After reading the Calif. regulation concerning Lead in bullets used for hunting, it seemed that it probably isn't to much of a stretch to figure just where national EPA Regulations are going concerning Lead in ANY firearm projectile. Anyone have a national or regional or State Law or Regulation to cite concening the EPA's manifesto?
FUTURE of Cast Lead Bullets
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tyeo098
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The EPA wasn't behind CA's new regulations. California was.
The EPA has stated time and time again they wont issue regulations concerning lead ammunition.
The closing of the primary smelter will have 0 effect on lead ammunition, as projectile companies buy from secondary (scarp) smelters.
The EPA has stated time and time again they wont issue regulations concerning lead ammunition.
The closing of the primary smelter will have 0 effect on lead ammunition, as projectile companies buy from secondary (scarp) smelters.
Comrade Mike
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The future of cast lead bullets?
Well they'll still be hand made out of lead by grumpy old men in their garages.
Well they'll still be hand made out of lead by grumpy old men in their garages.
barnbwt
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See post #2. Kali's lead ban has more to do with the state's intended annihilation of all gun ownership than protecting the environment. So long as our individual states hold back or beat back the tide of like minded individuals here, Kali's lead ban can in no way impact us. Kali's lead ban may also not even exist for very long if the courts side with us one or two more times (in Heller it was held a class of common firearms can't be banned, so why ammo?)
TCB
TCB
fastbolt
Member
The CA ban on lead bullets for all hunting has a way to go before it's fully implemented (2019?), and things may change along the way.
The movement toward "green" ammunition, for not only hunting, but for target ranges, is slowly building. Expect it to get bigger, not smaller.
How many commercial training venues already require it, or are considering it?
Then, there's the military's goals.
I'd not be overly concerned about running out of lead for ammunition, though, as there are car batteries being recycled all the time.
The movement toward "green" ammunition, for not only hunting, but for target ranges, is slowly building. Expect it to get bigger, not smaller.
How many commercial training venues already require it, or are considering it?
Then, there's the military's goals.
I'd not be overly concerned about running out of lead for ammunition, though, as there are car batteries being recycled all the time.
Type: while true that it wasn't the "EPA" that instituted the ban, it was the CALIFORNIA EPA! And as for EPA stating over and over that they WON'T ban Lead ammo, You actually believe that? I somewhat agree about the Smelter.
barnbwt: "in Heller it was held a class of common firearms can't be banned, so why ammo?" You might think that one through just a little more. You're trusting the EPA way to much.
fastbolt: This is the post I agree with the most, however, with the likes of Pols such as Moonbeam (Biden Light) anything is possible. The "Green" ammo is what concerns me the most, because with HUGE military contracts ammo manufacturers are going to cater to one or the other not both. Think ammo is tight now, just wait.
Excellent posts all, keep them coming.
CMD
barnbwt: "in Heller it was held a class of common firearms can't be banned, so why ammo?" You might think that one through just a little more. You're trusting the EPA way to much.
fastbolt: This is the post I agree with the most, however, with the likes of Pols such as Moonbeam (Biden Light) anything is possible. The "Green" ammo is what concerns me the most, because with HUGE military contracts ammo manufacturers are going to cater to one or the other not both. Think ammo is tight now, just wait.
Excellent posts all, keep them coming.
CMD
Arkansas Paul
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Grumpy guys in their early 30s still will be too.
gunsablazin
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I'm not usually grumpy, and with around 2,000 lbs of lead in my garage, I'll be casting for a while yet.....
plmitch
Member
Alot of worry over nothing there.
mdauben
Member
The Federal EPA has absolutly nothing to do with the California EPA, other than the similar name. Every state has its own EPA/DEM/DEP/EPD/etc. and they are all functionally independent of, and often at odds with, the Federal EPA.
Actually, they have stated over and over that they can't ban lead ammo. That it isn't within their current powers under the laws they enforce. Certainly that could change but it would take a new law from Congress.
Ifishsum
Member
Well, I am getting grumpier I must admit. And I don't cast in my garage either. But I probably have enough lead to meet my own needs for 10 or 15 years, and recently found a source for a lot more.
tyeo098
Member
I'm 22 and I cast lead... I'm pretty grumpy if its too cold to though.
armoredman
Member
I resemble this remark...
old pic, much more junk in the garage now
As for EPA stating they don't have the authority, true, I remember reading about it - but the EPA works hand in glove with activist groups to get court orders to work "around" such bothersome restrictions. I would also expect if they get stymied somehow, Dear Leader might be moved to do an Executive "Action" to require the EPA to start regulating lead ammunition - we can't wait for Congress to act, now can we...
