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GEICO cancels car insurance over guns!!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by hk-sigman, Jan 23, 2013.

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  1. blarby

    blarby Member

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    Royal beds are put on by dealers all the time onto CC's- they aren't manufactured that way. Same with Doug beds.

    It stil has a CC VIN number- and thats how we snag them in underwriting.

    Ally doesn't care either way, they'll pretty much finance anything.

    The loan isn't necessarily what makes it commercial- its use most certainly does.

    You can have a commercial vehicle on a personal loan, and a personal loan on a commercial vehicle in some circumstances... righand/foremen in the oilfields do the latter all the time. Some states allow you to, some don't. I used it simply to help illustrate the difference. In a world where anything is seemingly possible, perhaps I should not have been so absolute. *summarily falls on sword just for you*

    On the other hand, your F/I guy who typed up your paperwork might have simply goofed and checked the wrong box- intentionally or unintentionally...I've seen it go both ways on that one. ( I did a stint with a Dodge dealer as a salesman, and also transacted a whole heap of dealership generated auto insurance ... someone goes to buy a car, has no insurance, and they call me....... )

    You can also have split use vehicles- you see a lot of these with high mileage professions like real estate agents.. you might have say 40% business use, and 60% personal...and companies can and do rate them that way. The key here is finding someone who can lay that out for ya.

    Sales contracts vary by state- most states have the designation on vehicle sales contracts- yours may not.

    Its foremost use ( business or personal- on the sales contract) is determining applicable use and registration taxes. California in particular loves this one.

    Teach : You can have the commercial designation removed from a pickup in California... but if you get caught hauling anything in the bed, and it isn't registered right, you can get in hot, finey waters. I had a few clients try this with mixed results when arney cranked up the registration fees... remember those good ole days ? Lol,,,,,,,,

    Just out of curiosity, what do you use the truck for ?


    FWIW- can you see how someone having a commercial-bodied truck, and a flatbed bodied truck, might lead someone to believe they were both being used for some sort of business ? Believe it or not, there are some companies that stipulate that you must insure all the vehicles in your household/business/under your name- with their company to address some of the questions that might arise out of such a situation. Some also stipulate that if they don't insure all of "your" autos- that they know who does...and they want VIN #\s and policy numbers, ta boot.

    Ya, insurance is a crazy world, I know. But no one counts beans like the bean counters in U/W and Actuarial, believe me. The IRS could take a lesson.........

    In the case of a flat bed, it may come down to the things you could put on it, vs what you might be limited to in a standard box. Usually it just has to do with modification- but every company has different requirements.

    If you had a company that really wanted the business, you might be able to get by with a statement signed under penalty of perjury that you weren't using it for business or commercial purposes...which absolves them of just about all the wrong types of liability. Again, some would do this- and some wouldn't. It also might come down to whether they believed you or not. Starting the application process with gross mis-statements will not endear you to any underwriter. Being a long standing policyowner, or new business from an agency with a good history and an agent going to bat for you certainly would.


    Sadly, I dont think any of this has much bearing on the subject at hand, but it was a neat sidestreet !
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  2. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    This is what I was referring to when I said,
    In my experience doing business in several sectors of the firearms and firearms-related industry, you NEVER GET THAT. Instead you get what I referred to as, "a no-accountability "explanation".

    That's all fine and good, and I just filled out paperwork to renew the general commercial liability insurance for our manufacturing business earlier this week (and expect it to be well into the five digits for 2013). But that is what commercial general liability insurance is for and what it is covered under. The company in question makes small machined parts and the likelihood of there being a specific business reason or risk that GEICO could articulate and would hold up to examination is virtually zero, in my opinion. They certainly did not articulate a specific risk for Short Lane LLC in that letter.
     
  3. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Since no one in this thread is the policy holder nor does anyone know if the policy holder got an explanation from GEICO how can any reasonably informed discussion take place?

    Has anyone contacted GEICO to get an explanation?
     
  4. blarby

    blarby Member

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    Snopes did, and they got about all the information one could reasonably get without breaching personal and business disclosure issues........

    What they got, I believe, speaks volumes to the situation in a few short words.

