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Girl shoots Father..this is something to really look at

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by camonympho, Aug 1, 2007.

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  1. camonympho

    camonympho Member

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    I ran across an article from pa that upsets me on so many levels. From the neighbor who knew something wasn't right to the mom not doing more to help her daughter. Pa. girl, 13, charged with shooting father to death with shotgun

    By RAMESH SANTANAM,
    AP
    Posted: 2007-07-30 20:56:49
    BUENA VISTA, Pa. (AP) - A 13-year-old girl used a shotgun to fatally shoot her father in the head early Monday in a home overrun with animals and filth, police said.

    The girl told investigators she used a 12-gauge shotgun to shoot 34-year-old Matthew Booth in the face while he was in bed, according to a police affidavit.

    A police complaint did not identify a motive in the killing, but her mother, Michelle Fazek, who was separated from Booth, said she had complained several times to county child welfare officials that her daughter and her brother, 14, were living in squalor and that her daughter had been abused.

    "I just want to see her," Fazek said. "She must be so scared."

    Messages left for Allegheny County's Office of Children, Youth and Families were not immediately returned.

    The Associated Press does not identify victims of possible sexual abuse.

    The girl appeared in municipal court late Monday wearing a maroon county jail uniform, her hands and ankles cuffed, where she was charged as an adult with criminal homicide and ordered held without bail.

    The house in Elizabeth Township, about 20 miles southeast of Pittsburgh was in deplorable condition, police said.

    "They had a number of animals, dogs, cats and rabbits. They hadn't cleaned up after them," said James Morton, assistant superintendent of Allegheny County Police. The two-story frame house had dirty, peeling white siding, and a downstairs window was boarded up.

    Matthew Booth's neighbor Suzanne Gruber told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that the girl had told her she had killed her father because she "just couldn't take it any more." Gruber said the girl also told her she had been abused.

    In an interview with KDKA-TV, Gruber said the girl said "she messed up the house to make it look like somebody had broken in and she ended up shooting him in the face."

    Gloria Brown, who lives two houses down from the Booth house, said the family moved in last year. She said she offered to let the girl, who seemed shy, stay at her home.

    "I just know something wasn't right at the house," Brown said. She said she last saw the girl Sunday making a sandwich for her father at a birthday celebration at the Brown house.

    "I was totally shocked when it happened," Brown said.


    Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
     
  2. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    that article disturbed me too

    They should investigate a lot more before charging the little girl.
    God only knows what she had to put up with before finally defending herself.
    I wish I could afford a good lawyer for her.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2007
  3. alligator94

    alligator94 Member

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    Not saying that the guy didn't deserve it, but no one knows for sure if he did either. This is kind of suspicious as well "she messed up the house to make it look like somebody had broken in and she ended up shooting him in the face." Everyone should wait until the facts are known before leaping to judgement on this one way or the other.
     
  4. fletcher

    fletcher Member

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    I've pretty much got the same sentiments as alligator94 about this for now.
     
  5. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    somethings not right



    If you care about your kids you provide a clean safe environment, not "squalor"
     
  6. Bezoar

    Bezoar member

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    thing is these days, living in a 4 star hotel with a plugged up kitchen sink can be considered living in "squalor". Although not everything will be known or understood about this situation at all.
     
  7. lee n. field

    lee n. field Member

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    Interesting that the kids weren't with the mother. It's almost a given these days that Mom gets custody.
     
  8. Dark_Harvest

    Dark_Harvest Member

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    everything you need to know about the slant taken in this article can be summed up in the byline:

    By RAMESH SANTANAM,
    AP
     
  9. The Deer Hunter

    The Deer Hunter Member

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    Its not right that minors can be charged as an adult but cannot defend themselves...

    But I wonder why she did it.

    Dark harvest, this doesn't seem like the place for you.
     
  10. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Barring some form of insanity, when a female child of that age kills her own parent, the parent had it coming in spades.
     
  11. igpoobah

    igpoobah Member

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    Heard that.
     
  12. 2TransAms

    2TransAms Member

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    Cosmoline,you're probably right but I'll reserve judgment until more facts come to light. But to blow away your dad..one of you has to be really messed up.

    Deer Hunter,I think DarkHarvest's comment was referring to the Associated Press. I'm sure they just spit out the first sensational bit of info that they got,and they will worry about the facts later.
     
  13. budney

    budney member

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    +1 Alligator--the story could well be very different than it sounds.

    +1 Cosmoline--If the "abuse" is real, and the girl isn't a sociopath, I'll bet a new Bowie knife that the abuse was sexual, and horrific.

    Um, Dark Harvest, I'll assume that "AP" is the part that tells us everything we need to know?

    --Len.
     
  14. Cannonball888

    Cannonball888 Member

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    To be self-defense there has to be imminent danger, otherwise it is viewed as pre-meditated murder by the judicial system. But by being a minor and probably having suffered abuse I doubt she will be found guilty.
     
  15. Kentak

    Kentak Member

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    Jumping to conclusions. Something done all to easily here.

    Of course she is going to be charged. It wasn't an evident self-defense situation. Evidence will be gathered, witnesses to the family situation will be interviewed, psych exams will be done, etc., etc. Then there will be a trial and a verdict.

    That's how the truth is determined and justice done. If anyone knows a better way, raise your hand. But, judging from a few paragraphs in a news account isn't one of them.

