Getting the wife shooting; our story

[Smaug]

There were some good posts above about the benefits of a .32 caliber. As a reloader, I can get the most out of them. I also like that cheap range ammo is available in 32 S&W Long. (wadcutters, even!)

What decent revolvers were made in 32 H&R and 327 Fed Mag?

I'm aware of the LCR in 327 Fed Mag. I vaguely remember they made an SP-101 in 27 H&R, but they are not to be found now and when I do find them, they're spendy. I think I'd rather have a vintage S&W for that kind of money. I'm not sure I'd want to go all the way down to 32 S&W Long, as those were replaced for lack of stopping power and that was when 38 Special took over. I'd be OK with 32 H&R & hollowpoints, if it comes to a defense gun for her.

 

[jstert]

i suggest something in 22lr to start: being easy on the senses and wallet it’s pleasant to shoot more; practice is key to confidently acquiring any skill. 22lr is how those of us of a certain age always started to learn firearms in boy scouts, ffa, 4h, school basement nra clubs, or with a grampa, dad or uncle.

if someone becomes accurate and comfortable with just a 22lr handgun, and stops there, so be it. for a normal, alert, mature, male or female, civilian suburbanite a 22lr ccw can make sense. a well-placed and confident ammo dump of successive, double-tap cci minimag hits is a far more useful way to “get off the x” than a couple of hesitant, panicky, flinched, centerfire misses. hundreds of 22lr practice rounds trumps dozens of centerfire practice rounds.

my ruger sr22 is reliable, easy, and handy enough to be a ccw with a proper covering shirt and holster.

 

[doubleh]

Patience, tone of voice, and demonstration goes a long way when teaching. Also starting with low recoil guns of which I consider the 22 rimfire the ideal starter gun, especially when it's a handgun. Also start out with close, easy to hit targets. This goes double for kids. Interest wanes quickly when you are doing something unpleasant or without getting good results.

 

[Riomouse911]

First of all, excellent work with your spouse at the range! Far too many guys go out and browbeat their female companion the first time they shoot that she never wants to go back. Baby steps, and letting her decide what she likes, is the key to sparking and holding an interest in the sport.

My spouse tolerates my never-ending and ever-expanding firearm habits, and the interest in guns and shooting Ive sparked with 2 of the 3 kids, but she has no desire to shoot any of them at all.

If she has strength issues, maybe look at one of these?

https://ruger.com/products/markIV2245Lite/models.html

They are bit pricy, but they are lightweight, easy to rack, low noise and recoil, accurate and best of all, fun.

Keep it up, she will be keeping them in the black before you know it.

Stay safe.

 

[Smaug]

Good on you for being patient. Over the years, we have tried the EZ in 9mm and the LCR. Both were solid meh guns. They were traded for a Springfield Ronin EMP that my wife loves. She took her LTC class with a Glock 19 that she recently repo'd from me when we took a defensive carbine class earlier this year. That gun is well broken in, comfortable for her to shoot, and she feels confident with it.

Why was the Glock 19 preferable to the S&W 9 mm EZ?

 

[James Fonteneaux]

Why was the Glock 19 preferable to the S&W 9 mm EZ?

It fits better, being a gen 4 it has the ability to modify the grip size. The EZ had to be sent back to the factory for a recall. I also had to adjust the sights on it as they were misaligned from the factory. It shot fine and to point of aim after adjusting the sights, and the slide is really EZ to rack. It's not a bad gun, basically we just like the G19 better.

 

[Riomouse911]

For the OP, I just remembered that Walther just introduced a .22 WMR handgun. It’s called the Walther WMP , which I believe stands for Walther Magnum Pistol… but makes me say Walther Wimp .

It looks a lot smaller than the Kel Tec .22 WMR offerings.

This may be another option for you.

Stay safe.

 

[rabid wombat]

Like all have said - good on you! After shooting for a bit, my wife chose a 686 for ‘her’ gun. After a couple of classes, she determined she did not have the weak handed finger strength to shoot it double action. She then chose a 1911…

Key points: you are doing it right, external training will allow her to ‘hear’ better (than coming from the spouse), do not expect the first pistol to be the last - it is a journey. Again congrats on getting her on the path….

 

[Smaug]

Update: We went to the range again on Saturday. She was excited to go.

