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From My Cold, Dead Hands.........................

Discussion in 'Legal' started by 2dogs, Jan 1, 2003.

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  1. 2dogs

    2dogs Member

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    Last edited: Jan 1, 2003
  2. Blackcloud6

    Blackcloud6 Member

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    And the point is?
     
  3. dadman

    dadman Member

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    I believe the point is that we as a whole probally won't stand for our rights. We'll let it evolve further into a privalege, then see some firearm enforcement ala England and Australia.
    Heston himhawed around during an interview when AK's were brought up.
     
  4. 2dogs

    2dogs Member

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    And the point is?

    Alright, my intent was to just have the post, no replies at all, and let everyone who viewed it decide for him/her self what the point was.

    But you had to ask.:uhoh:

    There seem to be a few, if not several camps in the "pro gun" population. We all probably fit into one or more of these camps to a certain extent.

    One group are gunowners who don't have a clue as to what the right to bear arms means, nor do they seem to care. They go hunting or shooting and as long as they can do that they seem quite content to let this country and it's freedoms slip into a cesspool. In all likelihood there is no hope for this group- just hand em another beer.

    Another group are politically aware, probably realists, involved citizens to a certain extent- they vote, pay attention to issues, write letters, call congessman etc. They believe in this country and they believe in what it stands for. They also believe that there is a right way to bring change (laws, voting) and a wrong way (anything illegal). They also believe in not rocking the boat, in not using "inflamatory" language or "radical slogans and speeches" so as not to appear outside of the mainstream- and they do not want others to speak out, for the same reason. These are for the most part good folks who are being made to look like fools and "useful idiots" by the Communist regime which now controls this country (poetic license, folks). The Communist regime has made a mockery of our laws, country and Constitution, by passing one inane law after another to the point where you can't sneeze without breaking one- and they rely on the docility of the "useful idiots" to remain in power.

    A third group consists mainly of dreamers. They dream of having a country returned to it's natural state, freedom, to the largest extent possible. They use the same "radical slogans and speech" that the people who founded this country used. They are not embarrassed by people like Patrick Henry and Thomas Paine because they believe with all their hearts that those men were magnificent and had a vision unparalleled since then. They are not willing to be silenced, they don't care who doesn't like their speeches, they will not go along and will not be "useful idiots". They will be pushed only so far, will follow the laws and exhaust all legal means of redress of grievances- and will not back down and wait until the Communists (fascists, socialists, aliens or whoever the h*ll else is in charge of the game) hand them their shovel and tell them to start digging. What these people need to decide is when the game is up- when are there so many laws that you can no longer breathe let alone own a gun. Because we are quickly devolving to the point where the only thing you have left is your gun- no dignity or pride, no freedom, no country and no reason to live.

    We aren't there yet, this is still the best country in the world and it is still peopled by many fine folks. But time is running out. The pot is boiling slowly- do you want to be the frog who doesn't know when to jump out?

    Not one person on this board can say for certainty what he/she will do when "the knock on the door" comes. It hasn't come yet. But speaking for my self, I'm shouting from the rooftops baby, as often, as loudly and as obnoxiously as I can- before the next sound we hear is a shot heard round the world.

    End of one man's rant.:banghead: :cuss: :ar15:
     
  5. 2dogs

    2dogs Member

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    And come on, you have to admit that cartoon is funny. Especially the play on the "damned dirty apes" line.:D :D
     
  6. Neal Bloom

    Neal Bloom Member

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    Loved the cartoon. Knew a couple people who quit the NRA over Heston's view on AK's.
     
  7. GinSlinger

    GinSlinger Member

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    2dogs

    I think there may be another type of gun owner. Those that think they should be allowed to own a gun, but that guns as a whole should be harder (if not near impossible) to get. I have met two benchrest shooters who plead that handguns should be bad, that the do no good, they serve no purpose. They fail to even see their fellow competitors (in the handgun catagories) as worthy of owning guns. These owners will eventually be the poster children of the antis.

    GinSlinger
     
  8. AZTOY

    AZTOY Member

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    I think the cartoon is right on. We need a guy who is not scared of real guns. The fact is the Brand bunch can care less about black power guns. :banghead:

    The Brady bunch want's are AK-47 and AR-15. :fire:
     
  9. Capital Punishment

    Capital Punishment Member

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    [​IMG]

    Correction; they want them all.
     
  10. 2dogs

    2dogs Member

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    GinSlinger

    I think in other times they would be termed "collaborators"..

    Capital Punishment

    Great poster, where'd you get it?
     
  11. Capital Punishment

    Capital Punishment Member

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    It was sitting on my hard drive, i forget where i got it. Someone will probably remember, though.
     
  12. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Sorry I dont consider myself, or any other decent normal US gunowners to be "fools" or "useful idiots".

    I do consider that the "cold dead fingers" bunch are as dangerous to freedom as the Hillaryites, if not more so.
     
  13. 2dogs

    2dogs Member

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    Sorry I dont consider myself, or any other decent normal US gunowners to be "fools" or "useful idiots".
    I do consider that the "cold dead fingers" bunch are as dangerous to freedom as the Hillaryites, if not more so.

