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french mas

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by sky country, Nov 24, 2017.

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  1. sky country

    sky country Member

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    looking for 7.5 french ammo please help
     
  2. tark

    tark Member

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    It's everywhere. Google "French 7.5 ammo" and you will see. You will have to buy online, of course. PPU makes it and it runs around $15 for a box of twenty, or $350 for a tin of 500 rounds. Good, reloadable brass, too.
     
    gripper and boom boom like this.
  3. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    When I had a MAS 36 30 years ago, I couldn't find a round to save my life.
     
  4. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    sky country

    I think I have seen maybe a half dozen MAS-36 rifles (actually one was a MAS-39, the folding aluminum stock paratroop version), in all the years I made the gun show circuit. Can't say I ever saw much in the way of surplus 7.5 French ammo either. As tark suggested, you can find quite a bit of ammo online at a decent price.
     
  5. JONWILL

    JONWILL Member

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    I had a few of them when they came in as surplus. Ammo was available then
    Lee has dies for it and bullets are .308 diameter

    PPU loaded ammo is available. I would shoot it and reload the cases
     
    gripper likes this.
  6. KansasSasquatch

    KansasSasquatch Member

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  7. bonza

    bonza Member

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    Most of the surplus ammo I've seen is Syrian. The PPU ammo is very good & reasonably priced.
     
  8. shuvelrider

    shuvelrider Member

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    That Syrian surplus ammo is junk, click,click,click, and no bang, I ended up pulling all the bullet for future reload projects. Also noticed three different powder types used in the cases. I would recommend to get a basic reloading press/kit and roll your own.
     
  9. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    When these rifles came into the US, ammunition, Syrian or otherwise, was not available. Initally I shot 6.5 Swedish ammunition, I think it was Norma. That was god awful expensive, but it blew the cases out. I found a cheaper brand of 6.5 Swede and also shot those which fire formed the cases. I do not believe this was dangerous as the case never pinched the bullet. If I recall correctly, the case neck was long enough that the mouth was in the throat. There was absolutely no accuracy with loaded 6.5 Swede ammunition, I saw the bullet hit a berm 25 yards away, sometimes in the middle, sometimes at the bottom, sometimes at the top.

    If you try this, coat the 6.5 cases with case lube or a grease. This is a practice Bench rest National Champions do when fireforming, it produces a perfect, stress free case. After fire forming you will have to trim the case neck, but all will be well.

    You cannot load the 7.5 French to 308 Win velocities though you can use 308 diameter bullets. The action is a rear locker and is not as rigid as front locking 308 Win rifles. I have data with pulled gunpowder, a 165 gr Corelokt going 2500 fps did not cause sticky bolt lift. However a 165 Corelokt going 2700 fps (with AA2520) gave very difficult extraction.

    While the data below is for reference only, and I will provide a caution. The older ammunition gets the higher pressure it becomes. I would keep all 140 grain loads in this rifle around 2600 fps or less.


    MAS36-51

    140 gr FMJ Syrian Ball ammo
    17-Apr-92 T ≈ 80 °F

    Ave Vel = 2724
    Std Dev = 11
    ES = 28
    Low = 2708
    High = 2736
    N = 8


    This might be of interest:


    http://web.archive.org/web/20060506045913/http://members.nuvox.net/~on.melchar/75french/sainfo.html


     
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  10. dh1633pm
    • Contributing Member

    dh1633pm Contributing Member

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    I converted some 30-06 brass to 7.5 french. I roll my own.
     
  11. boom boom
    • Contributing Member

    boom boom Contributing Member

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    Closest cousin in brass to the 7.5 French is 6.5 Swede as Slamfire says. Grafs and Sons and AIM surplus are the easiest to find 7.5 French Ammo. Grafs and Sons carries the brass off and on and Sportsmans Guide has it at times as well. Thanks Slamfire for giving chrony readings of the Syrian surplus--I'll stash it somewhere when I get the time to develop loads for my Mas 36 as redline type data.

    I
     
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  12. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    Prvi 139 grain FMJ runs $18.99 per 20 at Midway. $16.59 per 20 at Grafs. Who also list PCI 150 grain SP's at $27.99 per 20.
    7.5 x 55 case is 50 thou longer than the 7.5 MAS. And it's rim diameter is 12 thou bigger.
     
  13. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    7.5x55 Swiss and 7.5x54 French MAS can fool the naked eye. Both Case types are rimless, bottleneck
    Code:
                   7.5x55mm Swiss  7.5x54mm French 
    Bullet diameter:  0.306 in        0.309 in     
    Case:                                          
    Neck diameter     0.335 in        0.341 in     
    Shoulder diameter 0.457 in        0.445 in     
    Base diameter     0.496 in        0.482 in     
    Rim diameter      0.498 in        0.486 in     
    Rim thickness     0.065 in        0.055 in     
    Case length       2.189 in        2.126 in     
    Cartridge:                                     
    Overall length    3.059 in        2.992 in     
    
    If one owns both rifles, do keep the ammos separate. Wikipedia carries the warning: "The 7.5 French cartridge is somewhat similar in appearance to the slightly longer and thicker 7.5x55mm Swiss GP11 round but users should never try to interchange the two rounds."
    I am tempted to say if one's 7.5 French rifle will chamber 7.5 Swiss ammo, the chamber is out of spec.

