GET YOUR MONEY TOGETHER!!!!

[tightgroup tiger]

I remember when that came out. I always figured it was to keep all the brass trimmings out of your loading press when trimming with their powered brass trimmer on the press and swaging primer pockets at the same time.

I liked the concept, but the price was way more than I would have paid, even if I was a triple D. (Devoted Dillon Dude)

You would have to loads .223s by the 5 gallon bucket full to make that purchase cost effective.

JMorris, I can't believe you don't have one. Oh yeah, you built yours.

 

[Skgreen]

With the announcement of any 'new model', one should never forget about the bean-counters.

In this case, the additional $50 MSRP should be indicative of what one might expect to receive in return. Maybe.

I work for a publicly-traded corporation. I've sat through enough 'Town-Hall' meetings to realize that sometimes, the phrase "New and Improved" can take on a whole new meaning,,,

'New' is for the Consumer and "improved' is often just for our own profitability.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

New' is for the Consumer and "improved' is often just for our own profitability.

I wanted to say that but being I a Hornady user, I thought it may sound a little biased.

Marketing will always be Marketing, that's a constant that will never change.

Dillon went to a cheaper to build primer system and is toting it as an improved press to try to try to justify it with their market base by saying it's safer.

Maybe it is safer, I don't know, I don't run a 650XL. What I do know is someone will still find a way of screwing it up and setting off a tube full of primers.

There are a lot of pictures on the net floating around with Hornady primer feed tubes sticking in their ceilings.

I'm sure it will appeal to some of their market base if it is simpler to deal with. So who's to say it won't be more successful than the XL650. It is the same machine after all with just a few changes.
We will have to wait to see if their primer system, that now is the same now as everyone else's except Lee, is any more trouble free than the other brands of presses that use that style.
Time will tell.

 

[GW Staar]

Shucks guys, I remember when there was the first scare....people actually got hurt from RCBS Rock Chucker primer tubes. Then they built outer tubes to make the explosions go up not out in your face. There was no internet then, but the news still got around when RCBS was asked why the extra tube.

Lee built what they thought was a better mousetrap.....tray feed....but they exploded too....mainly from Federal Primers.....Lee added the "no Federal" disclaimer at that time. Then they started making better hand primers. People like me, dumped the on-press tube loaders, and bought Lees improved hand primers......RCBS followed with their own.

Dillon for their part started out their on-press primers with "shielded" tubes. Years later RCBS tried something different. Strip Primers. Way safer, but most reloaders passed. If Dillon had invented APS it would have been a hit....unfortunately they didn't.......so here we are..... Dillon is obviously dead tired of replacing primer system parts for free, because some people load like bulls charging a china closet, and force what won't go easy.

IF IT AIN'T EASY, STOP jmorris already suggested......easy to say....some find it hard to do. Maybe this new "small step" will save Dillon a lot of money. Bet so. Cheaper build, more bull proof, no more primer system replacement parts flooding out Dillon's doors. And there's gravy too: higher mouth for up to .338 Lupua, smoother rotation for pistol loaders so they can keep their powder in the cases....another "bull" factor. You don't have to spin your press to load faster....but some are never happy.

 

[Nature Boy]

The XL750 isn't, evidently, a new press.....it is an improved press. I'm looking forward to the improved Pro Chucker 7, hoping its not a "new" press again.... nor one that takes 25 years to improve. Necessary tweaking aside, I'm really getting used to 7 stations.

From what I’ve read so far, not “improved” enough for me to trade in my 650 for one.

I have dedicated tool heads for all the calibers I load for so even a primer size change takes me 5 min tops. Going from .308-6mmBRA-45ACP I don’t even need to change the shell plate.

 

[LiveLife]

While happy with my 650 but curious what the 750 has to offer.

 

[Walkalong]

but curious what the 750 has to offer.

Yep.

 

[hotshot357]

Nice looking set-up Nature Boy!!!!

 

[GW Staar]

Yes, nice.......and clean. Mine looks that clean once or twice a year.....

From what I’ve read so far, not “improved” enough for me to trade in my 650 for one.

I hear you, still 5 stations and.....you've invested a lot of money and time to make what you got sing symphonies!.... and you've learned to use it without blowing any parts up. That said, what I'd be interested in knowing is whether Dillon will have "Kits" to upgrade your press. Bet the other parts haven't changed.

But why would someone like you want to upgrade when you like the primer system you have? I know all about that......I bought a P.C.7 when I knew I had a hell of a better primer system in my P 2K. There are "other" reasons......like a smooth as glass shell plate rotation, or maybe you would like to buy and reload for a .338 Lupua . Dillon would be stupid not to make upgrade kits.....that would be so.....unDillon?