    Please define "decent, normal US gunowners". And I did not say that they were fools or useful idiots, but rather that they were being made to appear to be. And to the extent that any of us play along, myself included, we are allowing those who rule us (make no mistake, they do) to remain in power, unbowed, and that is the definition of a useful idiot.

    As for the second point, I do not see any similiarity at all- the "cold dead fingers" bunch (I would assume then that includes all NRA members, or at least the ones willing to let Charlton Heston speak for them) want to expand freedom- the Hitlaryites want to diminish freedom. Seems like two polar opposites to me.

    :banghead:
     
  14. Blackcloud6

    Blackcloud6 Member

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    I'm missing something. What is this Heston and AK thing?
     
  15. AZTOY

    AZTOY Member

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    Blackcloud6[​IMG]
     
  16. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    He once made the comment that no-one should be allowed to own an AK, or no-one needs an AK, or something. Enough for anti-gunners to say "Even the NRA thinks these evil tools of destruction should be banned!"

    Yet another reason to give your $$ to other organizations.
     
  17. Blackcloud6

    Blackcloud6 Member

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    "He once made the comment that no-one should be allowed to own an AK, or no-one needs an AK, or something. Enough for anti-gunners to say "Even the NRA thinks these evil tools of destruction should be banned!"

    OK, When did he do so? How long ago? Does he still have that opinion? I bet he doesn't.
     
  18. Capital Punishment

    Capital Punishment Member

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    Lets also remember, the old mans mental and physical health isnt what it used to be.....what is it that he has again? Parkinsons? or something.
     
  19. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    A quick Google search came up with this:
    He's far from being a firm supporter of the 2nd Amendment. His "COld Dead, Hands" speech sounded good, but you didn't see him carrying an AR-15 there, or even an M1 Garand. No practical battle implement whatsoever -- he chose to speak those words while holding an antique.
     
  20. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    I guess a more succinct way of saying what I said earlier is this: Heston seems to support the private ownership of arms only so far "sporting arms." He's got nothing against your .22 target guns, or nice Perazzi shotguns, or even more mundane hunting arms provided they're not black plastic...

    As far as ugly, un-PC handguns and "assault rifles" go though -- from what I've seen they're as afraid of them as HCI/MMM/Whatever-they-are-this-week.

    Which is a comment that should bring in some flames -- I know my lack of support of the NRA is a minority view.
     
  21. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    Well there's some of us who are absolutely dedicated to full restoration of our rights, but understand that to get the first steps going, we must not "scare the sheeple".

    My opinion: If Heston had raised an AR-15 or similar, it would have been a setback.

    Does anybody here think that opinion makes me a "traitor to the cause"?
     
  22. QuickDraw

    QuickDraw Member

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    Jim,
    I think your right.The media has pounded
    the AR=bad for so long people would have freaked!
    The antique is a little easier for the sheeple to swallow.
    Its like a big chess game.

    QuickDraw
     
  23. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    Exactly!

    And not everybody is smart enough to play chess.

    The worst part is that a good percentage of the NRA membership would have freaked.
     
  24. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't know that I'd care much if I was under the impression that the NRA was actually trying to support our gun rights. From what I've seen though -- they're not.

    From my recollection (and call me on it if my memory is failing):
    • The NRA supported the NFA, didn't they?
    • What about GCA '68?
    • How about what happened in '86 re: manufacture and licensing of new automatic weapons?
    • Did the NRA end up supporting or opposing the Brady Bill after all the backroom deals were made?
    • Does the NRA seem more likely to give high rankings to those most likely to "fight the good fight," or to those who have a bad voting record but are most likely to win?
    • If you're a local activist working on CCW reform in your own area, are you relieved or disturbed when you hear an NRA rep is stepping into the fray?

    Now we've got a situation where the NRA's been tagged as that radical, unrealistic, far-right, no-compromise gun rights organization. We're in a spot where we lose leverage in arguments if the NRA steps up in support of the next step in gun control -- "the NRA supports this for God's sake -- if they can get behind it..."

    The criticism over the musket was on-target. The musket is as relevent in today's debate over the 2nd amendment as a quill pen is to a first-amendment discussion. If the NRA won't try to make that point, and people continue to give so much money to the NRA that they're the leading gun-rights group out there, then we're lost.

    I'm sorry if the arguments make some people uncomfortable. If we never make them uncomfortable, we never challenge the current anti-gun climate. If we never challenge it, we're lost.

    Just as an aside...If avoiding "radical" statements like suggesting than an AR-15 is the closest thing to to the muskets our forefathers fought with a couple of centuries back was a good strategic move, when, exactly, will it be good strategy to start arguing these points? Or is a strategy of appeasement in the hope of delaying the anti's as long as possible the best we can hope for?

    Will my grandkids be able to arm themselves with current defensive technology?
     
  25. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm guessing this was directed at me. I've beat West Point grads on long field problems. Care to fire up a game? :neener:
     
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