Dr_B
member
I carry the Shield or 5 shot revolver depending on what I'm doing. You can learn to shoot either with practice. Nothing wrong with 5 shot revolvers. Anyone who has one they aren't happy with can PM me. I'm happy to take in strays.
Frustrated with five shot revolvers
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David E
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I also like to use the sights, which doesn't slow you down, once you get the hang of it.
Except that it's not. The GUN can do it, so it's a matter of getting the shooter skilled enough to do it with the gun. 25 FEET isn't far at all, so it's prudent practice at that distance and beyond.
Hangingrock
Member
Yesterday I watched a DVD titled Logical Solutions for Concealed Carry from Clint Smith (Thunder Ranch- Training Series). He made certain relevant points in regards to selection and usage.
As for myself over the decades I've dabbled in J fame snub nose revolvers. As of this writing I'm more committed to semiautomatic pistols not the miniature/compact variety thou.
I've shot snub nose revolvers enough to realize the virtues and limitations. The last one I used was a early production M640 with the "Tested For +P+" lettering in the frame cylinder widow opening. Follow on production eliminated that lettering sequence as there was no industry standard for +P+.
Like all tools one must learn how to master the tool and or know the limitations there of and one's own abilities in usage of it.
As for myself over the decades I've dabbled in J fame snub nose revolvers. As of this writing I'm more committed to semiautomatic pistols not the miniature/compact variety thou.
I've shot snub nose revolvers enough to realize the virtues and limitations. The last one I used was a early production M640 with the "Tested For +P+" lettering in the frame cylinder widow opening. Follow on production eliminated that lettering sequence as there was no industry standard for +P+.
Like all tools one must learn how to master the tool and or know the limitations there of and one's own abilities in usage of it.
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Felt recoil is subjective. I don't find the recoil of a J-Frame in .38 Special to be painful. It's noticeable, but not painful. Perhaps you should try different grips. Having a grip that's too small or the wrong shape may increase felt recoil. Having a grip that's too big may also increase felt recoil.
NoirFan
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Here is how you get better at shooting a snub revolver.
Go to the range with a shooting partner. Have your partner load some number of rounds into the gun, that number being less than five.
When you hit the empty chambers, any flinch will be easy to see. It will embarrass you into getting better
Go to the range with a shooting partner. Have your partner load some number of rounds into the gun, that number being less than five.
When you hit the empty chambers, any flinch will be easy to see. It will embarrass you into getting better
cwmoss
Member
I had a 360pd, loved it because of the weight or lack thereof and ease of cocealment. Then sold it to my cousin because she wanted something to carry that was superlight. She is so happy with it, even shooting +p's. I am on the lookout far another.
cwmoss
cwmoss
The issues you're having boil down to a lack of focus on the fundamentals, I feel.
That won't be changed by switching platforms. You'll be a bad semiauto shooter at best if you're a terrible revolver shooter.
I disagree with the idea that you'll shoot better under more stress due to not perceiving the recoil.
I also disagree that only 3 yard and under proficiency "counts." I recently took a private one day course with a great instructor to get proficient with my LCR. We shot out to about 15-20 yards and also did lots of work at 7 yards with a reduced scale target.
You're considering blowing about a grand by getting two semi autos to solve this issue. That's before the cost of holsters, practice ammo, and enough premium defensive ammo to reliability-check each gun. So realistically 1.2-1.5 grand for a marginal improvement at best.
Why not spend 200-300 on some instruction that will allow you to become proficient and confident with the revolver? That could be a one day private lesson or even a two day group class in some parts of the country.
That will go further toward making you a better shooter, and the fundamentals you take away will provide benefit even if you switch platforms in the future.
You should also develop and utilize a (safe and structured) dryfire regimen to hone and maintain skills before or after the class. If the instructor is good he/she will have tips. It's free and with a centerfire revolver you can press that trigger thousands or tens of thousands of times per month to work those fundamentals. You will save even more money that way.
That won't be changed by switching platforms. You'll be a bad semiauto shooter at best if you're a terrible revolver shooter.
I disagree with the idea that you'll shoot better under more stress due to not perceiving the recoil.
I also disagree that only 3 yard and under proficiency "counts." I recently took a private one day course with a great instructor to get proficient with my LCR. We shot out to about 15-20 yards and also did lots of work at 7 yards with a reduced scale target.
You're considering blowing about a grand by getting two semi autos to solve this issue. That's before the cost of holsters, practice ammo, and enough premium defensive ammo to reliability-check each gun. So realistically 1.2-1.5 grand for a marginal improvement at best.
