GA Teen suspended for not hanging up on Mom in Iraq

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Those people that say the kid assaulted his teacher, I think you are reading the invisible ink between the lines. The kid didn't want to hang up, and THAT was the SOLE crime, not wanting to hang up. YEA put him in jail.

I'm just guessing, but if they let him finish his call he wouldn't be defiant and disorderly, now would he? If someone snatched the phone, or pushed the off button, then that would make someone defiant and disorderly.

BTW 'Defiant' means 'he didn't want to hang up'. Wow what a crime. C'mon get a grip of course he didn't want to hang up that moment.

And FYI 'Disorderly' means nothing, it's blanket terminology, if I had to guess I think it meant he used his Outside voice Inside. OH MY GOD CALL SWAT!
 
Jefnvk, was this grandmother getting shot at daily? Avoiding rocket propelled grenades? Was the dad in your scenario dodging Improvised explosive devices on his way to the terminal gate of his flight? Probably not huh?

Do you know what I hate? Cookie cutter rules that do not take into account actual conditions. Kind of like military rules saying no weapons other than those issued, how long does that last in a theater of operations? If there are rules then there are also good reasons to ignore those rules at times. Anyone that thinks all the rules will fit every situation is either extremely nieve or purposefully deluding themselves.

From all that has been reported the kid did right, which may be different than what the "rules" say. Rules are not always right.
 
I am so irate at some of you THR members right now. Let me just start off with my background. I currently teach at a continuation high school of 9th-12th graders. We have a no cell phones on campus policy, which loosely translates into don't have them out anywhere on campus.

For those of you arguing that schools are too hypercritical of teenagers and that the administration is wrong, you are ignorant of modern day teaching with today's youth. You know what I would give to have an administration that backs up their teachers and enforces the rules of the institution consistently and fairly? You people don't even know what a waste half of the students are at my school. I caught a kid shooting dice with a wad of cash in his hand the other day right in front of me. I called him over and asked him his name. He responded, "Chris." I said lets go to the office. Halfway there he says, "I am going to get suspended, so I am just going to run." I told him that wasn't a good idea. I take him to the office, as soon as I turn my back, he bolts. Runs off campus. Come to find out, his name isn't Chris after all. HE LIED!!! Well thanks to having a small school, it didn't take long to find out who he was because his friends ratted him out. Guess how long he was suspended for? THREE DAYS! THREE STINKING DAYS! A student who is willing to lie to a teacher, run away from school, all in the name of gambling gets three days suspension. Why wasn't he expelled?

Anyone here who doesn't currently work in a high school has no clue what these youth are capable of. They will lie to you every chance they get. They will pit you against your other teachers if you let them. They will tell their parents one story and try and turn the parents against the staff. And the most sickening part is these moron parents believe their little angels. :barf: America is being conned and it is by our own children. PARENTS WAKE THE F UP!!! YOUR CHILDREN WILL LIE, CHEAT, and STEAL THEIR WAY OUT OF TROUBLE. I wasn't much different in some aspects, but my dad was smart enough not to believe my bullcrap. We lost common sense parents who knew their kids are more than capable of lying to them. WAKE UP!

So to everyone who has gone off on the bandwagon on this, come walk a few days in my shoes. Come see really what youth are up to. Come watch their pitiful performance in school. See how apathetic they are and how they think the best things in life are video games, marijuana, alcohol, sex, and their cell phone. Try and teach a student who sees no value in education whatsoever. Come learn that modern day teaching is more about being a disciplinarian than about really teaching. Then have some people have the nerve to blame me for their spoiled brats horrible behavior and failing performance in school and use standardized tests that have no bearing on a students grade be the basis for my teaching evaluation.

I think one of the things that makes me a better teacher than most is I spent three years working in a federal prison. You learn in prison never to trust inmates and to always back up your fellow staff members. The same goes for modern high school students. I could imagine any number of my students pulling this same stunt. "I am talking to my mom in Iraq." Right, just like the other day when I caught you talking to your friend on the phone or like the time you lied to me about your name when I caught you gambling.