Comrade Mike
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All that about "green" military ammo is still smoke and mirrors for the most part. I read the testing pamphlet on it, to achieve performance at or better than the standard 62 grain penetrator it's running at something like 15kpsi over SAAMI spec for the 5.56.
I don't remember the company, but their whole pitch is "look at our 62 grain bullet made out of copper, tungsten and fairy dust. It shoots flatter has a higher velocity and fragments better.....because we jammed more powder in the case...."
It's just another money pit for the US government to fill with tax payer dollars.
We can kill our enemies with bombs, missiles, rail guns, drones, land mines, ect. But god forbid you leave a little lead laying around.....
I don't remember the company, but their whole pitch is "look at our 62 grain bullet made out of copper, tungsten and fairy dust. It shoots flatter has a higher velocity and fragments better.....because we jammed more powder in the case...."
It's just another money pit for the US government to fill with tax payer dollars.
We can kill our enemies with bombs, missiles, rail guns, drones, land mines, ect. But god forbid you leave a little lead laying around.....
AABEN
Member
I cast all of my hand gun bullets. Think about my long guns next.
anothernewb
Member
I think we have little to worry aobut. let the epa do what they want. the rest of the world will see a market and continue to make them for us. it might suck to have chinese cast lead - but it'll still be available.
Drugs and other things are illegal as well... yet I still see people selling on the street corner.
If there's a need - there will be a provider. Opiates were legal in the old west, but became illegal over time. push certain things hard enough (like pot) and eventually someone will try and make it legal again.
*edit* okay the first bit - let the epa do as it will was a stupid thing to say. fight them all the way - but don't panic about it is a better way to put it
Drugs and other things are illegal as well... yet I still see people selling on the street corner.
If there's a need - there will be a provider. Opiates were legal in the old west, but became illegal over time. push certain things hard enough (like pot) and eventually someone will try and make it legal again.
*edit* okay the first bit - let the epa do as it will was a stupid thing to say. fight them all the way - but don't panic about it is a better way to put it
The debate about lead toxicity can get very heated:
The current OHSA standard is 80 micrograms per cubic meter exposure in the workplace, this data is from the 60's and you have to multiply the numbers by 1000 to get micrograms.:
However, your greatest exposure to airborne lead, which goes directly into your blood stream after you inhale the stuff, is from shooting cast bullets. Remember that 80 micrograms is the OSHA limit, each shot from a revolver puts out 5600 micrograms!
All you have to do is read the efforts the Armed forces are making to reduce lead bullets, lead primers, reclaim lead bullets from berms, read about the lead bans for shot, rifle bullets, it should not take an Einstein to realize that bare lead, or even jacketed lead bullets, are headed towards a legislated ash heap.
Enjoy shooting those lead cast bullets while you can.
The current OHSA standard is 80 micrograms per cubic meter exposure in the workplace, this data is from the 60's and you have to multiply the numbers by 1000 to get micrograms.:
However, your greatest exposure to airborne lead, which goes directly into your blood stream after you inhale the stuff, is from shooting cast bullets. Remember that 80 micrograms is the OSHA limit, each shot from a revolver puts out 5600 micrograms!
All you have to do is read the efforts the Armed forces are making to reduce lead bullets, lead primers, reclaim lead bullets from berms, read about the lead bans for shot, rifle bullets, it should not take an Einstein to realize that bare lead, or even jacketed lead bullets, are headed towards a legislated ash heap.
Enjoy shooting those lead cast bullets while you can.
you must not shoot much, and only cast very lw bullets. A ton of lead is just 60,000 200 gre .45 bullets. If you cast 125 gr 9mm's a ton might get you 100,000. That's not much shooting, spread over 15 years. I've seen hundreds of days that I shot over 500 rds.
With the expansion of the led ban, now to encompass the entire state; the state has essentially admitted that the pretense of banning lead to "protect the Kommifornia Condor" was a 100% lie.
As such, I will specifically go out of my way to use lead bullets. If they get too pissy about enforcement, I'll quit hunting in California altogether and take my hunting dollars out of the state.
As such, I will specifically go out of my way to use lead bullets. If they get too pissy about enforcement, I'll quit hunting in California altogether and take my hunting dollars out of the state.
alsaqr
Member
Exactly.
In 2010 the EPA stated that agency lacks the authority to ban lead bullets:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/27/epa-rejects-calls-ban-lead-ammo-fishing-tackle/
oneounceload
member
Yet they, along with DU, are the culprits behind the use on non-lead shot for migratory bird hunting..............
NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the federal bureaucrats
Dain Bramage
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I believe President Obama has implemented the gun control EO's he feels he can get away with without congressional action. Holder's justice department may be corrupt and agenda driven, but they're not stupid.
armoredman
Member
Actually, no, they aren't...which is why they laughed at the civil and criminal Contempt of Congress censures he's received.
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