Garand Powder flash question

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by bbqreloader, Apr 17, 2018.

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  1. bbqreloader
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    bbqreloader Contributing Member

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    To start: Garand 30-06, Hornady load data. Loaded H4895 and H335.
    For H335 41.6-42.8 gr
    I was getting flash from the lower range of the test rounds until I got to the 42.6 and almost no flash at the 42.8.
    So my question, is what causes the flash at the lower powder level but causes it to become non existent at the higher level?

    The H4895 performed perfectly, 44.6 ran the bolt, might try a test run at 44.0 thru 44.4.
    The H335 was nice because of the softer shots but was immediately turned off by the flash.
     
  2. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    The higher powder charge created more pressure on firing. The powder burns better and more completely.

    Less fuel to mix with oxygeon at the muzzle. The air to fuel ratio as to be just right.

    A magnum primer may help with H335, a ball powder?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
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  3. bbqreloader
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    bbqreloader Contributing Member

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    yes, H335 is a ball vs the stick powder of 4895. Was seeing if I could use what I have in stock vs adding another powder to the mix. Not impressed how the 4895 meters, as bad as 700x.
     
  4. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

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    That load of H4895 is kind of light... I'm surprised it cycled the bolt. You didn't mention what bullet weight you were shooting, though. I run 47grn IMR4895 or 46grn H4895 with a 149grn bullet in my Garand.

    243 is correct... the slightly bigger charge of H335... you found the sweet spot in the burn range for the combo you are using. He also mentioned magnum primers... some data suggests a magnum primer with H335, that would also alter the burn characteristics and. likely, the velocity numbers.
     
  5. Laphroaig

    Laphroaig Member

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    Ball powders are hard to light, and I suspect you were having a powder forward situation which further slowed down the ignition of the H335. Once the case was filled a little more the powder started to burn correctly. I used WC846 in my Garand for awhile and was amazed at how much of the charge was unburned. It still shot well though.
     
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  6. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Now try the same test in a 16" "tanker." ;)
     
  7. bbqreloader
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    bbqreloader Contributing Member

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    Charlie, ran it just fine, using 150gr FMJ from Everglades. Didnt throw the brass that far out either. Going to run a ladder test from 43.8 to 44.6 just for more info. But I loaded 2 clips worth of the 44.6 for targeting to see how they do. At the time I was just testing for function.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  8. bbqreloader
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    bbqreloader Contributing Member

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    Hey now, I'm just trying to understand testing in the Garand and there ya go throwing terms like "tanker" into the mess...:)
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
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  9. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

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    When I started loading for my Garand, I think I started at 45grns IMR4895, the ejected cases fairly dropped at my feet. I eventually standardized my load at 47grn and it has worked well for almost 20 years. You can tell, however... with the 47grn load the first 3 cases eject forward (1 O'clock) and the remaining 5 eject to 3-4 O'clock, I think this is due to the lighter loading; I could probably bump up to somewhere around 49grn IMR4895... but I don't see any need to punish the old girl.

    For reference, my 47grn IMR4895 and a 145grn Prvi FMJ bullet give me 2650fps with commercial brass and a #34 primer, 46grn H4895 gives me 2800fps, everything else being the same.
     
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  10. bbqreloader
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    bbqreloader Contributing Member

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    Charlie, thanks for the info.
    I haven't run any loads thru a chrono yet, that'll be the outside range at some point. I'm not interested in punishing the rifle either. I just want to find a nice load that operates the bolt and accurate. I got a piece of history, plan to have some fun, but hopefully pass it down to one of my kids.
     
  11. bbqreloader
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    bbqreloader Contributing Member

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    Ran some more tests using H4895, skipped the H335. Went 43.8 44.0 44.2 44.4, same 150gr FMJ. All functioned just fine, but really liked the 44.6 that I ran in my first tests. Think Im staying with that until I get to a 100 yd + range and see what happens. Although first valuable lesson, the front sight apparently likes to work loose and do some traveling:cuss: Tightened it down again and back on target
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  12. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    For years now I have been loading 46.0gr H4895 under a 150gr bullet for my M1. That load us lighter than the original military load and very accurate for me. Your load is very light, you should try more powder. You said you're using Hornady M1 data, they list 46.4gr as the high side with velocities of only 2600 fps.

    If you don't like the way H4895 meters there is a good alternative although I'm not sure why you find H4895 to meter poorly. Accurate makes AA2495 which was developed to mimic the pressure curve of 4895. They also make AA2520 which is the Ball powder equivalent of AA2495 so if you like the results of 4895 but prefer a Ball powder give AA2520 a try.
     
  13. bbqreloader
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    bbqreloader Contributing Member

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    Arch, thanks for the info. Since its the first time I have ever loaded for this rifle and with all the warnings about high pressure, just wanted to play safe for now, with out beating the crap out of it. Although the H4895 works quite well, the stick powder jambs in the rotor most of the time when I go to throw a charge, causing it to over/under feed. I may give the AA2520 a try. Maybe everyone does it differently, but I have to weigh every case with a charge in it to make sure it's accurate. I had the same issue when I first was running 700X, for other rounds, stopped using it.
     
  14. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    The warnings about powder are more about powder speed than pressure. It's not the pressure itself, it's it's the pressure curve. You don't want the pressure still building when the gasses hit the hole in the barrel.

    I use 4350 for all my 30-06 ammo but for what is fired in the M1. That ammo gets faster powders like IMR4895, H4895, AA2495, AA2520, AA4064, IMR4064 and similar powders. The op-rod in the Garand us getting harder to find and becoming very expensive, we don't want to damage it...
     
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