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Full size double stack .380?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by w_houle, Nov 30, 2009.

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  1. w_houle

    w_houle Member

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    Seen what one manufacturer has to offer, and beside who is offering it(please don't go there), and has me thinking about the idea.
    It looks like the .380 is gaining some traction in the market: Kel Tec, Ruger, and the new DiamondBack (just to name a few) have something to offer in a pocket pistol; but to buy a .380 in a larger platform just leaves a person choosing from a short list. I have two: an unmentionable, and a Hi Point(both single stacks).
    I also know that it will also eventually lead to 9mm vs .380; then again why not .40 or .45? Then again I've felt the .380 would be a nice round for new shooters, and it isn't .22. Hopefully it would also mean the .380 would receive a dedicated production line, and be less of a novelty round. So how do you feel about a double stack .380, and who would thrill you if they made one?
     
  2. usp9

    usp9 Member

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    Beretta 84
    Taurus PT58
    CZ83
     
  3. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    .380's resurgence in the US is entirely because of pocket guns. Elsewhere it tends to be related to laws limiting the caliber that individuals can own.

    usp9, those aren't full-size guns in my book, though they're bigger than the Kel-Tec P3AT.

    Personally, I am not particularly interested in a full-size 9mm, to say nothing of anything smaller than 9mm -- except for .22LR target guns of course.
     
  4. hammerklavier

    hammerklavier Member

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    I own a medium sized .380 and will probably buy another one in pocket size soon, but it doesn't interest me. I like the small caliber small gun, larger caliber large gun philosophy.
     
  5. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    The Mac-11 :evil:
     
  6. wally

    wally Member

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    They are big for their caliber. The .380 hung around mostly because of guns like the PPK and SIG P230 until the super small plastic wonders hit the streets causing a recent resurgence that has made .380 ammo hard to find.

    Concealed carry laws had a lot to do with making the market viable as the P3AT etc. aren't much use at the range once the novelty wears off.

    --wally.
     
  7. Snowdog

    Snowdog Member

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    I feel the Cz83 is essentially just that. Being identical in all but caliber, I greatly enjoy my Cz82 (9x18). Having said that, I have no expectations nor any desire to see a full-size double stack .380acp in today's market. Why a .380acp and not a 9mm with mild loads that would nearly replicate the ballistics?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  8. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    That's not what "full-size" means, though. A full-size semiauto is typically a gun with a 4" or 5" barrel, and a full-length grip. See the XD Service, the standard 1911, or the Beretta 92/96/M9. Those are full-size semiautos.

    The P3AT is not intended as a range toy. Then again, neither was the PPK or the many similar guns it spawned like the SIG P230, CZ83, etc.

    There are full size .32 autos, because they are used in competition, mainly in Europe, as they qualify as "centerfire" but have minimal recoil. There are many full-size .22 autos, beacuse they are used in competition worldwide, and because they're fun to plink with.

    Where does the .380 fit? It doesn't.

    A Beretta 92 doesn't have much recoil with standard pressure loads. There's no reason to use 9x17mm (.380) instead of 9x19mm (regular 9mm Luger/NATO).

    The sole purpose of the .380 is to provide enough power to make a pocket gun viable for self-defense. It fills that niche quite well.

    9mm and .22LR make perfectly fine range toys. There's really no demand for something in between, and I'm not interested, either. Even factory 9mm is too expensive these days, and anything smaller gets to be a PITA to handload.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  9. rellascout

    rellascout member

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    Browning BDA has already come and gone. Well they are sort of back now.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. saturno_v

    saturno_v Member

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    I totally agree with ArmedBear


    Full size double stack 380?? Why???

    Nowdays with the good selection of pocketable 9mm the 380 is questionable even for a mouse gun.

    And the 9mm, IMHO, is questionable in a full size pistol given the enormous selection of .40 and .45. in the market.

    My pocket piece is a KT P-11
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  11. wally

    wally Member

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    Well my CZ-83 barrel is 3-13/16" by my measurements if you want to quibble :).

    Can't recall ever seeing a .380 bigger than the Browning BDA or Beretta 84. Not that I was looking :).

    --wally.
     
  12. TexasBill

    TexasBill Member

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    We have three .380 pistols: My wife has a Browning BDA .380, I have a Beretta 84FS Cheetah and a Walther PK380.

