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Getting past no safety

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Ragnar Danneskjold, Aug 21, 2007.

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  1. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Member

    Feb 1, 2007
    Arlington, Republic of Texas
    I'm in a conundrum. I've got about $1000 set aside to get a top of the line pistol. Currently, I don't own any guns without manual safeties. I just can't get past the emotional response that I get when a weapon can't be "turned off". I like to have to do 2 things before the weapon fires;turn the safety off, and pull the trigger. I like the idea that both have to occur, and that if only one happens by accident, the weapon won't fire. So the idea of just the trigger not being pulled as the only "safety" is disconcerting.

    I know that this limits my choice of firearms substantially. The Walther P99, all Sigs, and the HK P2K are all great weapons.

    Has anyone else had similar feelings? Should I just say "screw it" and spring for something like a Sig or P99 and just learn to like it?
  2. 2RCO

    2RCO Member

    Aug 15, 2007
    I have the same problem here I bought an S&W airweight to get a wheelgun for the nightstand it hangs out in the Gun safe and the good ole 1911 is at bedside because the grip safety and thumb safety. Plus without one in the chamber its gonna be hard for accidental discharge.
  3. The-Fly

    The-Fly Member

    Nov 1, 2005
    Northern Colorado
    talk about totally different viewpoints. My first handgun was a 357 mag, second was a glock 17, third (and ccw piece) was a glock 26. From my point of view, a handgun with a manual safety almost seems archaic.

    That said, don't hesitate to buy a no manual safety gun. As long as you follow the 4 rules, there's nothing to be concerned about.
  4. Ethereal

    Ethereal Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    Kent, Washington
    Whatever is most comfortable to you is what you should go with. Me personally I prefer a model with no external safety. As long as you're comfortable and familiar with whatever you get, the safety is honestly the least of your concerns as far as a pistol goes because you'll eventually engage and disengage the safety without even thinking about it like second habit.
  5. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

    Oct 31, 2005
    Mine goes the other way, I don't like the thought of a gun that might get turned off. I want to think that it is always ready to fire, and I want it to be always ready to fire.
  6. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

    Dec 26, 2002
    Richmond, Virginia
    "Has anyone else had similar feelings?"

    Not me, I grew up shooting DA revolvers. You learn not to touch the trigger until you're ready for the gun to fire. It's actually a good rule for all firearms.

  7. 45auto

    45auto Member

    Dec 30, 2002
    I have similiar feelings.

    Growing up with long guns, then handguns, all my firearms had manual safeties except for a couple of revolvers.

    Seems natural to have a manual safety!


    Sep 19, 2006
    Adirondacks of NYS
    I think everyone should start wtih a DA revolver--go from there!:D
  9. Picknlittle

    Picknlittle Member

    Jan 18, 2007
    Clarksville TN
    I don't have a lot of experience with varieties of handguns. I'm the one who asked the silly question about why a glock in the pocket was a bad idea. I have since gone to the glock site and found the answer.

    Now, I like the idea of a positive lock safety, but in a defensive weapon, I like not having to do anything deliberate to arm the trigger. Glock and Kel-Tec both have trigger pull safeties. Glock uses an actual finger actuated trigger safety, Kel-Tec uses a long trigger pull (as I understand it).

    Both have the advantage of using a natural shooting action to overcome the safety, but both are subject to the same failure if not holstered in a way that covers the trigger.

    I think I'd like to see the back strap grip safety and the glock styled trigger safety used together.

    Is this available anywhere?
  10. ID_shooting

    ID_shooting Member

    Feb 1, 2004
    Boise, ID
    "I think I'd like to see the back strap grip safety and the glock styled trigger safety used together.

    Is this available anywhere?"

    Springfield XD?
  11. gbelleh

    gbelleh Member

    Dec 26, 2002
    How about an HK P7? No safety switch, but a big squeezer safety. It requires 2 actions to fire. It is "off" while just sitting, "on" when firmly gripped.
  12. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

    Dec 24, 2002
    I had a P7 at one time. It was a good shooting gun but I found that I could not be fully effective with the squeeze cocker unless I shot it ALL the time. I was unwilling to give up my Colts and Smiths, so the H&K went.

    One part of this is making a safe draw. How many times have you read and heard: "Take a firing grip on the gun in the holster?" Good sense, then you just have to pull, aim and fire. But on a P7, if you take a firing grip on it in the holster, it is cocked and unlocked in the holster. Not my idea of the way to handle a 3 lb SA. Takes kind of a "plucking" motion to draw without squeezing it so hard as to cock it.

    (Yes, I know about 2 lb Glock triggers and I don't want one of those, either.)
  13. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

    Dec 24, 2002
    At this point I would like to kill a myth.... :banghead:

    All post-war S&W, Colt, Ruger, Taurus - and most if not all other double-action, hand ejector revolvers do have safeties. In addition most prewar Colt and S&W revolvers do also.

    These safeties are internal, and mechanical - not manual. They absolutely prevent a discharge unless the trigger is pulled all of the way back (in either single or double action mode) and held there while the hammer falls. Even if the hammer is cocked, and falls unintentionally (which is unlikely) the trigger will follow the hammer down, and the gun will not fire.

