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getting a silencer

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by mister hankey, May 15, 2005.

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  1. mister hankey

    mister hankey Member

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    I live in IL so im not totaly sure if i can get one but could someone tell me the steps to buy one and what is a good brand for a .22lr silencer.
     
  2. PaulBk

    PaulBk Member

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    Check http://www.packing.org to confirm, but I am pretty sure that owning a suppressor is illegal in IL and attaching it is probably a felony. Check to be sure.

    If you can legally use a suppressor try http://www.rimfire.com for many many opinions and reviews on available commercial suppressors and do-it-yourself stuff.

    -PB
     
  3. GreenFurniture

    GreenFurniture Member

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    Illinois is a non-suppressor state. Meaning you are SOL.
     
  4. mister hankey

    mister hankey Member

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    Could some one tell me the steps involed in getting one anyway I have benn wondering about it for awhile and even though i cant get one i can prove to my brother that they are legal in some places.
     
  5. GreenFurniture

    GreenFurniture Member

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    The steps, in non-banned states/cities/counties is:

    Find suppressor

    Fill out proper ATF form (usually ATF Form 4)

    Submit form to Chief Law Enforcement Officer (Chief of Police/Sheriff/Judge/DA) for your area for them to sign off on it stating that they know of no reason you shouldn't be able to own said item and that you are not a known criminal.

    Submit two copies of ATF form to ATF complete with signature of CLEO, two completed fingerprint cards, two recent "passport" photos and a check for $200 to cover the tax stamp.

    Then all that is left is to wait for approval and once approval is given you return to your friendly neighborhood FFL and pick up your new toy.

    At the moment, ATF approvals are coming down the line for suppressors between 60 and 90 days from reciept.

    This is the same procedure for a machine gun, AOW or SBR. The tax on the AOW is only $5.00 though. Everything else is still $200.00.

    States that do not allow suppressors for individual ownership: DE, DC, HI, IL, MS, NY, NJ, RI, CA, KS, MO, MN.

    States that allow only Class 3 or 2 Dealers for sales samples to LEO/MIL: CA, KS, MO, MN., IL, NY.
     
  6. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    check out

    small arms review magazine (found at finer bookstores everywhere)
    lots of ads for civilian legal "cool stuff"
     
  7. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    from a small arms review link

    http://www.gem-tech.com/legal.html
    Unlike conventional firearms, each change of possession or ownership of a Title 2 weapon (silencer, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun, pengun, etc.) must be approved in advance by BATF. This includes not only the sale of such a weapon, but also the act of giving or loaning it to another person. Failure to comply can result in a $250,000 fine, 10 years in prison, or both. Although the weapon can be moved by its registered owner within the owner's state or residence, transportation across state lines requires prior BATF approval. These requirements were instituted by the National Firearms Act of 1934 and were incorporated into the Gun Control Act of 1968.

    To the best of our knowledge, silencers are legal for private ownership in the following states: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI, and WY. Additionally, they maybe owned by Class 3 dealers and Class 2 manufacturers (but not individuals) in: CA, IA, KS, MA, MO, and MI. Territorial law prohibits possession in the Territories and Possessions of the United States. There are no known restrictions on governmental ownership. If your state is not listed, check with your local office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms or your state's Attorney General. If they are not legal in your state of residence, we cannot sell to you. Please do not ask us to violate state or federal law.

    As with any firearm, an individual owner must take possession through a licensed dealer in his state of residence. In the case of Title 2 weapons (silencers, machine guns, etc.), the dealer must be what is known as a class 3 dealer, meaning that he has paid an annual special occupational tax in conjunction with his firearms license to permit him to deal in Title 2 weapons without paying the individual $200 transfer tax on each weapon.

    The $200 transfer tax is assessed each time a Title 2 weapon changes hands. The exceptions are to (or from) a governmental agency or a class 3 dealer. Interestingly, many class 3 dealers do not have a storefront and deal in these weapons as a sideline..

    Each time a Title 2 weapon changes hands, the transfer must be approved in advance by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. It normally takes 4-5 weeks for BATF to approve the transfer between dealers or to law enforcement agencies, and the transfer to individuals requires 3-4 months.

    The procedure for obtaining one of our suppressors is to order (and pay for) the unit. The weapon should be ordered through your class 3 dealer. Although you may order direct, it must be delivered through your dealer. We then transfer the weapon to your class 3 dealer. Your dealer will then assist you in completing the necessary paperwork to transfer the weapon to you. This will include your submitting fingerprints and two passport size photos on your application. In addition, your local chief law enforcement officer (sheriff or chief of police) will need to sign the application. Along with your $200 transfer tax, the application is sent to BATF. When the application is approved (and not before), your dealer turns over possession to you.