Sure maybe I would have used a little discretion in this case, especially during lunch time. Or maybe not. Either way, this kid broke a school rule and a good school rule at that. CELL PHONES HAVE NO POSITIVE VALUE ON CAMPUS AND THEY DO NOT FACILITATE BETTER TEACHING. If the school in order to maintain consistency wants to ban them all day, then that is what needs to be done.

Would I respect this kid for politely saying, "Mr. El Rojo I am on the phone with my mother who is deployed in Iraq. I am willing for you to write me a referral as I see that as a worthy sacrifice for being able to talk to my mother?" Heck yes, as I write him a referral. And would the administrator probably suspend him for ten days for that? They would probably give him a detention and I wouldn't mind that at all. Did this student respond in a polite manner?

Yet you people don't get it. Youth today aren't used to being respectful and courteous, they like to cuss and go off the handle and act like the world owes them something. You can try and treat these students like adults, but they just crap all over you for it. And they try and get their parents to back them up as they do it.

All I have to say is wake up America. Many of your youth are failing you. They are not respectful and nice citizens who just "wanted to use the cell phone." They are disrespectful, apathetic, victims who think the world owes them something and will do whatever immoral action it takes to get it.

Yeah, I know, I work at a continuation high school so I work with the worst of the bunch. It is true. However, go talk to any current, non-continuation high school and the same thing is happening there too. Those of you who don't teach don't get it. You can get on here and scream about student rights all you want, just realize you are leading us all right to doom. You don't even have a clue.

As long as students continue to run our schools all with the backing of their irresponsible "friends" called parents, do you wonder why anyone worth a damn wants to keep teaching? Why do you think I have to deal with colleagues who can't handle teaching and are more content giving out worksheets and keeping the class quiet then trying to teach something? Why do you think there are bad teachers out there who yell and scream at students and encourage zero tolerance with no discretion? Why is our education system lacking in so many ways?

And by the way, I have only been teaching for 5 months at my school and I am 28. So if you think I am a crabby old fart who wishes we could go back to the old days, you are wrong. Hell I am pretty much in the same video game generation. I was an enthusiastic, hard working teacher who wanted to make a difference. Oh how quickly reality will hit you in the face. We are losing our young people ladies and gentleman. And after seeing some of the comments people have made on this thread, I guess now I understand why.

[/rant]

For those of you who raise good kids that are motivated and accept responsiblity for their actions and for those lucky enough to teach them, keep up the good work. I envy you.
 
Later stories are somewhat different

School administration asserts that serving the Fort Benning community as they do - see above - they have accomodations for such calls with proper behavior.

The assistant principal said many students at Spencer have parents serving overseas. "We are the school that serves Fort Benning," Turner said. "We're well aware of students with parents overseas. Some will just call the school if they want to talk to their sons or daughters. We'll gladly get the kid out of class."
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Reports are the punishment was first increased for aggravated behavior - not for using the phone - and then remitted to time served with the student back in class Monday. There are some discrepancies in the stories about prior behavior by the student as well -
Francois said he has been in trouble at school before, but not over anything serious.
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My own initial reaction was Kim Du Toit's RCOB but I'll try to remember to go with Paul Harvey's The Rest of the Story next time.
 
Yet you people don't get it. Youth today aren't used to being respectful and courteous, they like to cuss and go off the handle and act like the world owes them something. You can try and treat these students like adults, but they just crap all over you for it. And they try and get their parents to back them up as they do it.

All I have to say is wake up America. Many of your youth are failing you. They are not respectful and nice citizens who just "wanted to use the cell phone." They are disrespectful, apathetic, victims who think the world owes them something and will do whatever immoral action it takes to get it.
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100% true. I'm 21, so I remember what high school was like. Ask Norton if there were kids who would have said what this kid said (and would be lying) at my high school. The family could have avoided this problem completely by having the mother call the school if the only time she could call was during school hours. The vast majority of school administrators are good people who are understanding of situations like this and I would be the administration at my high school would have allowed the kid to go to the office to talk to his mom.

Some of you sound like the typical, awful "my child can do no wrong" "parents." One of the purposes of school is to teach children discipline. Part of discipline is being able to handle situations like this like an adult. To those of you who think a teacher never has a right to touch a child (or dare to turn off their cell phone), remember that the next time you see a video of a 5 year old whose behavior problem caused an entire classroom to have to be cleared out :rolleyes:.

