparently not, only 50 or so of our airline pilots are allowed to arm themselves.
50caliber123
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Shooting rioters a good idea?
I think so. Yes, it has been done before. I read in an issue of combat arms, a guns & ammo spinoff, that Israeli military fields snipers against such threats. When a riot occurs, a marksmen armed with a supressed ruger 10/22 spots for and shoot the agitator in the crowd (the leader). The sniper aims for the groin, incapictaing, but not killing. The riots usual disperse with the crowd getting the idea. What's wrong with this? It is lethal force, but applied in a safe manner. If a riot goes unchecked, many peoples lives are at risk. I do not favor shooting all rioters, but in certain cicumstances, where a riot is out of control, this method can work. It will not work in all scenarios, however.
I think so. Yes, it has been done before. I read in an issue of combat arms, a guns & ammo spinoff, that Israeli military fields snipers against such threats. When a riot occurs, a marksmen armed with a supressed ruger 10/22 spots for and shoot the agitator in the crowd (the leader). The sniper aims for the groin, incapictaing, but not killing. The riots usual disperse with the crowd getting the idea. What's wrong with this? It is lethal force, but applied in a safe manner. If a riot goes unchecked, many peoples lives are at risk. I do not favor shooting all rioters, but in certain cicumstances, where a riot is out of control, this method can work. It will not work in all scenarios, however.
Old Dog
Member
Ah, whm1974 and Tom C.,
So, how many Frenchmen do you know personally? (By the way, if you're gonna bash a country, at least spell the name for its inhabitants correctly; although it might have been more proper to say, "France is a nation of cowards" or perhaps even, "The French are all cowards" ... anyway, I digress ... ) I know quite a few, and I wouldn't call any of 'em cowards (especially the females).
Once again ... having spent a fair amount of time in that country (and one wonderful summer, but that's another story), I would tend to agree that some of the habits of the average Frenchman might seem a bit peculiar to someone born and raised in this country (I personally prefer my cheese not to smell like my old sneakers) .... but you cannot label an entire country a "nation of cowards." Gee whiz, guys.
Always great to return home from a productive day at the range to check in on the France Bashing Forum ... er, The High Road ...
So, how many Frenchmen do you know personally? (By the way, if you're gonna bash a country, at least spell the name for its inhabitants correctly; although it might have been more proper to say, "France is a nation of cowards" or perhaps even, "The French are all cowards" ... anyway, I digress ... ) I know quite a few, and I wouldn't call any of 'em cowards (especially the females).
Once again ... having spent a fair amount of time in that country (and one wonderful summer, but that's another story), I would tend to agree that some of the habits of the average Frenchman might seem a bit peculiar to someone born and raised in this country (I personally prefer my cheese not to smell like my old sneakers) .... but you cannot label an entire country a "nation of cowards." Gee whiz, guys.
Kodiaz
member
If someone starts rioting in Fl on my street and they are running around burning people's houses and cars. I'm not shooting for the groin with a .22 I'm looking at COM from my 12 gauge. And so will my neighbors.
Boogyman
Member
50caliber123 said:
I'm not sure, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember anyone being killed in these recent riots in France. Didn't they just burn a bunch of cars? Shooting people STARTED the riots, didn't they?
And if I am wrong, and people were killed, do you really think shooting more people would solve the problem? I tend to believe that such excessive force would most likely incite even more violence, and maybe result in even more deaths.
Plus it would take one hell of a good shooter to hit someone in the groin in the middle of a moving crowd without accidently hitting an innocent bystander, perhaps someone just caught up in the confusion. This doesn't seem very practical.
Hey, I'm just as pro-gun as the next guy, but along with gun ownership comes a great responsibilty, to our rights, our sport, and to other gun enthusiasts. Going around shooting people unnecessarily or talking about shooting people as a way to solve social problems doesn't do any of us any good.
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Boogyman
Member
Kodiaz said:
Let's hope you don't go to prison for unjustified manslaughter. Hey I would probably want to shoot someone for burning my car, but as far as I know it's not justified unless your life is directly threatened. Now burning your house? If you were in it, or a member of your family was, That might be justification enough to shoot the bastards.
KriegHund
Member
Another example of gun control backfiring.
As for the french... My grandparents are from france. I equate france as i equate much of america-and for that matter almost any country in the world.
Majority of the people are great. Majority of those peoples governement is horrid.
As for the french... My grandparents are from france. I equate france as i equate much of america-and for that matter almost any country in the world.
Majority of the people are great. Majority of those peoples governement is horrid.