Why not spend 200-300 on some instruction that will allow you to become proficient and confident with the revolver? That could be a one day private lesson or even a two day group class in some parts of the country.
That will go further toward making you a better shooter, and the fundamentals you take away will provide benefit even if you switch platforms in the future.
You should also develop and utilize a (safe and structured) dryfire regimen to hone and maintain skills before or after the class. If the instructor is good he/she will have tips. It's free and with a centerfire revolver you can press that trigger thousands or tens of thousands of times per month to work those fundamentals. You will save even more money that way.
Deltaboy1984
Member
Try different grips.I been shooting a OLD Charter Undercover and I get 2 inch groups at 21 feet.
As others have noted, a snub-nosed DA revolver is probably the hardest type of handgun to shoot well. The short sight radius, small grips and heavy trigger pull (especially in comparison to the total weight of the gun) make it a tough gun to hit with unless you've done a lot of practicing.
Smith used to make a version of the Chief's Special with a 3" barrel, and if somebody forced me to carry a J-frame that's the one I would want--after I added some decent grips, or at least a T-adapter.
The height of a grip, from top to bottom, is the second-most important factor in comfort and shootability. First on the list is the length of the grip from front to back. See if you can find an aftermarket grip that increases the front-to-back length. Extra length from top to bottom wouldn't hurt, but you'll have to decide whether or not that will work with your carry method.
As an aside, I'm dead-set against both pocket carry and purse carry. Both make access too slow, and in the case of purse carry it's too easy for a woman to be separated from her purse at the wrong moment.
The other thing you need are five snap caps. Sometimes the most effective practice you can do doesn't happen at the range. Trigger control is probably your biggest challenge, and you can get a lot more repetitions firing dry in the garage than you can at the range.
You're probably also flinching a bit due to the harsh recoil of these extra-light snubs that are so fashionable now, and dry-firing is the best cure for a flinch. If Pavlov had rung the bell a bunch of times without feeding the dogs, they would have stopped salivating when he rang the bell. It's the same with flinching: pull the trigger enough times without getting all the noise and recoil, and the flinch goes away.
Smith used to make a version of the Chief's Special with a 3" barrel, and if somebody forced me to carry a J-frame that's the one I would want--after I added some decent grips, or at least a T-adapter.
The height of a grip, from top to bottom, is the second-most important factor in comfort and shootability. First on the list is the length of the grip from front to back. See if you can find an aftermarket grip that increases the front-to-back length. Extra length from top to bottom wouldn't hurt, but you'll have to decide whether or not that will work with your carry method.
As an aside, I'm dead-set against both pocket carry and purse carry. Both make access too slow, and in the case of purse carry it's too easy for a woman to be separated from her purse at the wrong moment.
The other thing you need are five snap caps. Sometimes the most effective practice you can do doesn't happen at the range. Trigger control is probably your biggest challenge, and you can get a lot more repetitions firing dry in the garage than you can at the range.
You're probably also flinching a bit due to the harsh recoil of these extra-light snubs that are so fashionable now, and dry-firing is the best cure for a flinch. If Pavlov had rung the bell a bunch of times without feeding the dogs, they would have stopped salivating when he rang the bell. It's the same with flinching: pull the trigger enough times without getting all the noise and recoil, and the flinch goes away.
I agree with you concerning purse carry, but often pocket carry a small revolver in low threat environments for two reasons.
In a situation where I am uneasy I can stand with my hand in my side pants' pocket, with my fingers/hand gripping the gun and trigger finger along the side of the guard. Drawing is not slow as 1/3 or more of the full draw stroke is already accomplished. At the same time I’m doing nothing that would be construed as brandishing or threatening.
In hot weather I don’t have to worry about a covering garment. A t-shirt or untucked button-down are not always appropriate.
Yep. I've done this.
Here is how you get better at shooting a snub revolver.
Go to the range with a shooting partner. Have your partner load some number of rounds into the gun, that number being less than five.
When you hit the empty chambers, any flinch will be easy to see. It will embarrass you into getting better
You can also do the Russian roulette drill per instructor Claude Werner. It even works solo.
Start with a full cylinder of live ammo. From low ready or high compressed ready acquire the sights and fire one round.
Using proper technique release the cylinder. Spin it and using proper technique, close it.
Press the trigger. Follow through and stay on the sights. If you don't get a bang, press the trigger again, until you've fired a live round.
Release, spin, repeat (fire one live round each time) until the cylinder is empty. Reload and do the drill again.
