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Funny ATF informational cartoon

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by bsctov, Nov 24, 2010.

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  1. bsctov

    bsctov Member

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  2. Dookie

    Dookie Member

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    the first "example" is bogus. No information was given that it was actually a straw purchase. For all we know "bobby" was telling the guy what he should buy. As in. You need to buy that. I have the money, OK.

    Decent information. Good post.
     
  3. elcaminoariba

    elcaminoariba member

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  4. ZCORR Jay

    ZCORR Jay Member

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    Gotta love the government instructional videos.

    Wonder how much tax money it cost to make that.
     
  5. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

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    ah, ATF propaganda......

    1.) Bobby may have appeared underage.....but the clerk never bothered to ask for ID.

    2.) there was no mention that it was a handgun in the initial scene.....so how are you to know he wasnt looking at a rifle.

    3.) there is no proof that Mr.Thomas was buying the gun for bobby.....bobby simply said that he should get "that" one.......


    and does anyone like how the gun happened to be "black".........more "evil black gun" propaganda 'eh.......
     
  6. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    The whole "cartoon" is bogus as far as I'm concerned. What ever happened to yesteryear. I purchased and owned handguns when I was 15. atf has gotten involved in restricting our rights ever sense they were contrived...
     
  7. bigalexe

    bigalexe Member

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    They had me laughing at the elevator music.
     
  8. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Actually, I think I heard that music before, another "instructional" video, from the late 70s...
    Yes, bogus.
     
  9. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

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    So the ATF shouldn't undertake actions to help FFL dealers stay on the right side of the law?

    Instead, what? They should just not make instructional videos?

    Look, we live in an imperfect world, and as such, there are rules and regulations that gun dealers and buyers have to abide by in order to make a purchase, and not abiding by those procedures can result in very harsh penalties. While it may feel good to anonymously vent your spleen about the ATF on a message board, none of that changes the reality of the situation.

    As such, a stylistically milquetoast flash cartoon is the least of the kitten-stomping travesties committed by the ATF, and certainly not something to get worked up about.
     
  10. TheCol.U.S.M.C.

    TheCol.U.S.M.C. Member

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    This looked like training for the walmart or other big box store that sells guns if you have ever been in one of those, this cartoon might help some of the guys that work that counter

    Ohh and I too am worried about all the "black" gun racism, can't they all just be rifles, or pistols or even guns why all this hate over color
     
  11. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Some of you wouldn't last two weeks as an FFL......

    Not "bogus" by a long shot.
    All it takes is the clerk being suspicious that a straw sale is occuring.


    I wish they had more educational materials. I would rather sit through that little video than sit in a cell.


    Huh? Dude....this isn't some ad, it's a training video to show how straw sales can occur.


    The clerk doesn't have to ask. Even if "Bobby" is 21, the clerk can stop the sale as Bobby is having someone else acquire the handgun for him.


    Geeze. "Bobby", the "Neighbor" and the clerk know it's a handgun....so just play along.:rolleyes:


    Again, proof is not needed. The clerk can stop the sale on mere suspicion that a straw sale is occurring.


    I don't know where you've been the last forty odd years, but that law has been in effect since 1968.

    Blaming the ATF is misguided- they are tasked with enforcement of unconstitutional laws passed in 1934 and 1968. Blame lies squarely at the foot of Congress and the Presidents who were in office in 1934 & 1968.
     
  12. David W. Gay

    David W. Gay Member

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    Opening Transcript from the cartoon:
    After first watch, I was with the "It's not a stray purchase" crowd. However, after listening closely, it's not really that clear. The problem starts with Mr. Thomas' statement, "...we'll take that one...", specifically the "we'll" part. By itself, maybe not an issue, but tied with, "No, this is my neighbor...", this seems to be a rather legally questionable transaction. Indictably so? Who knows, but I think it is reasonable for the clerk to decline the sale/transfer at that point. On the other had, if Mr. Thomas had said, "I'll take that one...", then I don't think there would be a problem. (IMNSHO)

    Sure, there could be endless mitigating facts that could spin the situation endlessly, but that's not the case as presented.

    As to whether or not the ATF should even be producing such "informational cartoons" - why not? At the very least, it provides insight on an obviously difficult to explain legal situation, and their take on the matter. And since they are the enforcers of the matter, their take on it matters, whether or not we think it matters. But that's another matter...
     