    But because some cannot see these safeties, as they can a maual lever or botton, they presume there isn't any safety. Ain't true. ;)
  14. TX1911fan

    TX1911fan Member

    Mar 7, 2006
    Many of the newer "no safety" guns, such as the M&P, XD and so forth have safetys, they are just not the type you are used to. The M&P uses a hinged trigger, so the trigger has to be pulled in the correct fashion to fire. The XD uses a similar concept on the trigger, plus a grip safety. I think you should get one, maybe used for a cheaper price, and put in a lot of range time so you can get comfortable that they are just as safe as any other gun.
  15. Steve C

    Steve C Member

    Jan 5, 2006
    I once had some minor trepidation regarding my Glock 19's lack of manual safety but got over it after some consideration. Over the years I've come to the decision to only carry DA or DAO handguns, without the safety on if it has one, for self defense. I want a gun that is safe insomuch that it will not likely discharge if dropped or the trigger is lightly bumped but will go off without having to do anything more than pull the trigger if needed under dire circumstances. While I love shooting my 1911's, Browning HP and Ruger Blackhawk they have been relegated to range, hunting or the nightstand.

    For self defense concealed carry the Glock 19 and a Colt Detective Special are probably the two that gets the most travel time but depending upon clothing and time of year they get replaced by a PPK/s or a Sig 220.
  16. nalioth

    nalioth Member

    Jul 9, 2007
    Houston, Texas
    Every potentially dangerous device in the world has a safety.

    It lies between ones ears.
  17. glockman19

    glockman19 Member

    Mar 16, 2007

    The best Safety is your trigger finger.
  18. Justin

    Justin Moderator Emeritus

    Dec 29, 2002
    If you prefer pistols with a manual safety, buy one with a manual safety.
  19. Elm Creek Smith

    Elm Creek Smith Member

    Aug 22, 2007

    I carried a Pistol, M1911A1, for sixteen years in the Army and a Pistol, M9, for my last four. My hand knows to look for the thumb safety when I grab a M1911A1 but never did get used to the M9 safety/hammer drop. That said, I always carry a KelTec P32 and most times carry a Kahr K9 or S&W Model 13 3-inch round butt (usually the Model 13). I don't miss the manual safeties since every shot is "double-action." Unless you're pulling the trigger, your finger shouldn't be on it.

  20. Jorg Nysgerrig

    Jorg Nysgerrig Member

    Apr 13, 2006
    taurusowner, don't take this the wrong way, but you seem overly concerned over something which most of us consider to be no big deal.

    I wouldn't consider any gun with a round in the chamber to be "turned off" regardless of the existance of a manual safety. If I want to turn off a gun, so to speak, it needs to be completely cleared.

    But, this really is a non-issue. As Justin said, there are plenty of fine guns with manual safeties that you can get.

    If you are set on getting past the issue, there really is only one way. Buy a gun that doesn't have one and see if it the feeling goes away after you're familiar with the operation. If not, sell it and try again. Sure, you'll take a bit of a hit in the wallet, but then you'll know for sure.

    I would suggest you look at the operation of the XD pistol. Between the grip safety and the trigger safety, one has to be pretty deliberate to get it to go off.
  21. motorheadjohn

    motorheadjohn Member

    Nov 6, 2006
    Tidewater, VA
    Have you rented a SiG or one of the others you mentioned? Borrow one from a friend or rent one from a range and see how you like them.

    I have several SiGs and I'm completely comfortable with them. But they are the first handgun I ever bought, learned to shoot with, etc.

    Bottom line you will be comfortable with what you train and practice. If you try shooting a friend's or rental and can't get over the idea, then stick with what you know. No shame in that. I think that line about "the man with only one gun..." applies here.
  22. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

    Sep 26, 2006
    all over Virginia
    Somebody said, "Guns are supposed to be dangerous. That's why I carry one."

    If you uncomfortable with the concept of not having to manipulate a bunch of locks, buttons, and levers before the gun becomes dangerous, there are ample specimens available on the market with whatever combination of those features suits your fancy.

    For a handgun, I really like the simple concept of: draw gun, point gun, pull trigger.

    Still, there might be some situation where a lockout "safety" mechanism would be appropriate - such as close crowd conditions where the possibility of a gun-snatch is a real matter of concern. My backup gun would still be without the features of the gun now in possession of the gun-snatcher. I wonder if you could get in trouble for shooting a guy in possession of a gun you know is disabled? That's all too much for me to think about in those sorts of situations. That's why I like the idea of "all guns are dangerous - keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot." Seems easy enough for even me to understand.
  23. Black Adder LXX

    Black Adder LXX Member

    May 2, 2007
    South Florida
    I know people who feel the same way. I do not, but respect those who do. My wife hates the thought of not having a safety. Any SD gun I have with a safety is kept loaded, safety off.
    Like soybomb, I want nothing between me and firing but the third rule: "Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target." My finger stays off the trigger until I'm ready to shoot. That's the only safety I can trust. But YMMV, if you feel better with an external safety, there's nothing wrong with that. The guns I have with a safety, I do use them as decockers...
  24. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Member

    Nov 25, 2006
    Tucson, Az most of the time
    Springfield XD carry it while runnin out here in the desert on a 500 cc 2 stroke dirt bike... all that power will eventuaally lead to rather spectacular crashes while jumping washes ar blasting down trails to suddenly stop because of a 4' wide trench created from flowing water etc...... the XD has been beat up some by the rocks sand/dirt and vegetation but it nor the Yugo AK generally folded and slung across my back both with one in the tube has ever went off nor have they ever failed to function as designed....

    Now have gotten some intresting bruises from both however ;)
  25. Mantua

    Mantua Member

    Jun 5, 2007
    Central Florida
    Try this: Unload. Try pulling the trigger on a P99, Glock, or anything that doesn't have a manual safety using your keys, a pen, loose coins or anything else that you'd find in your pockets. The way the trigger safety is designed makes it awfully difficult to pull that trigger without an actual finger on it.
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