Lots of trigger presses and dummy strikes for every 5 live rounds, and it teaches confidence and follow-through and staying focused on the sights very nicely.
herrwalther
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conw said:
Similar to loading in dummies. Nice tip, I like it. I will have to remember that technique when I get a revolver.
Hangingrock
Member
There are uncounted numbers of as an example S&W J frame snub nose revolvers stored in dresser sock drawer. Never sees the light of day until the owner is no longer among the living and the spouse decides to be rid of it.
At one time where I previously resided I had membership in three sportsmen's clubs. The larger of the three hand in excess of 1500 senior members.
I prevailed on the range committee person to setup 3 yard & 7 yard firing lines on a segment of the pistol range. My rational was that the 50 yard line was seldom used if at all and the 25 yard line was used but shooters on the range would at times come to an agreement to move closer to the targets forward of the firing line.
I very seldom every saw fixed sight snub nose revolvers being shot. This was in a shall issue state. Just my observation.
Where I currently reside I am a land owner member of an association that is promenaded with hand gun shooting and associated matches. As an observer seldom seen if at are snub nose revolvers.
At one time where I previously resided I had membership in three sportsmen's clubs. The larger of the three hand in excess of 1500 senior members.
I prevailed on the range committee person to setup 3 yard & 7 yard firing lines on a segment of the pistol range. My rational was that the 50 yard line was seldom used if at all and the 25 yard line was used but shooters on the range would at times come to an agreement to move closer to the targets forward of the firing line.
I very seldom every saw fixed sight snub nose revolvers being shot. This was in a shall issue state. Just my observation.
Where I currently reside I am a land owner member of an association that is promenaded with hand gun shooting and associated matches. As an observer seldom seen if at are snub nose revolvers.
As someone who has done a LOT of dry fire and dummy drills I found it really beneficial nonetheless. Very confidence inspiring. I can only imagine for a brand new shooter it would teach a lot of the truisms we repeat (stay on the sights, follow through, smooth press, surprise break, etc).
Camsdaddy, I agree. Claude Werner does a great job balancing established protocol and drills with a unique practical sensibility to instruct regular people. If you ever have the luck of encountering him in person take advantage of his abilities as an instructor! The man's forte seems to be equipping "low dedication personnel" with gunfighting skills that work under pressure.
HB
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I'm a broke college kid and when I shoot anything over a .22 more than half my "shooting" is dry fire, even at the range. Especially in preparation for deer season, I find loading 1 round in the cylinder then spinning it and closing it with my eyes shut helps trigger control a lot. You don't know which pull of the trigger will fire the round so flinch is minimized. At the end of the session I fire a couple full cylinders to make sure I got it right. This is with a single action but the same applies to D/A revolvers.
I also like to shoot my glock 17 but it doesn't lend itself to dry fire as well. With a loaded magazine inserted the pistol feels entirely different. I need to buy/whip up some dummies.
HB
I also like to shoot my glock 17 but it doesn't lend itself to dry fire as well. With a loaded magazine inserted the pistol feels entirely different. I need to buy/whip up some dummies.
HB
Chilibreath
Member
Opinion from an old LEO firearms instructor: some handguns are fun to shoot and they are naturals for plinking, some are not. Generally speaking the bigger and faster the bullet is, and the smaller/lighter the gun is the less fun it is to shoot, and the harder it is to hold a good group for most shooters. Then again snubby (2-inch barrel) revolvers are not meant for plinking, they are meant for very close-in work. Ham-fisted guys will probably do better with a larger aftermarket grip than what comes from the factory, and a grip adapter usually helps to fill the hand a bit more. Some S&W snubby revolvers now come with a very nice hard rubber grip that fits the hand better and feels good. Keep in mind that for most shooters the pinky finger will curl under the grip not on it.
Again, and at the sake of sounding repetitive, snubby revolvers are self defense guns meant to do their job with the 5 or 6 shots in the cylinder, usually .38 or .357 caliber. If you are new to guns in general and revolvers in particular, it helps to shoot about a box of ammo through your snubby to get used to the feel and the recoil. I would suggest starting with standard velocity wadcutters (reloads) if possible, and then work up to full power loads; but keep in mind the fun goes out of the session very quickly for many shooters if full power loads (+P or .357) are used up front from the get go. After the initial break-in and familiarization, a short refresher session at the range once or twice a year for most folks would probably be a good idea for the sake of safety as well as confidence building, a little more often for professionals.