 

[Nature Boy]

But why would someone like you want to upgrade when you like the primer system you have?

That’s a good question. If the primary difference is the priming mechanism, and a majority of 650 owners are happy with it, there won’t be many sales to existing customers.

The “no BS warrant” is in effect, so I’m sure they will continue to have spare parts for the 650, including the soon to be obsolete priming system.

 

[GW Staar]

The “no BS warrant” is in effect, so I’m sure they will continue to have spare parts for the 650, including the soon to be obsolete priming system.

Maybe.....maybe not. They may choose to obsoletize (new word?) the primer system and "forcefully upgrade" your primer system.....so don't have a kaboom

 

[Nature Boy]

Maybe.....maybe not. They may choose to obsoletize (new word?) the primer system and "forcefully upgrade" your primer system.....so don't have a kaboom

I’ve read the 650 isn’t upgradeable to the 750 so I guess they’d have to replace the entire press.

 

[GW Staar]

I’ve read the 650 isn’t upgradeable to the 750 so I guess they’d have to replace the entire press.

Where did you read that? Guys talking to Dillon on the phone said that the new priming system allowed them to open the mouth enough for 338 Lapua. That would seem to suggest that the casting is unchanged.....doesn't the picture appear to be unchanged? That would indicate that upgrades would be possible....why would they not?

Replace the entire press? Never gonna happen, people would be putting on ear plugs and lighting up their presses just so they can get the improvements.

If the primary difference is the priming mechanism, and a majority of 650 owners are happy with it, there won’t be many sales to existing customers.

Exactly! Which would seem to me that in the best interest to both customers and Dillon, Dillon would want to offer upgrade kits. It's also obvious to me that their best interest is served if existing 650's lose the rotary primer system ........ in a "profitable" way!

And how does it hurt profitability if they no longer have to send replacement primer parts to those bulls who mangle them in a loud and scary way?

 

[LiveLife]

I’ve read the 650 isn’t upgradeable to the 750

Where did you read that?

Post #14 - I specifically asked Dillon tech on the phone if 650 was updateable to 750 or if they were planning to offer an upgrade kit and he said no.

Just got off the phone with Dillon and release of 750 was confirmed in about a week:

• 750 is an updated and improved 650
• Has improved indexing
• Will cost $50 more than 650
• Current 650 CANNOT be updated to 750

 

[GW Staar]

I specifically asked Dillon tech on the phone if 650 was upgradeable to 750 or if they were p;anning to offer an upgrade kit and he said no.

If that's true......then Dillon has decision makers as short sighted as RCBS does! Welcome to my world.

It reminds me of RCBS only offering their 7 station press with $250 die plate combos....you had to buy a giant-hopper powder measure with each and every die plate! Very expensive to add a caliber! I complained immediately (I already had 4 p.m.'s). I told an engineer that I would never buy a Pro Chucker until they offered die plates by themselves.....and I didn't, and neither did a lot of others.....and I think that flaw killed sales worse than their early primer system flaw.

It took them 18 months to come to their senses. They asked me how that would be smart, thinking repeated changing of those heavy power measures wouldn't be efficient? I said, "by selling separate powder dies, so one could be set up permanently on each die plate." He said, "oh!" So they brought out separate powder dies the same day they brought out separate die plates. (about 5 years late on the powder dies....coulda used those on my Pro 2000 too, instead of having to buy nearly identical Hornady versions!)

I related the above because if you can ask to talk to a real engineer, you can make a difference.....it takes time in a big corporation like RCBS is a part of, but the engineers are listened to, especially when marketing screws up royally like they did. Dillon doesn't have that corp. problem....so change should happen faster when they screw up. But customers need to speak up.

 

[jmorris]

You would have to loads .223s by the 5 gallon bucket full to make that purchase cost effective.

JMorris, I can't believe you don't have one.

I’m a 5 gallon bucket guy but I still use a 650 for prep and 1050 to load, different bench these days but same equipment.

 

[Texas10mm]

If that's true......then Dillon has decision makers as short sighted as RCBS does! Welcome to my world.

It reminds me of RCBS only offering their 7 station press with $250 die plate combos....you had to buy a giant-hopper powder measure with each and every die plate! Very expensive to add a caliber! I complained immediately (I already had 4 p.m.'s). I told an engineer that I would never buy a Pro Chucker until they offered die plates by themselves.....and I didn't, and neither did a lot of others.....and I think that flaw killed sales worse than their early primer system flaw.