    I still remember the adventure of fireforming a 5.56x45mm cartridge in a 6.8 SPC AR . . . .
     
  14. Flechette

    Flechette Member

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    I liked the MAS well before I got one. I think that it is an excellent design and which the AR-15 has a similar direct-gas impingement system that blew the gasses out of the action instead of into it like the AR.

    Yes, I know that the MAS design requires head spacing because of this and the AR does not, but really, is this such a big deal? I'd rather have to headspace once (or none if it is done at the factory) then have a dirty jam-prone fouled up action.
     
  15. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Flechette is describing the MAS-49 semi-auto which uses the same 7.5x54mm French rounds as the MAS-36 and MAS-39 bolt actions.

    Sky country never said which model he had.

    Unfortunately the only MAS-49 I have seen was one of those converted to .308 Win by the importer. Now that good 7.5 French ammo is available, that makes me sad.
     
  16. kBob

    kBob Member

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    I found the Syrian ammo available 20 years ago to be accurate....... and have a few hangfires. Some of the French Gi stuff I had had Failures to fire even after multiple strikes.

    I liked the MAS 36 rifles. I liked it better than the Russian, Italian, Japanese, Dutch, Austro Hungarian and what have you. Honestly as much as I like the K98, if I was arming a 1939 army with bolt actions I think the MAS 36 would be my choice. Of course to suggest I might like it better than the 03 or 03A3 would be sacrelidge and heresy and fortunately those beat out the MAS 36 in the bayonet department so I won't.

    Avant-Avant, a le bayonet! That would be my best Francais Militar, sorry for murdering the language.

    As for the '49, a buddy has one of the '44s, sort of a prototype '49 and really liked it. I shot the 49/56 in Europe a couple of times. I liked that it had a "real" bayonet and liked the grenade launcher (though I never launched a grenade). Most had a scope rail on the receiver much like an AK 74 and later AKMs and could be pressed into service as a designated marksman rifle (they had a much modified 36 bolt action for a true sniper rifle, even had a safety of sorts and bipod and muzzle break/stabilizer)

    Sadly I left the Infantry before the Claron Bullpup came out and the one time I had a chance to shoot one as an Artillery Officer had other duties that day. Some French Commandos I spoke with in 1975 were appalled at the move from 7.5x54 to 5.56NATO......"how will we shoot down planes and Helos?"

    Some French Special Forces types and Legion same-same used the HK 51/91 in semi auto only in 7.62NATO during the 1970's. BTW their collapsing stock was much nastier than HKs A3s but work pretty much the same way. Had a hairy but fun day on the range when a French NCO that had a Commando posting before going back to the line Infantry refused to listen to instructions during a Partnership shoot as he had shot this rifle and set his German G3 on full auto. Pucker factor of 9.6 at the time but funny to look back on and he flailed about full auto as I stood over him. He jumped up with the now empty rifle, broke the 180 rule, hurled the rifle down and pronounced it broken German first stage of fertillizer and stormed off the line without permission. But it was OK, he was, after all, French.......

    -kBob
     
  17. MikeInOr

    MikeInOr Member

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    I have had a Mas 49/56 for 25 years... and never shot it until about 3 months ago. I finally ordered some ammo (I don't remember where) and took it out. WHAT A NICE SHOOTER! I was so impressed with its handeling and accuracy. I have been seriously considering ordering some brass and a set of dies.
     
  18. giggitygiggity

    giggitygiggity Member

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    AIM Surplususually has PPU. I have a MAS-36 that I bought from a member on here. Great, soft-shooting rifle!
     
  19. Flechette

    Flechette Member

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    They are nice. I picked one up about 20 years ago for a whopping $150 new. Ironically, Century Arms started selling cases of 7.5 Fr before the rifle. When I saw the cheap cases I bought a bunch because I knew the rifles would be next!

    If you look around you can find side mount quick disconnect scope mounts. They really work! You can go from iron to glass in about a minute.
     
  20. MikeInOr

    MikeInOr Member

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    I have been keeping an eye out for one of the nicer lever locking side mount scope bases. I missed the nicer ones when they were being produced. I would rather hold out for one of the level lock reproductions that one of the screw in knob versions.

    I didn't pick up the 7.5 fr ammo before the rifles came along. I was buying other surplus arms that were on the market at the time. I always justified my purchases with "Some day this will be worth a lot of money" and tried to convince myself of this. Now I just wish ignored my family that thought I was crazy and had bought more surplus arms at that time. There were just so many different weapons available that the supply felt limitlress. Of course I don't think of my surplus arms as really worth anything... because I would have such a hard time parting with any of them. I am much better at buying than I am at selling.
     
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  21. BrocLuno

    BrocLuno Member

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    Yeah, if they move you enough to lay down the dough, they are now part of you. How do you say good bye to a part of you ...
     
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