    Your dealer will charge a fee for handling of the weapon. We are not in the business of being a sales tax collector for states other than Idaho, but we do not encourage your avoidance of sales or use taxes.

    If you are eligible to own any conventional firearm, you are also eligible to own a Title 2 weapon provided that there are no state laws prohibiting such ownership. This means basically that you must be free of all felony convictions and be over 21 years of age.

    Your dealer can usually help you find a suitable law enforcement signature in the rare instance where your sheriff is personally anti-gun and refuses to sign your application. Your other option is to form a corporation, which does not require a law enforcement signature.

    Federal law prohibits exportation of silencers except to governmental agencies with an End User Certificate. Please contact us by telephone for further details if you represent a foreign government agency.


    WARRANTY STATEMENT
    The Magnuson-Moss Act (Public Law 93-637) does not require any seller or manufacturer of a consumer product to give a written warranty. It does provide that if a written warranty is given, it must be designated at "full" or as "limited" and sets minimum standards for a "full" warranty. Gemtech has elected not to provide any written warranty, either "limited" or "full," rather than to attempt to comply with the provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Act and the regulations issued there under. There are certain implied warranties under state law with respect to sales of consumer goods. As the extent and interpretation of these implied warranties varies from state to state, you should refer to your state statutes. Gemtech certifies that all sound suppressors manufactured by them are free of defects in materials or workmanship, and that they meet manufacturing specifications at the time of manufacture. It is our intent that the customer be completely satisfied with the product.?

    Certain Gemtech products may be classified as ordnance and/or implements of war and are sold by us with the specific understanding that Gemtech has taken every reasonable precaution in providing our customers with inherently safe merchandise, and that we assume no liability whatsoever for unsafe handling by the purchaser or his agents. Gemtech assumes no responsibility whatsoever and we will honor no claims for damages, regardless of nature, for physical injury or property damage resulting from careless and/or irresponsible handling, adjustments to equipment, neglect or abuse. Gemtech reserves the right to make changes at any time and without notice, in prices, to change specification or design, to add or remove accessory materials, and to add or delete items without incurring any obligation.
     
  8. 20cows

    20cows Member

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    If the gun you would use the silencer on is a rifle, then it can be "suppressed" by using CB caps or CB longs. Out of my 10/22, a CB long does not sound as loud as my Sheridan 5mm pellet rifle, but has much more power. There is no flash either, BTW.

    It will not cycle the action, but it doesn't jam it either. You just manually pull the bolt (it makes it a "bolt action"). Even in a handgun, the caps don't make a whole lot of noise.
     
  9. lunaslide

    lunaslide Member

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    Gemtech of Idaho makes some pretty outstanding suppressors. I had the pleasure of shooting several of them this past weekend at the Albany Rifle and Pistol Club Machine Gun Shoot in Oregon. The Outback II is their latest .22LR suppressor. All you hear is the movement of the gun's action and the round hitting the target :) In full auto, it's a slight hiss.
     
  10. GreenFurniture

    GreenFurniture Member

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    Gemtech does make good suppressors. As does AWC.

    We sell the hell out of both!

    HKSOS.gif

    P22outback.gif
     
  11. 30 cal slob

    30 cal slob Member

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    Location, Location!
    2 liter soda bottle, sides covered with shaving cream. bottom bored out for bullet to pass through.

    There, you just saved yourself $500 + $200 tax.

    But, you'll be buying yourself a vaca to Club Fed if you get caught. :neener:

    My suggestion: Move if you really want NFA toys.
     
  12. 444

    444 Member

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    "If the gun you would use the silencer on is a rifle, then it can be "suppressed" by using CB caps or CB longs. "

    I am a big fan of suppressors and have purchased four of them including two of them in .22LR. One rifle and one pistol, both integral.
    They are very cool and IMO they are well worth owning. However, It is interesting to note that different firearms in .22 LR seem to vary greatly in how loud they sound. In .22 LR, it is very possible to find gun/ammo combinations that are very close to the sound level of a suppressor. One of my shooting buddies has an Mossberg M44 that is very quiet, even when using long rifle ammo. When he is shooting on the bench next to you, I wonder why I spent the money on a suppressor.

    There is a new suppressor, on-line forum that I am starting to read. It is http://www.silencertests.com/
    There seem to be a number of very knowlegable people on that board including people who work for some of the bigger suppressor manufacturers.
     
  13. dakotasin

    dakotasin Member

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    if you pay your tax stamp for a suppressor, do you need to have a stamp for every suppressed gun, or does one cover all?

    ie, i'd like to suppress half a dozen guns or so... do i have to submit paperwork and money for each gun? or each can? or what??
     
  14. Justin

    Justin Moderator Emeritus

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    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    You have to pay the tax on each individual suppressor.