ClarkEMyers, in my experiences, the kids who were, at any time, getting an F in a course weren't just education problems. They were always behavior problems too, so a past history of unacceptable behavior (which would make it even more likely that he would lie about who he was talking to) from the kid wouldn't surprise me.
 
"will do whatever immoral action it takes to get it."
Amoral, we're PoMo now dude, right=success wrong=failure moral=something in the bible immoral=something fun in the bible

Also, no-one lost the common-sense parents, they were scared away. When a man's house was his castle your had +s and -s, abuses were unreported and so on, but also all that common-sense stuff was allowed. When households became regulated common sense was un-necessary, actually counter-productive. Now what you talk about are the children of the children who grew up in the government-designed fashion. Works of art, no? All they're good for is producing and consuming, producing and consuming, it's all they're designed for. I think you would be enlightened to stop expecting more than that, then if you do find more occasionally it's a pleasant surprise.
 
El Rojo,

Your post just reminds me of why I would not have my kids in a public school.

nico,

My kids can do wrong and I am all for corporal punishment. But they will
not be put into an environment where they are punished by some
pea brain sized administrativecrate zero tolerance following "teacher".

I am not saying nico fits that profile. But that is what I have seen as the norm in public schools of late.

I also think society has ASKED for things to be as El Rojo describes.

Nothin the two of you posted have anything whatsoever to do with
the topic at hand. Your post are merely diatribes about how bad things have gotten becuase of the way the adults have chosen to run society. And these things have led to a system that would put a boy in the position he was put into.

Our kids are a reflection of what "we" have allowed to happen. It is not the other way around.
 
Assistant principal Alfred Parham says Francois could have been arrested for being defiant. He adds that students are not permitted to use cell phones "for conversating back and forth during school because if they were allowed to do that, they could be text messaging each other for test questions."
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I don't blame folks for keeping their kids out of a school where the principal uses the word "conversating".

Trouble is this mother doesn't have that luxury because her husband is dead and she is stuck on the other side of the world in service to her country.

If you can't understand the difference between a mother on a dillettante European vacation and a mother deployed in the military then I am sorry for you.

To use this instance as an excuse for a "Kids are bad mmmkay" rant is even more pitiful.

G
 
First of all, the thread title and the article title are both sensationalized and wrong. The student did not get suspended for the phone call and was not suspended for not hanging up on his mom in Iraq.

He was suspended for his conduct after refusing to follow a teacher's instructions after first using a phone that he was not supposed to be using in school.

Whether or not the call came from his mom in Iraq does not play into the suspension. More over, the only knowledge we have that the call was from his mom in Iraq is apparently from the student himself. In other words, we don't know if it was his mom or his drug dealer, girlfriend, or boyfriend.

I find it amusing that many of you have discussed violence and other reactions had you been the student. It is funny because you have taken it as truth that he was talking to his mom. No doubt that if I had a mom in Iraq and I wanted to use my phone during school, I would proclaim that I was talking to my mom if I got caught with the phone. In short, many of you are buying into the mom story over that of the school, thinking the school must be wrong, and y'all don't even know the facts.
 
Our kids are a reflection of what "we" have allowed to happen. It is not the other way around.
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You are correct there. It comes down to the parents. What do they allow? The parents vote for the school board. The parents enable their children to either be good or to be bad. I won't argue with that.

If you can't understand the difference between a mother on a dillettante European vacation and a mother deployed in the military then I am sorry for you.
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If your kid can't understand the difference between respectfully disregarding a school rule and accepting responsiblity for his/her actions and becoming rude and direspectful, I am sorry to. Again, you guys assume this is an angel who was simply talking to his mom on the cell phone. And as has been pointed out, he wasn't suspended for talking on the cell phone. He was suspended for his attitude and profanity.

