Getting a Premium rifle,scope combo for my son.

[Geno]

Beak50:

Have you considered a Winchester M70 Super Grade in .30-06 Sprg? Handloaded to 3,150 fps, with 165 grain projectiles, it rivals the .300 Win Mag to 500 yards. This rifle can be had for about $1,050.00 (in my area). That leave a good bit of funds for a very nice scope, rings, base, case, and considerable reloading supplies. I have one of the new Super Grades, and it is quite the gem! It is very accurate. Here is a link:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=001C&mid=535107

Geno

 

[finnwolf64]

Buy him a Sako Bavarian in either .308 or 30/06. Fit it with a Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44mm scope. Your son will have a centerfire rifle that will last for life & one he will never want to trade.

 

[Flintknapper]

Another thing to consider...if you want to give him a really "lasting" gift, would be to buy him a reasonably priced (but accurate rifle/scope combo) THEN spend the rest of the money on reloading equipment.

Nearly every young person I have exposed to reloading...took a great interest in it. If he had his own reloading set up (supplies) he would learn another aspect of shooting that many folks miss out on.

Too, being of such a young age...he has a whole lifetime of benefit ahead of him. It is also...something that Dad, Son and other family members can participate in together.

Unless the Lad is Materialistic, he will enjoy a reasonably priced rifle just fine, but will LOVE the time spent with Dad...reloading and then shooting his own creations.

Just a thought.


Flint.

 

[Beak50]

My son has litterally mastered that win 30-30 and a bolt 308 carbine"it's my fin laws I believe a remington.Sako and Cooper are the one's we are leaning to not even a Mag Rd. Were thinking a 6.5x55 since I have heard nothing but praise for them and I was wanting to buy an old 6.5x55 swede anyway.My son and fin law both got Buck's at or camp in Tionesta this year.Also he is an amazing shot!He is left handed but shoot's Rt.handed go figure?He is a Big Boy for his age.Plus we already have a 7RM,300 Win Mag,30-06,270 Never counted I'm more into Mil-surp's But between the two of us not including pistol's from Muzzel loader's to 220 swift there isn't much missing caliber wise.He just sold a 264 win mag so were down one and we don't have a 50BMG cal.thank's for all the time you guy's I'll let you know what happen's.Now come's Premium Optics.Thanks Beak

 

[Beak50]

We also Re-Load every thing we shoot I'm still learning but my fin law has been doing it since before I was born.So I have acess to a special re-loading room anytime I can get there.But being disabled I can't stand or sit fo to long at one time.Thank's agian all you guy's!

 

[BrainOnSigs]

Cooper Arms Model 56

 

[Lloyd Smale]

youll get plenty of posts warning not to buy a magum from guys that just cant handle them or arent willing to put in the time to master them. A 7mag or even a 300 mag surely doesnt kick so much it actually hurts a grown man. It may startle an inexperienced shooter but certianly isnt going to cause bodily injury. Ive shot truck loads of deer with both mags and non mags and do i think there nessisary. Probably not but in some hunting situations they defineately have advantages. I chuckle at guys that will go run and hide from a 7mag but will recomend someone buy a 270 or 06. The differnce in recoil between those three is pretty minor and if you can shoot one of them you can surely shoot any of the three. What would I buy. If it were my money higher end reminton or a winchester save about 600 bucks for a good scope and you could buy a good gun and have about 1500 bucks left over. Maybe buy him a loading outfit or something else.

 

[moxie]

With a 14 year old, regardless of his size, I'd go the other direction. By that I mean a smaller caliber, relatively light shooting rifle that would allow/prompt/discipline him to really master handling and trigger control. A 7MM-08 or .243 would be perfect.

 

[jmr40]

Have you considered a Winchester M70 Super Grade in .30-06 Sprg? Handloaded to 3,150 fps, with 165 grain projectiles, it rivals the .300 Win Mag to 500 yards.

I like the rifle choice, but would like to know more about this load. That is almost 250 fps faster than any of my loading manuls show, and better than most of the 300 win mag loads for a 165 gr bullet.

 

[Geno]

jmr40:

Agreed, it is well over what contemporary manuals indicate. The contemporary manuals appear to be about a 10% reduction over the older manuals. The load I reference is specifically for modern day bolt-actions.

I don't recall the load off the top of my head. I read it in a hunting magazine some time back, and it has been discussed here at THR. I think Art Eatman also knows the load, and should be able to clarify. In the meantime, I'll look about and see if I can relocate the recipe.

Edit to add thread link: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=634049&highlight=3,150

This one is fairly close, using IMR 4350:

Edit to add kink: http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/d...ld&Weight=All&type=Rifle&Order=Powder&Source= (About half-way down page)

Geno

 

[jmr40]

My manuals show 60 Gr of IMR 4350 to be max load, but to expect 2900 fps, not 3100 as the guy who posted that claims. I use that same load but at 58.5 gr and am getting about 2800 fps. from a 22" barrel. I suppose another 1.5 gr and a 26-28" barrel might break 3000 fps, but I have my doubts about 3100.

At any rate a 30-06 is an excellent choice. In an earlier post I suggested a 300 WSM because the OP specifically said a magnum round was OK for him and his son. If you're handloading anyway I think it is a lot easier and safer to download the magnum to 308 levels than try to hotrod a 30-06 to near magnum levels. You will get the magnum to perform like a 308, but will never quite reach the power levels while trying to load hot.

 

[CraigC]

My son has litterally mastered that win 30-30...

In three months??? Sounds like you need to buy an Anschutz and prep him for the Olympics!

I hate to keep pegging this and I know you're proud of your boy but to say that he has mastered a rifle in three months is something of an insult to those of us who have dedicated our lives to shooting and hunting.

