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Full scale RIOT at Indiana Prison (video)

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by RIDE, Apr 24, 2007.

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  1. RIDE

    RIDE Member

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  2. LarryS.

    LarryS. Member

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    Thanks for posting the link....Fox News radio just reported there was NO truth to the story that some of the rioting convicts had escaped the confines of the outer fence.......developing:fire:
     
  3. Crunker1337

    Crunker1337 Member

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    Crazy.

    Where's SWAT when you need 'em? Oh wait they're hiding in their vans going over their strategy; and when everything cools down they'll bust in MP-5s ready and collect evidence.
     
  4. NM234

    NM234 Member

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    what I don't get, seeing that most prisons are in isolated areas, and these prisoners do not be confined to where they will get a lethal dose, is why they don't use the tactic used in the russian hostage crisis. From what I heard they pumped a gaseous opiod into the air to render people unconcious (an opiod being used because the effects are easily reversed using narcan (naltrexone) once they are tied up) and then tie them up. Also even if they do recieve what would be a lethal dose if you move in quickly with the narcan you can revive them easily. Either that or tear gas, but there can still be some form of struggle when tear gas is used, its better to knock em out completely. I would think such tactics would be ready to be put in place considering it is a prison, also this would not be inhumane (although the people who started/participated in the riot should be punished, but it should be humane punishment. Even if they aren't humane, we're supposed to be better than them morally) and would be highly effective. And if it is near a populated area have everyone move a few blocks away quickly then do it. Instead they will probably watch for hours.
     
  5. NM234

    NM234 Member

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    typo above, these prisoners do not seem to be confined to where they will get a lethal dose.
     
  6. Phaetos

    Phaetos Member

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  7. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    Enough of the bashing. It gets old, and frankly, childish and annoying.
     
  8. BigStick

    BigStick Member

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    In situations like this I wish our law enforcement would take off the kid gloves and be willing to use lethal force. Make an announcement on the PA system giving prisoners who are not participating in the riot an opportunity to go back to their cells, surrender, etc. Then have the SWAT team bust in there and blow away anyone who continues to resist. It would definitely save on the costs of incarceration and I'm sure it would greatly reduce the risk of similar events in the future.
     
  9. calsdad

    calsdad Member

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    You have got to be kidding me - are you guys a bunch of liberals?

    I just watched the video - where is the rioting? I saw a few guys milling around on the basketball court - one actually had a basketball he was dribbling every now and then. A bunch of others seem to be casually walking around - on the sidewalks. And yet another bunch of rioting prisoners seem to be congregating alongside the buildings - to protect themselves from the sun.

    It's exagerated BS descriptions like this that our illustrious liberal newsmedia use every time somebody with a .22 bolt action rifle is made out as a "military trained killer with a fully automatic .50 caliber killing machine". It's BS descriptions like this that the Feds used at Ruby Ridge and Waco. Please stop the insanity.
     
  10. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    the gas

    was what killed most of the folks in russia. and 5the corrections officer might not like being gassed much
     
  11. Dixie_Amazon

    Dixie_Amazon Member

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    Apparently things got stirred up when 300 prisoners from Arizona were transfered the prison in Indiana.
     
  12. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    OK, here I am. First, the transfered inmates were hand selected for passivity, as this is a huge disruption in thier lives, and the families. Say what you want, visitation is a major tool of inmate management. There is no concrete data on who is doing what. I would be surprised it was the AZ inmates, but I have been wrong many times in the past.