    I certainly can in the morning if it would further the cause........
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  5. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    Well, having pretty much gotten fed up with the back and forth bickering on this subject, I actually took that initiative when I saw this question crop up yet again in my notifications.

    Source:

    http://www.geico.com/about/contactus/phone/


    I contacted Geico through their commercial auto insurance number (1-866-509-9440) and asked them the following:

    ME: "I need to know if Geico provides commercial automobile coverage for vehicles which would be used in the transportation of firearms for a business which is involved in commercial sales and repair of firearms."

    ANSWER: "No, unfortunately we do not. You will have to find another insurance company for that purpose."


    Now, I did ask a few other related questions, such as recommendations for insurance companies who would and if the reason Geico does not is because of risk assessment with providing insurance for such a business use. (No recommendations except to search for "firearms insurance" online and the reason was due to risk assessment.)

    However, this person is a salesperson, not a corporate executive, so I did not spend more than a minute or two with her on the phone. She knows company policy, but will not know the full extent of the underlying reasons for why on such specific matters. This means that likely she won't really know whether or not the reason for not providing such coverage is due to "risk assessment" as I asked, or if it's a political motivation by corporate executives. So I did not pursue any further.


    BOTTOM LINE:

    Geico does not provide commercial auto insurance for vehicles which are involved in the firearms business.



    Seems to me as if this matter is closed, as the only thing left to debate is the reason WHY. Unless someone else wishes to take this to the next higher level and contact the Big-Cheese-What's-In-Charge of Geico and delve into this mystery, this debate has already become circular with both sides having expressed their opinions on this.

    Make your decision to buy or not to buy Geico however each of you may feel about this.

    :scrutiny:
     
  6. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Thank you, RetiredUSNChief. Doing something similar was on my to-do list but I've been spending all my extra time fighting the Colorado anti-gun bills the last week.
     
  7. jdh

    jdh Member

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    Towing the Travel Trailer, boat, or car trailer. Trips to the dump, parts house, home improvement store, Grocery store, range or hunting lease. Pulling stumps. Getting stuck, pulling the stuck truck out and getting the suburban stuck in the process. As a mobile amateur radio station. AND while the car is getting the engine rebuilt it is my daily driver. One the other have not that much really since it is a 2010 and has a whopping 12.5k on the odometer.
     
  8. blarby

    blarby Member

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    Well, there ya have it.

    Thanks chief, I've been busy bangin it out over our current crisis here in Oregon... thanks for taking the time.
     
  9. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "as the only thing left to debate is the reason WHY."

    The usual reason an insurance company won't insure a particular industry is because they don't have experts on the payroll with the extensive knowledge of that industry that's needed. You have to know how the industry should be run and what the dangers are before you can begin to calculate the risks and calculate the level of premiums necessary to cover the risks.

    Does Geico insure ocean going container ships?
    Will Geico insure a coal mine?
    How about a privately owned space shuttle?
    Etc.

    Speaking of insuring dangerous activities, is Lloyds of London still the go-to agency for insuring unusual activities? The way they do it is by spreading the risk around. Lloyd's isn't a single company, it's a collection of 80 syndicates as they call them and they often take fractional shares of a policy. It limits exposure in the event of a disaster such as a ship sinking or an oil spill.
     
  10. blarby

    blarby Member

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    Yep- lloyds is the go to for the crazy stuff.

    They still do a fair amount of "normal" insurance under the lloyds umbrella, but if you need it.....and can pay the 10%....

    YOU CALL THE LLOYDS TEAM !


    Ahh, the syndicate....

    What I find most interesting about lloyds is that families and houses which participated in "underwrtiting" the first oceangoing contracts are still cycling that money by insuring risk today.... now thats money at work.... REAL old money.
     
  11. Steve CT

    Steve CT Member

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    Still no knowledge about whether the policyholder properly identified the business the vehicle was used in.
     
  12. blarby

    blarby Member

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    I think we'll have to go with "no" he did not.

    Per all of the rest.......
     
  13. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    You're welcome, guys.

    ;)
     
  14. codysalvick

    codysalvick Member

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    Well, it’s time to shop. I have The Hartford insurance and I’m quite happy with them. Maybe approach them for a quote? Good luck!
     
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