Amoral, we're PoMo now dude, right=success wrong=failure moral=something in the bible immoral=something fun in the bible
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Thank you for sharing your idea of moral vs. immoral. I just look at is as right vs. wrong. Moral doesn't equal the bible. Moral just means what we in society find as good traits and behaviors that we would all like to see everyone display. I am sorry if that is your hang up. I was just talking about integrity, honesty, consideration for others, and responsibility vs. selfishness, deciet, theft, violence. If you want to do the fun things in the Bible, go for it. Everyone has free will, I can't control you.

I think you would be enlightened to stop expecting more than that, then if you do find more occasionally it's a pleasant surprise.
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Spoken just like a veteran teacher. Sorry, but that is so depressing to me. That is why I am having trouble with looking at our future in our kids. I don't want to just collect my paycheck and watch as the zombies take over our education system and all of the kids with potential get swept away because we are too busy trying to keep the bad kids under control and have no time spend trying to enjoy the good kids.

Well if this thread serves as a way for you to see that the public education is screwed and you want to keep your kids out of it, then I feel I have done my job. At least people will see this thing for what it is and realize our schools are going down hill. Keep your kids out if you love them and want them to succeed in life. Send them to me if you want them to experience all of the glory the rest of the unparented zombies display.

And congratulations to the newspaper who managed to sensationalize this story and increase their publicity. The masses bought it hook, line, and sinker. No wonder the anti's have such an easy job convincing people with the emotional plea.
 
For everyone who contends that it is impossible to tell whether the kid was really talking to his mother, try looking at the 'calls received' list on any cellphone.

I can understand the school enforcing policies consistently and I do not have a major problem with the kid being punished for whatever rules he broke.

OTOH, I was absolutely incensed by the quote "Now being that his mother is in Iraq, we're not trying to cause her any undue hardship; he was suspended for 10 days." from the assistant principal. Gee, what a favor he did for the mother. That moron showed a total lack of human compassion, absolute failure to exercise judgement, and infinite capacity for condescending hypocrisy.
 
My kids can do wrong and I am all for corporal punishment. But they will
not be put into an environment where they are punished by some
pea brain sized administrativecrate zero tolerance following "teacher".
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So your kid should be able to talk on his/her cell phone in school whenever you think it's ok? Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but I don't think an exception to the rule that says you can't flip out and cuss at teachers is appropriate in this situation, from what I've read about it. My whole point was that noone here knows exactly what happened. Yet, a lot of people act as if the kid was perfectly reasonable and handled the situation correctly while the teachers were completely out of line, which doesn't seem to be true. The fact is, there are plenty of kids in high school who would have no qualms about lying to a teacher to get their way.

btw, I'm not in favor of corporal punishment in schools. I was just replying to the ridiculous statement that one poster made about how if a teacher ever touched them they'd put them in the hospital (or something along those lines).

Nothin the two of you posted have anything whatsoever to do with
the topic at hand. Your post are merely diatribes about how bad things have gotten becuase of the way the adults have chosen to run society. And these things have led to a system that would put a boy in the position he was put into.
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No, my post was pointing out that so many people complain about kids in schools being out of control, but then complain when the rules are enforced and a discipline problem is dealt with. In one of the articles posted, the principal was quoted as saying that any parent in the military can call the office and they'll pull the kid out of class to talk to them. Again, a lot of people are acting like the school is totally out of line and the kid was totally right. Sorry, but a 17 year old needs to be able to handle situations like this like an adult. And I say this with a clear memory of what it was like to be 17.
 
GT good call, conversating lol.

"I don't think an exception to the rule that says you can't flip out and cuss at teachers is appropriate in this situation, from what I've read about it. My whole point was that noone here knows exactly what happened. Yet, a lot of people act as if the kid was perfectly reasonable and handled the situation"

Actually it's the opposite, you and most others assume the kid 'flipped out and cussed'. I tried to illustrate earlier that the 2 crimes, Defiance and Disorderly are miniscule.

Defiance
"Hang up the phone!" ---"No, it's my mom in Iraq."
Bam, committed defiance.

Disorderly
"Hand up the phone NOW!" ----- "NO!"
Bingo, disorderly.