    Calsdad, that's what a LOT of riots look like, during lulls, guys walking around doing nothing, then BOOM, violence in one corner. I watched a video of a big disturbance in one of our complexes, and mostly guys just refusing to follow orders, until they smashed thier way into the store, and into the chaplains office, then set fire to both.
    Big Stick, it's not SWAT's call, it DOC. Ordinarily, SWAT has no authority inside the walls, that's our turf...except this one is run by a private corporation. Private prisons are the worst, closed books, little oversight, and most "incidents" are covered up for fear of lawsuits. Staff are left to swing in the breeze to save the corporate profit. This SHOULD have some Indiana DOC overseers, usually an LT and a couple of Sgts. We'll see.
    NM234, knockout gas has to be tailored to an individual body weight, and released haphazard is what killed in Russia. Say what you want about "Gee, darn", but when the families break out the lawsuits, Al Sharpton and Donna Hamm, (look her up, be ready to puke), then you'll wonder why life seemed so good, before. Custodial responsability, it's not just a clever catch phrase, it has LOTS of meaning, especially in a court of law.
    CS is Ok, but a pain to clean up, and inmates can developa tolerance to the stuff. OC is better, outdoor cleanup is nill, and quite effective. Flash bangs and OC is the way to go right now, unless the inmates have aquired better weapons than bed springs and busted TVs.Then break out the "good stuff".
    BTW, here in AZ, we in DOC have our own version of SWAT.
     
  13. BigStick

    BigStick Member

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    What do you expect them to do? They're stuck in a prison yard, not downtown L.A., so there isn't whole lot they can do. No cars to vandalize, innocent bystanders to beat up, shops to loot, etc. But it looks like they are doing what damage they can: attacking staff members, burning matresses, etc. It is not clear what is going on inside the buildings, but it is clear that the prison security has lost control.
     
  14. RIDE

    RIDE Member

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    :D
    "They" said Randy Weaver and David Koresh were involved in "prison riots"???? Are you sure you know what happened to Mr. Weaver at Ruby Ridge and or The Branch Dividians in Waco, TX????

    Hmmm??? What exactly do you call a riot? When inmates, whom are normally under complete CONTROL by the prison system, are setting multiple fires WITHIN the confines of the prison, running in and out of the cell blocks at will, and seemingly have taken over complete control of at least a large portion of the prison... I think it's safe to say.. it's a riot. Have you been taking your schizophrenia meds??? not EVERY little thing is because of the evil "bunch of liberals" in black helicopters using words like "riots" so they can somehow fool you. LMAO You young man, are hilarious! :D:D:D
     
  15. NM234

    NM234 Member

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    yeah, but in russia they were inside an audotorium and the response was pretty slow to use the anti-dote, plus I believe they only used it once it was deemed necessary on someone. My cousin is a paramedic and has said if you administer the narcan within an hour or so the chances of death are pretty low.
     
  16. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    NM234, forget it, it will NOT happen. Too many variables, and there are too many over a wide spread area. It won't happen, not with a state DOC with the recources of the state to fall back on, much less a private company. There has never been a successful use of any tranquilizing agent on large groups of people in the open, anywhere in the US. So, please, forget the melodrama, and realize one thing is going to clear that yard, and one thing only- for the inmates to realize it's over. That's it. We can help along with whatever less than lethal munitions we can use, but until they figure out they lost, it will keep going.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2007
  17. Geronimo45

    Geronimo45 Member

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    "Warden threw a party in the county jail..."
     
  18. blackhawk2000

    blackhawk2000 member

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    Minigun. Helicopter. Problem solved.
     
  19. Checkman

    Checkman member

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    Well done Armoredman

    Armoredman.

    Very good response. But as a cop I'm here to tell you that the bashers don't care and will rarely actually read what you write. Your response contradicts their "worldview" and they don't like it. So I appreciate what you have to say and I know a few others do as well, but the bashers could care less. Kind of like the gungrabbers. Keep up the good work.:D
     
  20. Lucky

    Lucky Member

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    Nah, they had formulas and scientific opinions, and used what was decided to be the right amount.

    Then one lady who had a high tolerance stumbled out of the building. (because the aerosol tranquilizer worked, and knocked everyone else out)

    This caused some dumbasses to insist that there was not tranquilizers used, and had more pumped in. This CONTRIBUTED to people dieing.

    Then when the over-dosed people were dragged out, they were laid face-up in the rain, and those that didn't choke on their own vomit literally drowned in a light rain.

    Any teenager knows to leave passed-out dudes on their sides.
     
  21. runfrumu

    runfrumu Member

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    i like how it said witnesses saw at least 3 burning fires. as if there were other kinds.

    and dont say smoldering.
     
  22. Cato the Younger

    Cato the Younger Member

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    thank you for your insights, all?