50caliber123
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the original riots that ran over two weeks were started because two teenagers, who were running from the police, hid in an electrical powerplant and died, from hiding there, NOT from bullets. Shooting people is never a good thing, I didn't mean to make it sound like that, but sometimes it has to be done. What happened recently was a mass-sexual assault by a group of about 30 french adolescents armed with knives on a train against its occupants. For approximately four hours the police did nothing. Doing nothing encourages violence, it does not deter. The police are suppossed to protect civilians, not be bystanders.
beerslurpy
member
Had a discussion with some friends that live part of every year in France. Apparently the police in France are the lowest paid and least desireable of all public service jobs. The job is generally looked down upon and they tend to be filled with the stupidest and least motivated of individuals. One of these friends described french police as the scrawniest and most ill fed group you ever saw. They are paid barely well enough to feed themselves.
There are also the usual problems with them not actually living in the communities that they work in, etc. You know that "5% of the population that police deal with 95% of the time?" When something goes wrong, the french police have no idea who is who, so they usually just stand back and do nothing.
French police are less than useless, yet the average french citizen has this attitude of "the goverment will protect me." The american concept of taking the iniative and dishing out an ass-whupping is just that, an american concept not found in many other places in the world.
There are also the usual problems with them not actually living in the communities that they work in, etc. You know that "5% of the population that police deal with 95% of the time?" When something goes wrong, the french police have no idea who is who, so they usually just stand back and do nothing.
French police are less than useless, yet the average french citizen has this attitude of "the goverment will protect me." The american concept of taking the iniative and dishing out an ass-whupping is just that, an american concept not found in many other places in the world.
Well, Kind of. The French actually used the Revolutionary War as a diversion to keep the British off ballance. Believe me the French didn't do it because of their love of liberty. They were just following the old saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."Boogyman said:
I used to believe that too, until just before 9/11/2001. I regret to say that I'm now of the opinion that this kind of spirit must have died long ago.
I mean, look: A plane full of people allowed just a couple of thugs, armed only with box cutters, commandeer four different airlines and--then do what they did???? Where was this initiative then?
What happened in France was atrocious, yes. And the poor police response should be very much open to scrutinity, yes. And the French government should also be accountable and take corrective measures for this lack of response, yes. And I agree that the citizens of France now need to look into what they can do to defend themselves, if their police force actually happens to be so understaffed and underfunded.
But so much for France.
What are we going to do in our own country, since we ourselves are in danger of turning into the sheep that we criticize others for being?
Crosshair
Member
We repaid the debt to France on June 6, 1944.
Boogyman
Member
Crosshair said:
Oh, ok, so now that we're "even", it's ok to trash France.
HankB
Member
And lately they've done . . . what?
Well, let's take a look at actual results in the USA. After MLK was killed, riots broke out here in a number of cities. Detroit in particular was hard hit, and large parts burned. Restrained, French-style police work was, well, ineffective.Boogeyman said:
When rioting began in Chicago, Mayor Richard J. Daley issued - with much fanfare - an order to the police department: Shoot to kill arsonists. Shoot to maim looters. (I remember this well, considering I lived there at the time.)
The rioting stopped within a few hours. Chicago didn't burn.
Boogyman
Member
That was 40 years ago. Are you saying things are the same now? That would be niave, I think.
Besides being around then myself, it's an exaggeration to say the riots stopped just like that. There was widespread rioting across the country, not only Chicago.
Look I'm all for shooting someone to protect human life. But to kill someone for destroying property is rather extreme. What the French do in their own country is their business, but burning cars is not a death sentence.
Besides being around then myself, it's an exaggeration to say the riots stopped just like that. There was widespread rioting across the country, not only Chicago.
Look I'm all for shooting someone to protect human life. But to kill someone for destroying property is rather extreme. What the French do in their own country is their business, but burning cars is not a death sentence.
Ah...the French. From the book 1491 by Charles Mann - "The Huron, in Ontario, a chargrined missionary reported, thought the French possessed "little intelligence in comparison to themselves." Europeans, Indians told other Indians, were physically weak, sexually untrustworthy, atrociously ugly and just plain smelly."
HankB
Member
Boogeyman, are you saying today's rioters have more intestinal fortitude than yesterday's? 
Look at the rioters, and who do you see? Today I see bums, thugs, low class products of the welfare entitlement mentality . . . just like it was 'way back then. Much less difference than some think.
And when you say it's an "exaggeration" to say the riots stopped just like that . . . well, they pretty much did in Chicago. No other mayor that I recall issued a similar order, so yes, the widespread rioting continued.
Elsewhere.
Look at the rioters, and who do you see? Today I see bums, thugs, low class products of the welfare entitlement mentality . . . just like it was 'way back then. Much less difference than some think.
And when you say it's an "exaggeration" to say the riots stopped just like that . . . well, they pretty much did in Chicago. No other mayor that I recall issued a similar order, so yes, the widespread rioting continued.
Elsewhere.
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