This time, I brought two kinds of ammo:

• 38 Spl-level in 357 cases: 5.0 gr. Win 231 under a 105 gr. bullet
• Light 38 Spl: 4.0 gr. Win 231 under the same 105 gr. bullet

I packed three guns:

• LCR 38 - Even with the lighter loads, she doesn't like this gun
• 3" 357 SP-101 - This one, she still thinks is OK with the heavier loads
• 4" S&W 19 - This one, she initially found it a bit on the heavy side, but soon she decided she was happy to deal with that bit of extra weight in exchange for reduced recoil and the superior gunsmithed trigger.

She was OK with the full power loads, but preferred the lighter ones. She shot both SA and DA. She was still having some flinching problems, so I had her load one or two duds (fired cases) in each cylinder, so she could see when it was happening. (snap caps are inbound) By the end of the hour, her flinch was gone and she was consistently inside the 7 ring on a reduced silhouette target at 7 yards.

She has now almost totally forgotten her one range outing shooting autos, except being hit by brass as it bounced off the partitions. She commented how she likes that revolvers don't throw brass everywhere, and asked me if that is a macho thing that guys like. :-D

She also asked if we can make the S&W 19 our home defense gun, since she feels comfortable with it. I said yes, but not right away, as our lock box won't accommodate it. I'll have to buy a bigger one and maybe move the small lock box to the car for the CCW when I have to leave it behind. That is probably going to be my next purchase.

The one thing that went wrong with it was there was one failure to fire; looked like a light primer strike; probably due to the hammer spring being reduced a bit to make the trigger so nice. I'll have to look into that, as that's no good for a home defense gun. The single action on that gun feels like well under a pound where it breaks; it's such a clean break it doesn't need to be THAT light.

Gun-wise, I'm thinking of something just *slightly* smaller and lighter than the 19, as she has no use for 357. Maybe a S&W 60 Performance Center. (they have better triggers than the standard models, right?) or a Taurus 856 Executive Grade.

Here she is shooting the 19 with the heavier handloads from above. Look at her bite her lip; she does that when she's nervous.


I do like that Walther WMP idea; the barrel's long enough to get some proper energy out of 22 WMR, but I hesitate to switch her back to autos, now that she's just getting comfortable with revolvers. Maybe in time...

There is an old-fashioned gun shop about an hour's drive away with a reputation for good prices that I need to hit soon and see if they have any nice used wheelguns. My local ones don't have what I'm looking for.

 

[Tallball]

Nice job. A K-frame with 38 range ammo is pleasant to shoot for most people. Do you have a 22lr handgun? They're nice to warm up with before starting into the larger calibers.

After she gets comfortable with low-recoiling 22's and 38's, a nice steel 9mm will probably be doable.

Good job of going slow. Be sure to take her somewhere nice for lunch after you shoot with her!

 

[Smaug]

Nice job. A K-frame with 38 range ammo is pleasant to shoot for most people. Do you have a 22lr handgun? They're nice to warm up with before starting into the larger calibers.

I have a Ruger Mk. II that isn’t extracting reliably; I to figure that out. (I have a lot of good suggestions in a thread in the auto pistols forum I need to follow up on)

After she gets comfortable with low-recoiling 22's and 38's, a nice steel 9mm will probably be doable.

I have a high power that she likes shooting but she limp-wrists it causing jams and cannot rack the slide.

Good job of going slow. Be sure to take her somewhere nice for lunch after you shoot with her!

Good call!

Thanks also for all the tips via personal message and I’m glad to see in your other thread that your strong hand is getting better.

 

[murf]

extracting reliably;

suggest cleaning the extractor cutout with a "gourmet" toothpick (much stronger than regular). the carbon gets hammered into that small space and is a bear to get out.

but she limp-wrists it

maybe have her push the front sight toward the target as she is pulling the trigger. most tend to allow the gun to come back before the shot breaks to lessen the felt recoil. so, pushing the gun to the target before, during and after the shot should stop the limp wristing.

luck,

murf

p.s. i think the teacup hold is appropriate in this case because the gun is too heavy for a two hand hold.

 

[gonoles_1980]

My wife likes shooting my 44 mag, though only with the loads I make for her. Very light 44spl loads. The gun has a 7" barrel and weighs 54 oz, with those rounds it has less recoil than her 22lr Mark II.