    Armoredman, with your experience in this area, would you say that the frequency/severity of riots has been
    increasing
    stable
    or declining
    over the past 15/20 years. what factors do you think contribute to the rise of these riots (if this is trade-secret type stuff, I understand if you cannot answer).
    finally, to keep this gun related, what type of guns do you use in Corrections, and, if you use shotguns, are beanbag rounds effective?
     
  23. Brigrat

    Brigrat Member

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    Definently declining...riots per-capita are way down...that being said, there are many more in confinement than there used to be...

    Armoredman is dead on. I used to work corrections, and my wife is a state auditor for the DOC in our state...she primarily audits a GEO Prison (the same company managing the one that is rioting now). The contract prisons don't seem to be ran as well as the non-contracts that I worked in.
     
  24. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Thank you for your kind words, Checkman, most in street LE prefer to forget we are even here. Actually, MOST people want to forget that, too. They forget "lock 'em up, and throw away the key", means someone has to house them, feed them, and make sure they never do "it" again.
    Cato, I work for AZDOC, which means 90% of what we do is transparent, available for the general population, who we do serve and protect, by keeping the real mosters under lock and key. http://www.azcorrections.gov/newindex.asp has tons of free info for you.
    I would say major disturbances decrease generally, depending on what "theory" of corrections they use. See, prisons serve two funtions. One, they keep the bad ones away from you, and kepp them punished by the state for thier crimes. The second school of thought, and MUCH harder to quantify, is the school that brought the word "corrections" to prison life - the rehabilitation crowd.
    Inmates are convicted criminals, serving a time imposed by the state, until they are freed. 96% of ALL inmates currenlty incarcerated today will get out, eventually. 96%. Thats a lot of guys, when you think how many are behind bars right now. We do out best to educate them, and show them what life COULD be like if they are compliant with rules and regulations, via a theory called The Parrellel Universe, get them thinking what they have to do outside to survive, legally. Sometimes, it even works. We do many things ordered by liberal judges, because we have to, and few of them do any good whatsoever. Big surprise.
    Our relapse rate drops, and people go nuts, but most violent crimes are committed by the same few hardend felons. We can never reach them, and they are the reason I carry 24/7. The only thing they understand is pure, naked force. There is no reasoning with them, no appealing to thier better side, because there is none. The only argument they understand is a bullet.
    There are the others, well, let me tell you the Worm theory.
    There is the head of the worm, the ones who are getting it, programming right, doing what they can to change, and working hard to never, ever come back. There is the hind end, which we will never reach, the horrible ones, the ones who make the boogy man shake and quake.Then there is the middle, which is undetermined, and will follow the strongest leaders. We want to point and encourage the front, keep the hind end under control, while being civil about it, and try to influence the middle towards the front.
    Did I mention I am also a Staff Instructor? Oops.
    As for firearms, Glock 19, Remington 870, and AR15. Our TSU, (SWAT), has toys they don't talk about, so neither can I. But inside the walls, the fences, on the runs, our weapons are cans of OC, handcuffs, and our wits.
    Fun job, really.
     
  25. NM234

    NM234 Member

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    I have to agree that the opiate gas wouldn't be used (is that what they used in russia? I had heard it was a narcotic as opposed to a standard tranq. like a barbituate; its much easier to reverse the effects of a narcotic if you have enough narcan (I was pre-med before switching to pre-law and took the EMT course, but I am far from an expert). I think it could be used successfully, but your right it won't. And of course some people could be killed but it would kill less than running in there guns blazing. And I have heard similar things about them not handling the med response properly in russia.

    But again you are right, it will never happen. I would probably say this early on "If you all go back to your cells immediately your punishment will be minor, if you continue this prepare for drastic consequences." Give em a couple minutes and those who don't listen...... pummel the place w/tear gas and flash bangs, send in trained men w/full body armor, gas masks, riot sheilds (I had an idea for an electrified sheild, have they ever tried that before?) and stun guns with long sticks. Have them backed up with armored guys with submachine guns. You shouldn't try to kill them.... but if the least amount of lethal force is used that is appropriate; then I don't see why they should be able to sue (and this is coming from someone studying to be a lawyer :) )
     
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