Friend pulled a gun yesterday

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Budney you conveniently forgot this quote of mine

I don't know if he should have pulled a gun. I wasn't there. He may be in the wrong, but it doesn't matter what anyone THINKS it's what they can prove.

And you again forget the assault on the girlfriend
 
"lot of you people are forgetting that he PUSHED a woman down"

Warrants an ass-whooping, not a bullet.
You ex-marine friend is coming off as sort of a pansy.
 
If this guy had his kids with him, I'd think about making an "anonymous" call to CPS about how he assaults women and instigates fights when his children are in the boat.....
 
"lot of you people are forgetting that he PUSHED a woman down"

Warrants an ass-whooping, not a bullet.
You ex-marine friend is coming off as sort of a pansy.

He said the guy was bigger and that he did not feel he could "beat him up". If you feel better by calling someone a pansy, thats your business and insecurities. My friend is a little guy.
 
these kind of things usually end up in Plea bargains for parole. There's something about locking up honest, employed people that seems to bother judges a bit. Maybe it's got something to do with prison overcrowding.... who knows.

Your buddy needs to get a lawyer and be patient. He'll get his day where he'll have to explain that he was excited and did what he thought was right as the guy was much larger than him and seemed so enraged that he would have killed him. That's what his lawyer (at $150+ an hour) will tell him to say. Your buddy is out a LOT of money for this one...we're talking about price of a new car money here. He'll probably want to hit up his parents for some dough, that seems to be the trend right now. A DUI costs about $4000 in attorney fees here, and they only show up for court one time and help you get a diversion...this is for a first time offender that they tell "plead guilty so you can get a diversion and no jail time"

You're not going to see much of your buddy for a few days, and when he does get out he's going to bite his nails down to bare skin. You're gonna want to throw a few poker parties where he's going to do nothing but talk about his experience and how right he was to pull the gun, and how he's the hero because he could have hurt his girlfriend. Listen to it, it's part of the justification process when the judicial system tells you you've been a bad boy. What he really needs to do is sit back and let the lawyer worry, that's what they do. He needs to keep clean cut, and stay out of trouble until the trials over, then once he's on probation he'll have to stay clean and make his visit to his PO every tuesday afternoon and call him on Friday's.

Well, that's just how I've seen it happen.... your results may vary. Especially if you're in California where his gun, and probably his truck, are illegal somehow.
 
Even if a women is pushed you still can't draw down on someone unless they prove themselves deadly. A jury will not see a push as deadly.
 
He wasn't carrying. It was in his truck.

That's what I thought. So why are all these people yapping about how he's in big trouble because he was carrying w/out a permit? The listed charge is assault w/ a deadly weapon. Which would worry me a LOT more than a charge for carrying without a permit, even if that was applicable. Assault with a DW is a high level felony in most states, and can put you in prison for decades.
 
How little?
What was his training in the Marines?
How big was the other guy?
Bigger as in like Arnold Schwartzenegger, or John Candy?
 
That's what I thought. So why are all these people yapping about how he's in big trouble because he was carrying w/out a permit? The listed charge is assault w/ a deadly weapon. Which would worry me a LOT more than a charge for carrying without a permit, even if that was applicable. Assault with a DW is a high level felony in most states, and can put you in prison for decades.

Haha. These people are yapping about all sorts of stuff. I get a kick out of it. If I were to come on here and write about how some guy pulled a gun on me after I chased him down, pushed down his girlfriend, and went after him, These same people would tell me how they would have shot me and not thought twice. You just can't win with these people. lol!
 
Did you post the story to get a chearleader squad together, or were you looking for honest opinions?

If you think our questions are rough, wait til the prosecutor puts on his show.
 
1) Completely legal to carry in texas in your car if you're not doing something else illegal. You're every bit as legal carrying in your car as you are carrying in your car with a permit.
2) a person is justified in using force against
another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is
immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or
attempted use of unlawful force.
3) With witnesses and assuming no other part of the story left out, I'd predict your friend to be found innocent at worse, no-billed at best (well, even better, charges dropped, but that's real unlikely).
4) Your friend is going to spend $4K at least, probably closer to $10K for the act of defending himself from a beatin'.
 
Frank23185: the OP wasn't there. Not only did he say that, but if you look at how he's posting, it looks like he's already got his mind made up that his buddy is completely blameless, though he drew on an unarmed man.

OP: your bud's gonna be ok. See my post above... they always put the fear of God into the accused, and it turns out they always get an arm twisting....well, unless they get a public defender (or they're career criminals) or say "damn judge, ain't no thing...i'm with my boys now, shooooot" right in the middle of sentencing. That's what this guy did...
http://165.201.143.205/kasper2/offender.asp?id=51223

judge just looked him in the eye "well, how about 4 years then" original sentence was 1 year for possession of marijuana within 1000 feet of a school. Shoulda just let the judge win that, bro... he'd be out right now.
 
Franks got a vendetta I see. Sorry son, calling someone a "pansy" or "assclown" and talking about how you would beat someone up has nothing to do with the situation at hand.
 
Kelly
Frank23185: the OP wasn't there. Not only did he say that, but if you look at how he's posting, it looks like he's already got his mind made up that his buddy is completely blameless, though he drew on an unarmed man.