 

[Smaug]

My wife likes shooting my 44 mag, though only with the loads I make for her. Very light 44spl loads. The gun has a 7" barrel and weighs 54 oz, with those rounds it has less recoil than her 22lr Mark II.

My wife too! (earlier post in this thread) However, she only wants to shoot one cylinder, as her arm gets sore from holding the gun up. My Redhawk with 185 gr. bullets on top of 5.5 gr. of Win 231 kicks less than any of these 357s with 38 Spl bullets.

Matter of fact, I was thinking of buying a long-barreled 357 as a range gun; maybe a 6" GP100 or 686, but I realized I could just as easily shoot the Redhawk with light loads.

 

[Speedo66]

My cousin could have been the poster boy for how not to get a wife to shoot. When he first married we went shooting upstate on a friend's property.

He had a light .300 Winchester magnum rifle I did not enjoy shooting because of the recoil. First time she's ever shot and he hands that to her. She fires it, falls backwards, and drops the rifle, where he commenced to yell at her for that. Yeah, he was an idiot. As far as I know, she never shot a gun again.

She's no longer his wife, and I'm no longer in contact with him. I don't know if that episode had anything to do with her attitude, but she's a NYC women who I once heard say she'd rather be killed than pick up a gun to defend herself. I don't know how much more anti gun you can get than that.

 

[Tallball]

Yeah, that Mark II would be sweet: no recoil, not real heavy, very accurate. Something like that is not stressful to shoot. It's almost like playing darts or something. I don't mean that in an unsafe way, just that it's a fun, relaxing, no-stress thing.

My daughter focused on revolvers and 22/32 automatics until she got bigger and stronger. If she had stayed smaller, she would have never shot a 9mm, and that's fine. A 38 special is plenty good for a house gun, IMHO.

Thank you for the kind wishes. My hand continues to improve. It's pretty much fine as long as I don't need to punch anyone or shoot a 44 magnum.

Ruger Mark II 22lr

• Tallball
• Jul 25, 2020

 

[gonoles_1980]

Yeah, that Mark II would be sweet: no recoil, not real heavy, very accurate. Something like that is not stressful to shoot. It's almost like playing darts or something. I don't mean that in an unsafe way, just that it's a fun, relaxing, no-stress thing.

That was my wife's first gun, the Mark II is easy, fun and accurate.

 

[tinhorn]

It's great that your wife wants to go shooting with you! Thumbs up on the ladies' gun course. My missus and I took a couple's course, taught by a married couple.

After she held a 5.5" Single Six at a gun store, she thought she liked it. When we got home, she thought the barrel was too heavy. I happened across a Wrangler which she liked better. (Lighter maybe?) But when I brought home a Bearcat she became an enthusiast. Lighter than the SS and a smaller grip which fits her hands better. Wider hammer makes it easy to cock. Single action so the trigger is ALWAYS light. .22 LR means more practice for the buck, and if need be, I have a few boxes of Stingers. (Plus that "heavy" Single Six with a magnum cylinder.)

No semiautos here. I don't want to have to use two hands to cock a gun.

 

[Smaug]

Yesterday, I checked out another “local” gun shop. (an hours’ drive)

I got to handle a few guns that I have not seen in the steel before:

• Taurus 856: I’d handled one of these before, but this one had a much nicer trigger. That seems to support what I have read elsewhere here; that quality control at Taurus is such that you should buy one that you’ve actually handled. This gun shop is one that has all the guns out on display, you don’t need to have a case unlocked to check one out, so the trigger mechanism may have been polished by lots of dry firing from lots of different customers.
• Colt King Cobra, 3”: this is a very nice gun all around. Their reputation is deserved. The trigger pull is smooth and does not stack, but it was a little bit heavier than I was expecting. Fit and finish were flawless. Notably better than a standard new Smith & Wesson. (not sure about Performance Center, which are more comparable, price-wise.)
• Kel-Tech 22 WMR pistol, forgot the Model No. this one was surprising: very light and crisp trigger pull and very good sights. If only it weren’t so ugly. The grip ergonomics were also not that great. It was also on the expensive side for a 80% plastic Kel-Tech; at well over $400.