  13. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I personally appreciate the fact that the BATFE is using simple training videos to help dealers comply with the requirements and that they make them available to anyone interested in seeing them. They should edit the sound track to make it impossible for someone to miss that a handgun purchase is taking place, other than that it looks pretty good.

    Here's the link to all of the training videos. http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
  14. BADUNAME13

    BADUNAME13 Member

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    Gift what?
     
  15. Topcat

    Topcat Member

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    Sorry that "I was only following orders" hasn't worked since the Nuremburg trials.
     
  16. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

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    hrmm.....who better to spread your message to than straight to the ones selling the guns.......

    all propaganda isnt high contrast red on black pictured of Stalin or Hitler....when you spend a lot of time researching it, it actually becomes painfully easy to see.

    there is honestly little to know reason to suspect that.......yeah sure in this video it was some creepy old guy and a kid.....but what if it were 2 30 year old guys.....there would be no reason to suspect anything out of the ordinary.


    yes, by and by "playing along" you are subconsciously putting yourself at a predisposition to continue to "play along" and are more likely to agree with what they say in the future.

    again, there was nothing there that would raise suspicion......now if one person handled and inspected the gun, did all the talking and had the money, and then the other person filled out the form and passed the background check.....then yeah, that would be suspicious......

    what they are doing in this video is making it easier for the clerk to assume something illegal is going on.....
     
  17. fireman 9731

    fireman 9731 Member

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    The ATF treats us like kids.... whats new?
     
  18. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    Exactly. Can't all the guns "just learn to get along".
     
  19. Erik M

    Erik M Member

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    Someone at the BATFE can make cartoons with flash? impressive even if it looks like it was made 10 years ago.
     
  20. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Your comment is nonsensical in the context of this thread.
    ATF can only enforce laws that are passed by Congress. As a regulatory agency they (like many other) have wide latitude in how they do so. It is in my best interest as a firearms dealer to follow those laws. ATF's little video that so many are making fun of is one means to educate FFL's on straw purchases.

    This is a training video for GUN DEALERS! I don't think your tin foil hat allows you to see clearly. While you may think it propaganda it isn't. If you were a gun dealer you would understand that. Go get your FFL and then get snarky about ATF showing you how not to go to jail.

    Explain it to us before the aliens come back for you.

    Again you fail. It's good you aren't a firearms dealer. Spend some time at a gun counter or a dealers table at a gun show. You meet all kinds of interesting folks who ask all about a gun only to walk off and return with a friend who wants to buy the gun he's never touched until now.

    By "play along" I meant for you to allow your brain accept that ALL THREE OF THE PRETEND PEOPLE KNOW ITS A HANDGUN. But you knew that.

    By merely agreeing with the three cartoon characters in the video (that they are talking about a handgun) you don't instantly submit to ATF's subconscious propaganda....you have to give them your email address for that.

    Really?
    You fail again.
     
  21. M2

    M2 Member

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    "Funny?" I didn't see anything "funny" about it!

    Did anyone else watch the other videos Just replace the number at the end of the URL with a 1, 2, etc. They are kinda interesting, it gives you some insight into the type of information the BATFE feels is important for dealers to know...

    Cheers! M2
     
  22. wyocarp

    wyocarp Member

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    Well, I am a FFL and I don't think gun stores should have to make decissions about what the ATF is calling a straw purchase.

    I also don't feel that people should be restricted from buying a handgun because of his/her state of residence.

    I also feel that if someone is 18, they should be able to buy handguns from a gun store and not just from private individuals.



    Because I have to, I do these things. I turned down a sale today because the 40 year old lady was from another state. I turned down a sale today because a student wasn't 21 and therefore couldn't buy the pistol grip mossberg.

    The gift thing/straw purchase is a can of worms.
     
  23. Mainsail

    Mainsail Member

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  24. il_10

    il_10 Member

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    ... so it can't be a gift unless the person doing the gifting is the boy's father? I'm fairly sure that's not the case.

    Wyocarp: When I bought my mossberg at 18 it was the persuader model with the full stock, but came with the pistol grip as well. That way you're not transferring a PGO shotgun (not a shotgun on the forms) and the kid gets his PGO shotgun when he makes it, legally, at a later date.
     
  25. Topcat

    Topcat Member

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    It is not funny but sad if the best "training" gun dealers get comes from a cartoon.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2010
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