    So far as I know, it is therefore legal to have a number of firearms threaded, and you can share the suppressor among them. (Say, if you had several .22 handguns and rifles and had the barrels threaded for each.)

    Of course, I have no idea how easy it is to have each firearm threaded the same.
     
  15. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    Pay it every time. The supressor is the registered part, and you can use it on any firearm that has a threaded barrel.

    Heh, Justin beat me to it...
     
  16. 444

    444 Member

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    You pay the $200 tax on the suppressor. Each suppressor.
    The gun, doesn't matter: it is just a gun. Providing of course that it isn't an NFA weapon. If you have a machine gun with a suppressor, you have to pay a tax stamp for the machine gun and another for the suppressor. If you have a short barreled rifle with a suppressor, you pay a tax on the SBR and another one on the suppressor.

    You can buy one suppressor and use it on a variety of different firearms provided they are chambered for the same cartridge. As mentioned, you can buy a .22LR can and use it on all your .22 LR handguns and rifles if you provide some means of mounting it.
    At some point in a thread such as this, someone will ask about buying one suppressor and using it on every gun they own regardless of caliber. While it is possible to use suppressors designed for a different caliber, it is usually less than optimal. For example, you can use your AR15 can with a .22LR conversion and it seems to work OK. But, as a general rule, you want a can specifically designed and built for the application your are using it on.

    A couple good versitile suppressors that I would like to own are the Gemtech Seahunter: http://www.gem-tech.com/seahunter.html and the Gemtech Trinity: http://www.gem-tech.com/TRINITY.html

    The Seahunter uses a quick detachable mount that looks very similar to the connector used on an air hose or something like that. You have these mounts put on your various .22LR firearms and you can snap the can on and off at will. Having this quick detachable mount is a must if you are using a tube fed .22 rifle since you can't load the tube with the can on the end of the barrel. The Seahunter is the most expensive Gemtech .22lr suppressor, but the fact that I can easliy use it on all my .22s makes it worth the money to me.
    The Trinity is also interesting since it seems that you can use it on all your 9mm stuff. I own several 9mm handguns, several 9mm carbines and a 9mm submachine gun. If I could use the same muzzle can on all of them, it would be a very nice addition.
     
  17. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    Not all of the time. My HK MP5SD upper is registered as "SBR/Suppressor" on a single tax stamp.
     
  18. 444

    444 Member

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    It is my understanding that since the MP5 is a submachine gun, you can put any length barrel you want on it and you do not need a tax stamp as an SBR.

    On the other hand, I own a Colt AR15 in 9mm. I bought an LRM suppressed upper for it. Since the barrel is shorter than 16" and the suppressor is removable, I had to register the AR as an SBR AND pay the tax on the suppressor.

    Please explain
     
  19. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    I think it is the "removable" part that is the defining factor. If the suppressor is integral to the barrel, you can do one stamp for the combination. If they come apart, you then have one of each. The way mine is registered, I can use a semi-auto trigger group without needing the MG exemption for the barrel. On the flip side, I have a short-barreled upper and detachable suppressor for my M16. While I can use the suppressor on my AR-15, I cannot use the short-barreled upper/suppressor combination without registering my AR as a SBR.
     
  20. 444

    444 Member

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    Ok, but if your MP5 suppressor is attached permenently, is it still shorter than legal length ?
    I would think that if it was over 16", then the whole SBR thing wouldn't matter ?
     
  21. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    The whole thing comes to 14".
     
  22. 444

    444 Member

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    Aw, well that explains it.
    I never knew such a thing existed as an SBR/suppressor + one transfer tax. Interesting.
     
  23. Spreadfire Arms

    Spreadfire Arms Member

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    i have a factory post sample HK MP5SD2. it is on two Form 5's. one is the SMG, the other is for the suppressor. since it is a factory HK suppressor (imported) it is post-sample as well. it does unscrew from the weapon. so every factory MP5SD will be on two forms. hope this helps.
     
  24. Ukraine Train

    Ukraine Train Member

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    Is there a legal means to make your own suppressor for personal use? I bet I could make one for 10% of what they sell them for.
     
  25. 444

    444 Member

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    Sure, you can make your own.
    And you may be able to make one for 10% of what "they" charge you for one. You can buy a .22LR Suppressor from one of the top manufacturers for less than $300, so I wonder what kind of suppressor you can put together for $30 ? Yeah, I am sure you can do something that will modify the sound. But it won't work nearly as well as a good commercial can. But, there is nothing wrong with trying.
    Before you start, you need to complete a Form 1. You still have to pay the $200 tax. When you get your tax stamp back, you can go to town. The beautiful thing is that you can experiment with the innerds all you want for one low price.
     
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