I looked at some recent Charter Arms guns online; they don’t seem to make anything suitable: they’re either too big a caliber or too light. Almost all snubbies, too. Their models marketed towards women are very light; 12 ounces, which is an ounce and a half less than my Ruger LCR which she already feels is too light. (recoil)

I’m leaning now towards a Taurus 856 Executive or an old pencil-barreled Smith. (which would keep the weight down, while retaining the longer site radius)

 

[gonoles_1980]

I looked at some recent Charter Arms guns online; they don’t seem to make anything suitable: they’re either too big a caliber or too light. Almost all snubbies, too. Their models marketed towards women are very light; 12 ounces, which is an ounce and a half less than my Ruger LCR which she already feels is too light. (recoil)

I own the Charter Arms Undercover 38spl, I like the gun, I'm pretty accurate with it, but the cylinder latch release screw continues to come loose, I can add loctite and it works for a couple of range sessions, then it comes loose and the cylinder gets jammed and I have to take the gun apart to fix it. If it wasn't for that I'd really like the gun, but it makes it unreliable to use.

 

[WYO]

I occasionally have the opportunity to assist new or occasional female shooters in learning to shoot or improving their shooting, and in selecting firearms for self-defense. I don’t follow a set routine other than basic safety rules. The goal is to proceed from their knowledge and comprehension bases and to get them to where they could get confident and proficient enough to defend themselves in a relatively short period of time. This usually involves adding a little stress by using an electric target return to get the target to “charge” them from 21 feet. If I can draw any generalizations from my experiences, they are:
(1) Forget revolvers unless the shooter absolutely cannot be trained to use a semi-auto;
(2) Forget common duty calibers (9mm, 40 S&W, .45 ACP) unless they are proficient under stress with them; and
(3) Try to discourage someone from acquiring a firearm merely because “it feels good” in the hand without actually shooting it.

The S&W Shield EZ in .380 is a solid choice. If the shooter wants something more concealable, the new Sig P365 .380 is a solid choice. The Glock 42 is OK with more limited capacity, and it needs some break-in before trusting it for carry. Stay with locked breech firearms rather than blowbacks if you go .380, because blowbacks recoil as bad as larger caliber firearms. I believe that it is better to have a smaller caliber firearm that one can handle and shoot well than to have a more powerful firearm that is intimidating to the shooter and slower to fire follow-up shots. This is especially critical for occasional shooters who do not maintain proficiency on a frequent basis.

This is an example of why I do not like revolvers or cartridges the shooter cannot handle. They are too slow in operation in a rapidly evolving emergency situation.

Here's some footage of Cari shooting the SP-101 with 38 +P loaded on the mild side: (105 gr. bullet, 5.3 gr. of Win 231) I could load this quite a bit lighter for her; down to 3.4 gr. or so of Win 231. You can see some flinch, but I've seen worse.

​

...and here she is shooting the LCR. She's clearly shaken by this; doesn't like it at all. Look at the big flinch before the second shot. This is with factory 38 Spl and 158 LRN. Maybe we will try this again with lighter reloads. 105-125 gr. bullets and a lighter powder load. Lots of that powder (even in 38 Spl) is burning outside the barrel, so it isn't helping velocity anyway.

​

I had one friend who already had a CCW permit and had two revolvers. She did OK with a S&W Model 19 and much worse with a J frame against a stationary target at 7 yards. When I got the target to charge her, she only got off 2 shots with the Model 19 with one peripheral hit and one miss. (She also had to be coached to not be afraid to take a contact shot.) She didn’t even want to try it with the J frame. She shot my 9mm Glock 43 better at the stationary target without ever having fired it before. She also got multiple solid hits on the moving target with no misses. This raised her confidence level and enhanced her survivability. She wanted to go out and buy a Glock 43.

Another shooter who had never shot before really enjoyed the .380 EZ, although she was proficient with a wide variety of .380 and 9mm firearms. My wife shoots anything well, but slow, and she liked the EZ and has a better rate of fire. That is what she uses now.

These are just my opinions based on my personal experience. I'm no expert. Use them or disregard them as you see fit. Best of luck in your journeys!

P.S. The cup and saucer hold is not a very solid hold. Also, in the S&W 19 video the support arm is really not providing support. You may want to look into a 2-hand isosceles hold. Finally, I cannot tell if she is left eye dominant or not. Is she right eye dominant or is she left eye dominant and looking over the right arm to sight with her left eye?

