Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Stevenvalleyky, Feb 9, 2017.
80% receivers aren't legally guns. They can be used as materials to manufacture guns, which may or may not require registration depending on location and exact configuration.
The reality is that guns are simple machines that can be built by anyone with access to some tools and patience, in hours not months. There are usable guns that were built with hand files and hack saws. An 80% receiver has had 80% of that work done already but it is still not a receiver until some significant work is done.
First I've heard of that.
if you page through that, you'll see everything from homemade 1911s to duct taped shotguns.
For a gun good enough for a mugging or terror attack, you don't need rifling or durability or much in the way of accuracy.
Not everyone has the skills needed, but it's not rocket science. I don't know enough chemistry to make meth, but I'm not under any illusions that outlawing amateur meth making will dry up the supply
Moreover, with modern CNC machining, an unscrupulous shop owner who is behind on his lease payments can go in on a Sunday with the programs on a thumb drive, make a few guns, deliver them to a seller that night, and the only evidence Monday is a pile of chips. Outlawing hobby building only affects the law abiding.
(I've made a 1911 frame starting from a rectangular chunk of metal, and an AR upper and lower from raw forgings. And if you want me to make the forgings by melting down old water pump housings or whatever, no problem )
CA coined the terms a few years ago for the 80% builds and plastic Defense Distributed diy.
For some sad comedy a longer version of the same comedy
CA went on to great a law saying everything has to have a serial number. Even antiques that never had serial numbers from my understanding.
Don't worry though, the crazy never leaves CA and goes national. Never has never will.
Oh wait... never mind that last statement.
ETA Mods, I hope I didn't violate any terms with that 1st vid.
More people were murdered wih a hammer last year than by all semi-auto rifles.
I'm interested in replies.
IMO it's not bogus persay, it's overly alarmist.
Lower receiver is shipped legally roughly 80% finished with out serial numbers.
The buyer finishes it at home. All legel per fed laws.
The alarmist part is that they haven't been used in any note worthy crimes.
ETA for 2015
All rifles = 252
Shotguns = 269
(clubs, hammers, etc.) = 437
(hands,fists, feet, etc.) = 632
For $150ish you can buy a kit that includes a set of jigs, drill bits, and a part that outwardly looks like the frame of a Glock-like pistol. Polymer frame, metal insert. The frame needs holes drilled and sections milled out before you can install all the parts needed to make it work. With the jig and some power tools you can finish it in several hours.
Then add another $85 or so for the parts to finish the frame. That means a trigger, mag release, etc..
For another $450-1300 (depending on how fancy you want to be) or so you can then buy a slide, barrel, sights, and all the other parts needed to finish it into a nearly complete firearm.
Then, for $15 you can add a magazine....
Meaning that for maybe $700 (or a lot more if you want to be fancy) and several hours, assuming you don't mess up, you can build the equivalent of a 3rd generation glock 17, with no warranties, short a mag or two, case, and similar...
A used gen3 Glock would run, what, $400-450?
Crimes being done by thugs!!! how is that possible?
So when the cartels send over the drugs, minors for prostitution or illegal labor, firearms and whatever else from who knows where how do we tackle that?
How is the war on drugs and cartels going?
Everyone conveniently avoids talking about any of that!
Yet there is a documented Mass Shooting in CA where the perp used a 80% lower.. (John Zawahri, Santa Monica, CA - 2013)
Hence the uproar in CA.
A person who sees mugging as a way to pay for a new pair of sneakers is going to behave differently than the person who is acting out long term plans based on ideology or insanity.
Unfortunately that creates an opportunity to mislead. The peak severity of ideology/insanity driven crime is generally higher. There aren't many cases where 10+ people are shot by someone trying to rob a single c-store. However, the total harm is much lower because the big ideological/insanity driven incidents are extremely rare. Someone who wishes to manipulate results can conflate the two to lead people to incorrect conclusions. They will talk about how an ideology/insanity crime was committed with a homemade gun, and then talk about how many people are killed in robberies/drug crimes, implying that the homemade guns are used across both groups.
The reality is that most people choose the easiest path to accomplish their goals. If your goal involves having a gun, the easiest path is buying from a gun store. If you can't do that, straw purchase, borrowing, buying used, or stealing (depending on circumstances). If you can't do those, building from kits and parts. On and on until they are sitting in the dark with a hand file and a block of steel making a pistol frame. If people want it badly enough they will figure out a way no matter what barrier you put up...and if one person figures out a way, they can make money helping others so it tends to spread quickly.
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