Eh Rojo those aren't the real definitions of moral and stuff, sort of tongue in cheek. Good luck with that, but you go expecting unlikely things you will be disappointed many times, and become that bitter guy. I'm not the teacher, but both parents were! And yea, they weren't too happy with things before they retired.
 
he was talking to his mom

who is in a WAR ZONE

his mom may not COME HOME


you know,you folks who are siding with the school principle have been "conversating" with yourself to much.

[good german accent] yah, we must load the Jews on to the trains,those are theRULES[good german accent] :cuss: :banghead:
 
Good luck with that, but you go expecting unlikely things you will be disappointed many times, and become that bitter guy.
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I know. However, the question is, how much should we expect out of our students? If I don't expect anything and I don't get anything, then can I really blame the students for not wanting to do anything? I am more laid back than some teachers and I know the totalitarian type that you are all critical of and I agree, they like authority for authority's sake. However, are we never to expect anything from our youth because I will be disappointed? That doesn't sound right either.
 
I had no idea that we had so many anarchists on the board

Once again, the membership is in an uproar over what was published in a newspaper article. The article doesn't really detail what was said between the teacher and the student.

You know we used to have a saying in the Army that every regulation could be waived at least once. Perhaps if the young man had asked permission, he might have received it.

I think we should withhold judgement of the schools actions pending the details of the confrontation between the boy and the teacher.

Columbus GA is just outside the main gate at Ft. Benning. I rather doubt that this young man is the only student in the school who has a parent who is deployed.

Perhaps the simple courtesy of going to the assistant prinicpal's office and saying, mom is going to try to call today at lunch time, may I use my cell phone then, would have gone a long way to keep this from happening. If the lad had done that, and the school had refused him, we would have reason to be outraged. And if the school is suspending him because he used his cell phone as part of a zero tolerance policy that insists all circumstances are the same, then we can be outraged. But we don't know that and probably won't know the details because of the laws prohibiting the schools from discussing these things. So we're going to hear one side of the story and everyone is going to get outraged. That's the kind of things that sells a lot of newspapers.

I say we shouldn't rush to judgement. It seems like the only time we don't rush to judgement around here anymore is when a CCW holder is indicted or charged after a defensive shooting. Everyone else is guilty by the virtue of the media reports. :confused:

Jeff
 
Jefnvk, was this grandmother getting shot at daily? Avoiding rocket propelled grenades? Was the dad in your scenario dodging Improvised explosive devices on his way to the terminal gate of his flight? Probably not huh?
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Sorry, but that doesn't fly with me. My grandmother is as important to me as that kid's mother is to him. Telling me that the kid's mother is a more valid call than my grandmother's is not helping the situtation any, just creating a special class of people. Glad sheis serving, but that doesn't mean the kid can expect special exceptions to the rules.

Just out of curiosity, what if the grandmother in my scenario lived in Israel, and was dodging car bombs every day. Or lived in Africa, where any day the military might come in and wipe out their village. Does that make the call more acceptable?
 
I'm a teacher. In my opinion, you find out the kid's on the phone with his mom in Iraq, you make sure he has a quiet, private place to talk.
 
Jeff White, we have a saying in the Marine Corps too. It is better to ask forgiveness than to beg permission. In other words, do what you have to do to get the job done, then worry about the paper work.

To those who say the teacher had no way of knowing it was his mom on the phone.... is the teacher incapable of saying "may I please speak to her for a second?". She is, afterall, ON THE PHONE THE TEACHER IS ARGUING OVER!

As far as his past behavior goes, what bearing does that have on him talking to his mother?? Everything you do these days is a felony and your rights are taken, I guess we are now extending this mentality to the schools, great way to raise the next generation. He isn't a perfect angel? Well gee, his dad died and his mom got sent to war, I am sure that would make everyone into perfectly chearful little angels wouldn't it?

I must say thank you to all those involved in the public school system who posted here, you have made my decision to start home schooling that much easier.
 
As far as his past behavior goes, what bearing does that have on him talking to his mother??
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Believe it or not, there are some habitual problem children in schools. Something they may do someday might not get an otherwise non-problematic child in too much trouble, but when they do it, just is compounded because of their past behavior.

And I think many problems in the public school system would be solved if parents were parents, and when their child misbehaved in school, supported the school's punishment and not their 'perfect little angel'
 
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