 

[Smaug]

I own the Charter Arms Undercover 38spl, I like the gun, I'm pretty accurate with it, but the cylinder latch release screw continues to come loose, I can add loctite and it works for a couple of range sessions, then it comes loose and the cylinder gets jammed and I have to take the gun apart to fix it. If it wasn't for that I'd really like the gun, but it makes it unreliable to use.

Hmm. You might try going to a different grade of Loctite. Most common is blue, which holds but not too tightly and doesn't need heat to get loose. Next is red I think, which holds tighter and needs heat to get loose. They also have several that are considered permanent. (though that's hard to imagine)

 

[Smaug]

I occasionally have the opportunity to assist new or occasional female shooters in learning to shoot or improving their shooting, and in selecting firearms for self-defense. I don’t follow a set routine other than basic safety rules. The goal is to proceed from their knowledge and comprehension bases and to get them to where they could get confident and proficient enough to defend themselves in a relatively short period of time. This usually involves adding a little stress by using an electric target return to get the target to “charge” them from 21 feet. If I can draw any generalizations from my experiences, they are:
(1) Forget revolvers unless the shooter absolutely cannot be trained to use a semi-auto;

That's where we are right now. She got scared off of autos because she couldn't rack my Hi-Power or Sig P365. I haven't ruled out a S&W 9 EZ for the long run, but we're sticking with revolvers for now. (she has limp wrist and elbow issues and the resulting jams just completely drain her confidence)

(2) Forget common duty calibers (9mm, 40 S&W, .45 ACP) unless they are proficient under stress with them; and
(3) Try to discourage someone from acquiring a firearm merely because “it feels good” in the hand without actually shooting it.

Good advice. We're trying 38 Spl. She feels OK with that and is able to beat the flinch. +P is pushing it.

[...]I believe that it is better to have a smaller caliber firearm that one can handle and shoot well than to have a more powerful firearm that is intimidating to the shooter and slower to fire follow-up shots. This is especially critical for occasional shooters who do not maintain proficiency on a frequent basis.

Agreed. I started her with 22LR in my big Ruger Mk. II Target. After she said she didn't like 22LR ("feels like a pop gun") I had her try the Hi-Power in 9 mm, which she liked shooting and shot well, but couldn't always get the slide all the way back, even with technique coaching. She just doesn't have the grip strength or upper body strength. She's a girly-girl. It's sometimes hard for me to fathom how weak she is. (all the more reason to be able to shoot; it's a great equalizer!)

This is an example of why I do not like revolvers or cartridges the shooter cannot handle. They are too slow in operation in a rapidly evolving emergency situation.

Well, we'll have to move slowly here. I figure a revolver she feels comfortable with is still better than an auto that she needs me to rack and that will stovepipe jam on her. She can load, unload and shoot them without any jams.

I had one friend who already had a CCW permit and had two revolvers. She did OK with a S&W Model 19 and much worse with a J frame against a stationary target at 7 yards.

Right now, she doesn't want to carry; just have it available at home, so there's not much point in going compact. Like this friend of yours, my wife can shoot the 19 pretty well and the SP-101 a bit less well.

When I got the target to charge her, she only got off 2 shots with the Model 19 with one peripheral hit and one miss. (She also had to be coached to not be afraid to take a contact shot.)

I'll have to try this charging drill and contact shot training next time we go.

She didn’t even want to try it with the J frame. She shot my 9mm Glock 43 better at the stationary target without ever having fired it before. She also got multiple solid hits on the moving target with no misses. This raised her confidence level and enhanced her survivability. She wanted to go out and buy a Glock 43.

I wonder if my wife could get a better grip on a Glock slide than a P365 slide...

Another shooter who had never shot before really enjoyed the .380 EZ, although she was proficient with a wide variety of .380 and 9mm firearms. My wife shoots anything well, but slow, and she liked the EZ and has a better rate of fire. That is what she uses now.

My wife has kind of a loose grip; how far in does the grip safety on the EZ need to be pressed? I would go down toe 380 if I had to, but if she can handle 9 mm; that's preferable for a few reasons.

P.S. The cup and saucer hold is not a very solid hold.

She can't seem to get the hand overlap thing. She keeps trying to move the support hand up the gun to where I'm worried she'll get flame-cut. I tell her, but she goes right back to it. I don't want her to get hurt, so I'm letting the teacup hold go for now. I figure it's better than nothing and better than getting hurt by the gun.