    The Beretta and Browning are double-stacks. They each have a 13+1 capacity. IMHO, the Beretta is about as full-size as a .380 needs to get. It's a lovely pistol and easy to shoot.

    Don't like the mini-pistols; the Walther PPK is about as small as I will go in .380. My idea of a good SD gun is one I can put 50 rounds through and enjoy it so much that I put another 50 rounds through it. I figure it shouldn't be an endurance test.
     
  13. KBintheSLC

    KBintheSLC Member

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    I agree with those who state that there just isn't much of a market for a full-sized 380. The 380's growing popularity is a result of expanding CCW rights. If people could comfortably conceal a full-sized gun, they would likely load it with a full-sized caliber.
     
  14. JMusic

    JMusic member

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    Why, even the mac eleven is not impressive. WHO, why ,why.:evil:




    Jim
     
  15. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    i found the Mac 11 very impressive as it was more controlable that the Mac 10 and the suppressor is smaller and more effective.

    while many don't consider the Beretta 84 or Sig 230 "full sized", they were designed as "belt guns" (read duty) for LE and would correctly be called duty/service sized for their calibre
     
  16. w_houle

    w_houle Member

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    Browning BDA: I think someone just pointed out my next gun:D
     
  17. nitetrane98

    nitetrane98 Member

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    You can do far worse than a BDA. The grip is only about 1/2-3/4 inch shorter than a High Power, slide about 1 1/2" shorter. It's one of my favorite guns. Very comfortable shooter.
     
  18. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Taurus made one for a while... might still. Held about 19 rounds IIRC.
     
  19. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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  20. TexasBill

    TexasBill Member

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    The Browning BDA .380 is back, if you know how to get one. My wife got her brand-new BDA in August of this year. It's a gorgeous pistol. Even though I have the Beretta, I would still like ot have a Browning of my own.

    Browning doesn't officially list them anymore but the still make them in batches for Davidson's Gallery of Guns.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  21. hirundo82

    hirundo82 Member

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    Glock makes a compact (G19 size) .380, the Model 25. The ATF won't let it be imported as it doesn't qualify for "sporting use" :rolleyes:.

    That aside, I honestly don't see the point of a full-size .380 vs. 9x19. You aren't going to gain any capacity, the ammo is more expensive, and there is going to be more felt recoil due to the blowback action vs the locked breech of the typical 9x19 gun.
     
  22. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

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    The Browing BDA .380 is the only .380 I would ever own. Shot one before. It's like a big ass .22.
     
  23. w_houle

    w_houle Member

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    I was under the impression that some Glocks are shipped into the U.S. with certain parts so they can make points, then swap those parts out once in the states. If Glock worked hard, they could get creative with it and have it make points too. If they did: I'd be owning one:D
     
  24. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Did you know the Browning BDA is actually manufactured by Beretta?

    Years ago, FN contracted with Beretta to manufacture the BDA. The gun has rollmarks from Beretta, FN and Browning. Explains the Beretta style slide mounted safety.

    Shortly after the FN contract, Beretta began marketing their own version- the 84, followed by the single stack 85. Magazines are interchangable between the BDA & 84.

    The main differences between the two:

    Hammer
    84- Round
    BDA- Spur

    Sights
    84- Taller
    BDA- Tiny, smaller "half moon" than the old Hi Power had.

    Safety
    84- Frame mounted
    BDA- Slide mounted

    Slide
    84- Open top
    BDA- Closed

    Trigger guard
    84- early models had a rather small curved TG, later a larger style with checkering in the front of the TG.
    BDA- same as the early 84 TG.


    I own a couple of BDA's. They are one of the prettiest handguns I've owned. But if I had to choose between the BDA & the 84 for concealed carry- hands down the 84. Better sights, better safety location and the round hammer of the 84 doesn't snag or gouge your ribs like the BDA spur hammer does.
     
  25. Micro

    Micro Member

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    Here's how a CZ83 .380 compares to a CZ75 Compact 9mm.

    [​IMG]

    Nearly the same size. So I really don't see the practicality of a gun the size of a CZ83 in .380 when a 9mm can be had in a similar size.

    Practicality aside, however, the gun is a extremely comfortable. It carries exceptionally well. I carry it in an Uncle Mikes inside-the-pants holster which I usually just tuck into my pants pocket. There's something about it I just really, really like. So I carry it. Even though there are better choices.
     
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