It took them 18 months to come to their senses. They asked me how that would be smart, thinking repeated changing of those heavy power measures wouldn't be efficient? I said, "by selling separate powder dies, so one could be set up permanently on each die plate." He said, "oh!" So they brought out separate powder dies the same day they brought out separate die plates. (about 5 years late on the powder dies....coulda used those on my Pro 2000 too, instead of having to buy nearly identical Hornady versions!)

I related the above because if you can ask to talk to a real engineer, you can make a difference.....it takes time in a big corporation like RCBS is a part of, but the engineers are listened to, especially when marketing screws up royally like they did. Dillon doesn't have that corp. problem....so change should happen faster when they screw up. But customers need to speak up.

Does Ford sell an upgrade kit so you can make your 2001 F150 a 2019 F150?

 

[higgite]

Does Ford sell an upgrade kit so you can make your 2001 F150 a 2019 F150?

Yes, they call it a trade-in.

 

[GW Staar]

Yes, they call it a trade-in.

And the new model traded for has new upholstery, tail lights, and front grill.

 

[jmorris]

Does Ford sell an upgrade kit so you can make your 2001 F150 a 2019 F150?

I don’t think so but if they had a lifetime no BS warranty the 2001’s would be worth a lot more and more of them would still be on the road.

The auto industry is build around a planned obsolescence industry, like cell phones and computers.

 

[Texas10mm]

I don’t think so but if they had a lifetime no BS warranty the 2001’s would be worth a lot more and more of them would still be on the road.

The auto industry is build around a planned obsolescence industry, like cell phones and computers.

If Ford trucks came with a no BS warranty they would cost around $250,000 each.

I just think it's crazy that someone would expect a upgrade kit for a 26 year old press.

I've got two 650 presses. One from 2000 and one from 2018. Those two presses have a lot of differences on them. I don't expect Dillon to sell an upgrade for earlier press to what the new press is. Nor do I expect Dillon to sell me a kit to make them 750 presses.

Dillon is going to sell every 750 they can build. If some 650 owner out there feels slighted then I've got a deal for ya. I'll give you $200 for that obsolete 650 and it's accessories, you pay shipping, and you can buy that new shiny 750 press.

 

[higgite]

If Ford trucks came with a no BS warranty they would cost around $250,000 each.

So, I have to ask, why are we comparing Ford F150s to Dillon presses? That's just about as apples and oranges as it gets.

 

[GW Staar]

I just think it's crazy that someone would expect a upgrade kit for a 26 year old press.

I just think it's crazy that they wouldn't.....these aren't cars that wear out in 3-5 years. If they didn't change anything but a few bolt-on parts (on an identical casting), and If they were really worried about possible kabooms (which one Dillon spokesman offered as one of the reasons for the new model), it would seem obvious (and profitable) to offer upgrade kits to get all those "possibly dangerous" priming systems out reloading rooms.

Most 650 owners will keep theirs...Texas10mm is obviously one of them. So why wouldn't they offer "kits" to entice you guys to spend your money.....rather than continue to give out free replacement parts for the mangled parts of a 26 year-old press. I see a gold mine, replacing a thorn in their sides, is all.

But maybe the casting IS new and different. If so, then OK, I can see your point. But if so Dillon missed an opportunity IMO. We will see. Comparing reloading presses to cars? Thank goodness they aren't comparable. You'd buy a press that they expect you to trade in every 3 to 5 years?

BTW, how many of you guys will buy Lupua's sniper rifles and reload for them? Now you can, but they are almost as expensive to reload as .50's. I don't personally see a big market for that to warrant a new model.

It's going to be fun to see what's what with this upgrade......2 more days!

One more thing....just because I don't currently own a Dillon, doesn't mean I don't appreciate them. Fine presses that fit a lot of people....so don't get the impression I'm being negative. I just see an opportunity lost if they don't offer kits.

 

[Texas10mm]

The casting on my new 650 is different than the casting on my old 650.

To get the .338 L to fit I'm guessing they had to use a bigger casting.

So you don't like the car analogy.

Let's use guns. Would you expect a gun company to offer a kit to upgrade an older model of gun to a new model of gun?

Perhaps Colt offering a kit to upgrade the duckbill grip safety to a beaver tail grip safety.

 

[Texas10mm]

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/276828-get-your-money-together/?do=findComment&comment=3084742

If this is true it's why you won't see a upgrade kit. The frame is machined different.