Finally, I cannot tell if she is left eye dominant or not. Is she right eye dominant or is she left eye dominant and looking over the right arm to sight with her left eye?

Yeah, she's left eye dominant. She shoots rifles lefty.

 

[WYO]

Hi Smaug,

I have a few general comments and some specific comments about your last post. I empathize with your situation, especially because my wife is left eye dominant and right-handed. Based on your replies, I would highly recommend professional training for your wife before going further. I am talking about someone of the type who trains brand new police recruits, preferably having some revolver experience. People with little prior experience, and especially women, don’t have bad habits to unlearn. It is a lot harder to train someone that already has developed sub-optimal habits because they first have to be unlearned. That funky stance to make cross-dominant shots can really be a hindrance to learning and could be especially problematic under life-threatening stress where the body's fight or flight reaction kicks in and precise technique goes down the drain. Sure, some people did the crossover stuff back in the day before the isosceles stance, but that takes a lot of adaptation. Your wife may be a future expert on a new technique, but it would take a long time to get that down, time that she may not dedicate to getting it exactly right every time.

The isosceles is perfect for the cross-dominant shooter because the gun is aligned with the center of the head, and it works with using either eye.

Well, we'll have to move slowly here. I figure a revolver she feels comfortable with is still better than an auto that she needs me to rack and that will stovepipe jam on her. She can load, unload and shoot them without any jams.

An instructor can teach a number of techniques. Even a table top technique if she doesn't have the strength with her body. The best solution is to find the right gun. In a worst case scenario, just leave the gun loaded. But, the gun has to be vetted to be sure it can be fired with even a weak, support-hand grip. I will usually loosen up a gun with a bunch of ammo and do limp-wrist tests with my support hand before allowing an occasional shooter to test it out for real.

I'll have to try this charging drill and contact shot training next time we go.

I wouldn't do the charging thing until she can accurately fire the gun with decent hits at a stationary target with decent speed. Doing that is rather deflating to many, so the temperament of the individual is important. You don't want to scare them, you just want them to understand that things happen fast. Contact shots are fun, because they can see what the blast does.

I wonder if my wife could get a better grip on a Glock slide than a P365 slide...

You have both, so try it. The .380 version is slightly easier to rack than the standard P365, but not much. It may be enough.

My wife has kind of a loose grip; how far in does the grip safety on the EZ need to be pressed? I would go down toe 380 if I had to, but if she can handle 9 mm; that's preferable for a few reasons.

That could be a problem. I would rule out the EZ for now on that basis alone. It is not difficult, but you have to hit it right. Also, if you hit the grip safety wrong and pull the trigger, tightening the grip safety with the trigger pulled will not fire the gun. You have to reset the trigger and then pull it again. (This is different than a 1911.)

As far as going down in caliber, you get faster follow-up shots. I clobbered my standard 9mm P365 (with a Holosun 407K X2) with the .380 version (open sights) when doing a Dicken drill. (40 yards, 10 shots, 12 seconds, USPSA target) The recoil difference impacted accuracy and speed.

She can't seem to get the hand overlap thing. She keeps trying to move the support hand up the gun to where I'm worried she'll get flame-cut. I tell her, but she goes right back to it. I don't want her to get hurt, so I'm letting the teacup hold go for now. I figure it's better than nothing and better than getting hurt by the gun.

A good instructor can teach the correct grip. When you say hand overlap, I cannot tell if you are referring to a thumbs forward grip or whether you are talking about putting the support hand thumb over the firing hand grip. That is a no-no for semi-autos and a recipe for slicing a thumb and/or retarding the slide during cycling. The thumbs forward grip can be an issue if it puts the support thumb near the cylinder gap on a revolver, but I haven't had any trouble using it with a revolver except with the tiny NAA guns. It's a matter of looking at it with an empty gun to see if it is an issue.

BTW, it sounds like the only issue with the Glock 19 is racking the action. Maybe some light-for-caliber ammo (90 grain) and a recoil spring change could fix that (after proper vetting, of course). I think that Hornady makes a Critical Defense light round.

I hope that you get it figured out. (I will be without Internet for a few days if you write again.)

 

[tinhorn]

I figure a revolver she feels comfortable with is still better than an auto that she needs me to rack and that will stovepipe jam on her. She can load, unload and shoot them without any jams.

Bingo. Life is easier when you just plow around the stump.