Me
I don't know if he should have pulled a gun. I wasn't there. He may be in the wrong, but it doesn't matter what anyone THINKS it's what they can prove.
 
As far as this person, he needs to get a lawyer YESTERDAY. And he needs to proceed with caution. The Texas criminal justice system is roughly on par with Yemen's.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Just a WEE bit of overstatement, there.

What county was this in? That can make a big difference in how this plays out.

Springmom, apparently living in Yemen, much to my surprise....:neener:
 
The focus on carrying illegally is because he illegally carried, the deadly weapon, with which he assaulted the person. B could not have happened without A.

If you carry, you must be assuming the potential for conflict. If you assume the potential for conflict, you assume you may have to draw. If you draw, you must assume LEO involvement. If you do all of these, you must assume going to jail.

And so, going back to my question...

I think we addressed this about 6 times now. It is getting redundant. The gun was in his truck. Legal in TX.
 
No vendetta here, friend, just being the devils advocate.

I am looking at this from a jurors standpoint. Sorry to come off so harsh. I do wish your friend the best, if for no other reason, than that he is your friend.

From an earlier post regarding the law:
"if a reasonable person in the actor's situation would not have retreated"

He better hope the jury is full of reasonable folks.

BTW, I am not your Son. Not that you wouldn't make a swell dad...
 
Budney you conveniently forgot this quote of mine
I don't know if he should have pulled a gun. I wasn't there. He may be in the wrong, but it doesn't matter what anyone THINKS it's what they can prove.
I didn't forget it; I cited two cases in which you were clearly getting defensive.

And you again forget the assault on the girlfriend
I didn't forget that either. I'm telling you that if you provoke someone by saying something, giving him a dirty look, cutting him off, stepping on his shoe, or any other innocuous thing, and he assaults you, you may well get in trouble for defending yourself with deadly force.

I realize the guy may be a nutso who blew things way out of proportion. I realize that the response may have been excessive. And I'm telling you that none of that changes the fact that if you did anything to contribute to the conflict, you are liable to find yourself in big trouble.

If you simply say, "yo mamma!" and he responds by savagely beating you, and you then shoot him, you may go away for a long time. It stops being self-defense the minute you in any way contribute to provoking or escalating the conflict.

That's self-defense 101, at least depending on the laws in your jurisdiction.

--Len.
 
tnieto2004: you ask for advice about what's going to happen to your buddy and you're getting offended. I think you just wanted comfort and to be justified for your buddy's behavior, you seem very opposed to anyone leaning towards your buddy making a mistake.

If you want us to commiserate with you about your friends unfortunate circumstance, I'd open a different thread and just tell us about the situation without asking "Has anyone had a situation like this happen? He is a retired marine and I am wondering if that will help him or not?"

Lord knows I'm glad I wasn't put in his situation, but defending him in here isn't what you need right now.... you should be defending your buddy to himself, he needs everyone else's validation that he's not a bad guy right now. He's served overseas, he's got a lot more to be proud of than I do, and I'd feel pretty darned lousy if I was in the slammer charged with a felony.
 
Pulling the weapon is questionable and a grey area to be decided by the court in this case. Possessing the weapon to pull in the first place however is a clear crime. So at minimum he is guilty of one crime, and potentialy more.

Does that qualify under the "using a firearm in the commission of a crime" type legislation? You know, the kind we quickly support picturing ourselves being tough on some guy robbing someone, and in reality making firearm defense more risky and impractical.



If I thought I was just gonna get beat up a little then no, I wouldn't pull.
This is something I do have mixed opinions on. This is because the human body is quite vulnerable. Possessing a firearm and being rendered dazed or stunned, or being knocked unconscious allows anything in your possession to be taken and used by the attacker. It is pretty common for thugs after beating someone up to go through thier pockets/ pat them down. Also if he was dazed or knocked unconscious and fell into the water, drowning is a very likely possibility. The guy showed a willingness to push his girlfriend out of the way, what makes you think he would allow anyone to aid him later, or attack someone else taking the attention away from the drowning man and keeping it on himself?

Many altercations start as a fight, someone pulls something out, picks something up, etc and it is not a simple "get beat up a little".
Here is a video of a big guy challenging another guy who picks up a piece of trash (brake rotor) from the ground and the big guy gets knocked unconscious. While unconscious he is killed.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a3a774027a
It could have just as easily been a rock, a tool or item on a dock, or any number of items people are surrounded with, something pulled quickly from a waistband, or just a solid punch. One good hit and your ability to determine or guide the outcome of the event, is over. Your safety will then be at the discretion of the attacker, and witnesses.
Notice all the cars in the video driving by, obviously seeing as one pulls over and watches. Risk themselves and confront the guy? No.
Think it would be much different on most streets in America if you get knocked out? Probably not. Unless a witness stops them, how much damage done, or whether you die will be at the discretion of the attacker. You won't be able to judge the situation and progressively alter the level of force you feel is necessary.
 
All said and done, I wouldn't want to be in his position. If he really feared for his life he did the right thing. If not, the law has a way of taking care of that.
 
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