 

[Geno]

jmr40:

I understand. But, the velocity I am referencing is from a 26" barrel, not 22". I was firing a Weatherby Mark V, 9-lug design, with a 26" barrel.

I did go back and check my specific load. However, I am not going to post the specific load I used, as it exceeds current reload manuals. I will say that my load exceeded 60 grains of 4350. It absolutely is doable.

Geno

 

[Certaindeaf]

Wasn't it Keith's contention that smallish men could handle recoil best?
Well, it was. He worked as a shooter/proofer at the proving grounds for some time.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I like the Kimber idea as well.

Not too long ago I saw a Dakota 76 with Leupold scope in 7mm-08 go for 3200. If you could sink your teeth into one of these at that price that would definitely be a no brainer.

 

[joed]

I like the Coopers but I don't know if I'd spend that much money on a hunting rifle. I might spring for a Winchester 70 or Remington 700 instead. But, I wouldn't mind a Cooper and for someone younger then me that would get a lifetime out of it it's a good rifle.

For cartridge I'd probably choose something like a .270 which doesn't punish you much and can be used to shoot about anything in the US. I had a 7mm Rem Mag and hated it, to much kick. I sold it and kept a .300 Mag. The .308 fits nicely here too or a .30-06.

But I see no use for a magnum in normal everyday use.

 

[Beak50]

Craigc,Maybe "mastered" was a little to much for your class of shooting.But when my fin law saw how he was shooting, he or I for that fact couldn't believe it and gave him the 308 bolt carbine with a scope and did just as well.Maybe it's because he's a south-paw but shoot's righty I really don't know.He has been shooting .22's for yrs.With the 30-30 he put 3 of 5 shots in the red and 2 darn near touching at 100 yrds.open sight's in my yard.We have yet to take him to a long range since most are only 200yrds. around here. Respectfully,Beak

 

[BrainOnSigs]

Beak50...I believe you. My 13 year old is pushing me. I have been shooting competitively and for fun plus plenty of hunting mixed in for over 30 years. My kid is a natural. Of course he has had an excellent teacher.

It is hard to teach wind dopage and how to read heat mirages, etc.....to get a real feel for it...especially when shooting 600-1000 yards...but the kid is a whiz.

If your son is responsible I still think a Cooper.....which it truly functional art.....in any caliber....would be something he would appreciate and eventually give to his kids someday. I know my son was overwhelmed when I presented him with his first Cooper recently.

 

[interlock]

well done for wanting to do this.

I don't really buy into the magnum concept.

How about a fairly decent rifle i remmy 700, a ruger m77 or something like that and a really good scope, a ziess, swarofski or schmit and bender with really good mounts.

the rifle, if correctly broken in will shoot sub moa for donkeys years. the glass will be the difference.

interlock

 

[Fullboar1]

Just get your son a Sako 85 IMHO the Quality, Consistency and Accuracy of the Sako's is better then the Cooper and Kimber. I have heard of a number of Coopers and Kimber that have had to be returned to the factory multipul times to get defects fixed also the Accuracy Guarantee of the Sako's is alot better then the other 2. I would look at the Sako FinnLight in 6.5x55, 260 if you just want to hunt deer, antelope ect, if you want to step up to Elk ect then go a FinnLight in 30-06 or if you want a magnum then have a look at the .300WSM (I wouldn't own another belted magnum if the short mags are avalible). Most of the calibers mentioned beside the 30-06 are IMO best served by handloading.

Now scopes have a look at the Zeiss Conquest, Meopta Meopro or Meostar, Minox ZA3 or ZA5, Sightron S11 BigSky or S111 line of scopes.

 

[Brian Williams]

How about a Cooper 21 in 221 Fireball, with the Varmint extreme setup, get a SWAROVSKI Z6/Z6i 2-12x50

 

[BrainOnSigs]

Just get your son a Sako 85 IMHO the Quality, Consistency and Accuracy of the Sako's is better then the Cooper and Kimber. I have heard of a number of Coopers and Kimber that have had to be returned to the factory multipul times to get defects fixed also the Accuracy Guarantee of the Sako's is alot better then the other 2. I would look at the Sako FinnLight in 6.5x55, 260 if you just want to hunt deer, antelope ect, if you want to step up to Elk ect then go a FinnLight in 30-06 or if you want a magnum then have a look at the .300WSM (I wouldn't own another belted magnum if the short mags are avalible). Most of the calibers mentioned beside the 30-06 are IMO best served by handloading.

I had issues with a Sako and a Tikka. Eventually made the switch to Cooper...now I have 5 of them now. Zero issues. I have a friend who owns 8 and his father owns 24. Out of the 37 rifles only one has had a issue (a rimfire) that was quickly rectified. Everyone's mileage...and experiences may vary.

As far as the accuracy guarantee.....

Sako guarantees any of their rifles, including the A7 to shoot 5 shots within a 1" circle (roughly one MOA) at 100 meters with hand-loaded match grade ammo.

Cooper rimfires are guaranteed to shoot 1/4" groups at 50 yards with match grade ammo. Cooper centerfires are guaranteed to shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards with hand-loaded match grade ammo. *5 shot groups for the 22LR, 3 shot groups for all others.

I hand load for all my Coopers and sub 1/4 MOA groups are achievable.

 

[squarepants33889]

I love my Sako 85 Hunter with Leupold VX-3L 4.5-14x50. Belted magnums may not be much fun at the bench, but an experienced big young lad had ought to be able to handle a 7mm Mag in the offhand position. As he gets older, the 7mm will serve him through nearly any hunting experience he's likely to enjoy. 7mm also has serves as a nice long range target platform for him if he finds he prefers the target shooting aspect.