    K
     
  16. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    There is more to be discovered here, but it wouldn't surprise me if it ends up being a "Bad things happen to bad people" type of scenario.

    What is sad is the fact that this girl is going to be seriously messed up for the rest of her life. To kill a parent in this way is going to leave permanent scars, no matter what led up to it.
     
  17. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Actually, this is due process. She admitted, supposedly, to committing the homicide. As she was not defending herself against immediate attack to justify taking another life (versus simply walking away as the guy was asleep when she shot him), she has been arrested. It will now be up to investigators and grand jury to determine if this was a justified homicide or not and if they think so, then up to a court. Charges potentially will be dropped, but in the mean time, they have simply done what is proper for the process.

    Even if they had not arrested her, she would be in protective custody after the homicide until things have been worked out.

    If the reports are accurate, she was already permanently scarred.
     
  18. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    This kid was messed up enough (not exactly a professional psychiatric diagnosis, but...) by what had already happened to her in life to take a shotgun and blow her father away while he lay in bed.

    Whatever chance she had of sorting herself out in this lifetime is pretty much toast at this point. I feel sorry for the girl, she basically took the leap out of the frying pan and into the fire out of levels of desperation I personally cannot fathom.

    It's most likely true that the father had SOMETHING coming to him, but that 'something' should have been delivered by 'the system' and not by the girl herself. By making herself judge, jury and executioner, this girl has inflicted a level of damage to her own psyche that is devastating and probably permanent. At this point it matters little what 'the system' does to her. What she does to herself from this point on will tell the tale.

    Often enough, cases like this produce a life that is a train wreck of self-destructive behavior that culminates in suicide. I hope she can escape that self-inflicted destruction, but the odds are not in her favor.

    lpl/nc (married to a former juvie jailer, heard lots of war stories)
     
  19. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    I hold child abusers in the same regard I hold murderers and rapists.
     
  20. Dravur

    Dravur Member

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    hmmmmm

    I am of two minds over this. I need more facts. Was this the work of a twisted young girl who wanted to pull a Menendez on her dad or was she abused and took it out the only way she knew how.

    I want to know more.
     
  21. pcosmar

    pcosmar member

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    This story may be related.
    Many years ago in Missouri (1978?),a young man shot and killed his father.
    The boy was 16 and was going to be charged as an adult. The prosecutor wanted the max sentence.
    When it was reported in the news, folks came forward with information about the abuse. The boy had tried to get help and had spoken to school counselors and others. No one was able to "do anything".
    This kid had thought the constant abuse was normal till he got into High School and found that being bull whipped was not "normal". The whole family had been terrorized for years.
    He prearranged it with a younger brother, to keep the rest of the family outside, and shot his father 6 times in the face. He had his fathers gun.
    The stories came out in court, different things from many people. Folks knew but couldn't "do anything"
    I had known this young man, and had given him rides home. He worked at a restaurant with my girl friend. Nice kid, Quiet and polite.
    The Judge,after listening to the crowd that came forward, banged the gavel and called it Justifiable Homicide. He said that the kid had done the community a service.
    The family moved out of state.
    This is a decision that could be made more often.
     
  22. ldyates

    ldyates Member

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    Straight out of (pick your CSI) TV show. Kids have seen enough of this garbage on TV to know that criminals mess up the crime scene.

    Truly tragic. I hope this was "justified" in the eyes of the law for her sake.
     
  23. doubleg

    doubleg Member

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    Thats across the river from me... :uhoh:
     
  24. rantingredneck

    rantingredneck Member

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    Tragic that these stories end this way. Tragic when the end with the child dying from abuse/neglect too. It is in the courts' hands now.

    I've worked in mental health (adult and child) for the last 13 years or so here in NC. In doing that I've seen a lot of home situations that have given me pause. As a mental health professional I have a statutory obligation to report anything that may indicate abuse/neglect. I have reported those situations in the past. I've also testified in court in proceedings where a child was being removed from the home. In that particular case it wasn't animal waste strewn about the house. It was human waste.

    In my several experiences with protective services (adult and child) I have come to several conclusions.

    Something serious must happen before action will be taken to remove a child regardless of what the home environment is like. The situation I referenced above continued for three years after my initial report, and two years after my involvement with the family had ended, until I was called to testify in the custody proceedings. The prompt for the hearing was the near death of one of the children in the home from prescription medication that was not hers.

    The system exists as it does to keep families together when possible. I personally believe that it should be difficult to separate children from their parents. This prevents some children from being raised by "the system", and it makes unwarranted removal more difficult.

    Like any other profession those working in the various agencies charged with child protection have varying levels of commitment. Some are in it because they believe in what they are doing. Some are just there because it's a paycheck. I don't say this to knock the individuals working in those agencies because I couldn't personally work for an agency charged with that task. I could not stand to see the things that those individuals see every day.

    That all being said, if you are ever in a situation where you feel it necessary to report abuse or neglect, be prepared to report it in writing and to be persistent. Report it in writing copied to several different people at the appropriate agency. It's more difficult to ignore a written report (who knows how many copies exist?) than it is to pretend a phone call never happened.
     
  25. ziadel

    ziadel Member

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    How in the heck can they prosecute a 13 year old as an adult!? She is....13... I find this trend alone quite disturbing.
     
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