Finally, there may be slicker looking personal defense guns out there that hold more ammo than a snubby with all manner of buttons and electronic sighting devices, but for my money nothing beats the “yank and crank” ability of 2-inch revolver. When push comes to shove and the time for talking is over, I will (and do) put my trust in a well made 2-inch revolver every time, but then (as my wife is fond of telling me) I’m old and set in my ways … and my response to her is: it’s no accident that I got this far and this old!
Again, and at the sake of sounding repetitive, snubby revolvers are self defense guns meant to do their job with the 5 or 6 shots in the cylinder, usually .38 or .357 caliber. If you are new to guns in general and revolvers in particular, it helps to shoot about a box of ammo through your snubby to get used to the feel and the recoil. I would suggest starting with standard velocity wadcutters (reloads) if possible, and then work up to full power loads; but keep in mind the fun goes out of the session very quickly for many shooters if full power loads (+P or .357) are used up front from the get go. After the initial break-in and familiarization, a short refresher session at the range once or twice a year for most folks would probably be a good idea for the sake of safety as well as confidence building, a little more often for professionals.
Finally, there may be slicker looking personal defense guns out there that hold more ammo than a snubby with all manner of buttons and electronic sighting devices, but for my money nothing beats the “yank and crank” ability of 2-inch revolver. When push comes to shove and the time for talking is over, I will (and do) put my trust in a well made 2-inch revolver every time, but then (as my wife is fond of telling me) I’m old and set in my ways … and my response to her is: it’s no accident that I got this far and this old!
Deaf Smith
Member
HB,
Back when I was in collage, 40 or so year ago, I was a broke collage student to!
Ammo was expensive and while I had a Colt Commander .45 I sure didn't shoot it much, even though I was a Cooper fan and did some walk-n-draw competition.
You do what you can to gain the skills. Dry fire, dummy gun manipulation, .22 lr (well it WAS cheaper back then), and other things to gain skill.
I fell your pain!
Deaf
amd6547
Member
I pocket carry a Model 38 Bodyguard Airweight. I use the original wood grips with a Tyler T-grip (I tried some Hogue rubber boot grips...didn't like them).
At my club, we have 10" inch round steel plates at 40yds, and I can hit them without trying too hard.
With a stiff SD load, sure it kicks. But, I hold high on the grip and use a firm hold, so it doesn't bother me.
I shot it last week, and part of the time, I shot Federal 158gn round nose lead...the first time I ever shot The old RNL load.
It shot very well...accurate, and soft shooting, too.
I have a four inch 1957 Model 10, and I can't wait to put some of RNL through it.
At my club, we have 10" inch round steel plates at 40yds, and I can hit them without trying too hard.
With a stiff SD load, sure it kicks. But, I hold high on the grip and use a firm hold, so it doesn't bother me.
I shot it last week, and part of the time, I shot Federal 158gn round nose lead...the first time I ever shot The old RNL load.
It shot very well...accurate, and soft shooting, too.
I have a four inch 1957 Model 10, and I can't wait to put some of RNL through it.
OrangePwrx9
Member
I'm frustrated with 'em too
Not much fun target shooting at the range when the Model 37 only delivers 6" groups at 25 yards. How's anyone going to brag about that?
The SP101 does a little better...maybe 4" or 5"...IF I can nail down the sight picture.
Firing single action doesn't help much, either.
Hurts to look at a target and see only a couple of strays in the black.
Not much fun target shooting at the range when the Model 37 only delivers 6" groups at 25 yards. How's anyone going to brag about that?
The SP101 does a little better...maybe 4" or 5"...IF I can nail down the sight picture.
Firing single action doesn't help much, either.
Hurts to look at a target and see only a couple of strays in the black.
Deaf Smith
Member
Ah but a good snub, when the user is well trained, is an excellent close range protection gun.
Yep they are both mine. Both, being stainless steel, are a bit heavy. But either one, in a IWB in the appendix position, can be carried all day. One a .38, the other a .357.
They will fire all five shots regardless if limp wristing, regardless of how close they are held to the body, regardless of if you push the muzzle into your opponent, and regardless if fired inside the pocket or coat. And then, unlike their plastic rivals, they can be used as a sap.
And they are hard to take out of ones hand (disarming attack), unlike larger guns.
Deaf
Yep they are both mine. Both, being stainless steel, are a bit heavy. But either one, in a IWB in the appendix position, can be carried all day. One a .38, the other a .357.
They will fire all five shots regardless if limp wristing, regardless of how close they are held to the body, regardless of if you push the muzzle into your opponent, and regardless if fired inside the pocket or coat. And then, unlike their plastic rivals, they can be used as a sap.
And they are hard to take out of ones hand (disarming attack), unlike larger guns.
Deaf
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