Girlfriend's roommate attempts to grab gun off my belt without asking!

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grizz

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Dec 25, 2005
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Eagle River, AK
Situation: I received a frantic call from my girlfriend, late at night, explaining that she got home from the store to find the front door to her house wide open. I happened to be 5 minutes away, so I told her I would stop by. Since I was so close, we decided not to call the police until I inspected the house.

I got there, chambered a round, put my XD-40 on my belt holster and walked around the house looking into windows. Everything seemed OK. I then approached the front door and called inside, "Anyone in here!" There wasn't any response and it was windy as heck outside, so I figured that the door probably had a bad lock and was blown open. I cleared the house with pistol drawn, room by room. No bad guys.

10 minutes later, her liberal-as-**** roommate shows up and sees the pistol on my hip. She, without asking and without warning, grabs the gun and tries to remove it from my holster!

I blocked her attempt, and I shouted something like, "HEY, STOP. YOU CAN'T DO THAT! THIS GUN IS LOADED!" I was astounded! It just completely blew me away that she would have the audacity do that!

After I yelled at her, she responded with "You know guns in homes kill more people in accidents than they do intruders in self defense!"

At this point I was VERY fumed. I replied with, "Look, your stupidity could have easily killed ME. It's mindless idiots like you that cause gun accidents. My pistol is loaded. You don't know the first thing about guns; you grabbed my pistol without permission in an extremely unsafe fashion and could have seriously hurt me, or killed me. I came over here because Amanda said your front door was open when she got home and I wanted to make sure everything was OK".

She went on a rant about how "guns kill innocent people" and I felt my blood pressure skyrocket. I couldn't stand to hear any more B.S. and I didn't see the point in arguing with someone so mind-numbingly stupid, so I left.

Why are some people so ignorant!?! :cuss: :fire: :banghead:

-Grizz
 
Retention training.
House clearing training.

Both would likely be of value. There are few things I would like less to do than clear an unknown building. The roommate was wrong for what she did, no doubt, but....If she had been asleep in her bed room, and had you stalk inside with a drawn weapon, seen your outline enter her room, then would she have been justified in shooting you until you ceased to be a threat? Yes, she would. Did you know where she was? Did you know for certain if she had a gun? Would you be prepared to return fire to save your life? I know I would not want that to happen. Not to you, her, or me.

If you felt a drawn handgun and house clearing was necessary, calling for back-up would have been the right route. Back-up as in the police.
 
Just, Damn!

I mean, but . . . er, what . . . ?

:what:

She tried to grab the pistol so that . . . she could . . . do WHAT??

What the heck was she gonna do?? Use it like an index finger and shake it in your face while scolding you?

Throw it in the trash??

Toss it outside??

Keep it away from you so you wouldn't hurt someone?

Ahhhhhhhhh! Arrrrrgghhh! :banghead:

My sweet singing Jeebus! I feel my IQ slipping just trying to imagine what she was thinking.

Thanks EVER so much.
 
Time for a re-evaulation of the situation? Telling the roommate anything is pointless, she ALREADY HAS HER MIND MADE UP. I would have tried to restrain myself from laughing, but would have, called her hand,"where is that printed at???-show me", then Then remind her you were just securing YOUR girlfriends half of the house as requested. Then tell your girlfriend to "get her honey- she was mean to me":neener:
 
Find a new roomie

Your GF needs to find a new roomie and you should have whalloped her into next week. What she did is called assault and can be punished pretty severely. When someone makes a grab for a weapon, they are usually not wanting to discuss the flavor of the tea and crumpetts.
 
Apparantly he succeeded in weapons retention. You do have to admit though that for most people such a situation isn't something you plan for or expect (having someone you know try to grab your sidearm from you). Maybe it should be.
 
She got off easy. I was always taught to hit anyone who tried a stunt like that just as hard as I possible could. :fire:
 
XavierBreath:

I fully agree that tactically, my response probably wasn't perfect, but IMO it wasn't really that unsafe either. I did know 100% for sure that the roommate wasn't in the house. Her car was gone, and Amanda (my girlfriend) knew that she had gone out that evening. Also, the house is 1 level and only ~700 sq ft, so my shouts at the door would have been heard throughout the whole house. I looked through every window before entering the house and could see that there weren't any people sleeping in beds. I really only cleared the place room by room to put my girlfriend's mind at ease.

Also, the wind was gusting at about 60 mph, and after looking inside through all the windows I felt pretty sure that summoning the police would have been a waste of their time, and that the door simply had blown open.

Your reply was much appreciated though, thanks.

Oh, and I probably should have described this in greater detail, but I actually did succeed in retaining control of the firearm without it being unholstered. She grabbed the handle and started lifting it out of the holster, with her finger going towards the trigger, but I immediately blocked her attempt by placing my left hand on the rear of the pistol and pushing it downward back into the holster, and at the same time grabbed her arm with my right hand and raised it upward away from my hip. I then stepped back and shouted at her.
 
Apparantly he succeeded in weapons retention.
If she got her hand on the gun as he states, I disagree. Weapon retention is maintaining control of the gun, not just keeping it in the holster.

Then remind her you were just securing YOUR girlfriends half of the house as requested.
I'm not certain how you secure half a house.

you should have whalloped her into next week.
I was always taught to hit anyone who tried a stunt like that just as hard as I possible could.
As wrong as she was, I don't think coming into her home armed and assaulting her for her ignorance would have had a positive legal outcome.

Your reply was much appreciated though, thanks.
Thanks Grizz. Just consider implications of being wrong in your assumptions. This is serious stuff.
 
Forgive me for being blunt.

Your defensive firearm is for defense, not clearing someone else's house. You should have had her call the cops anyhow and wait for them, and then gone over there and waited outside with her and held her hand.

Your willingness to play cop may have got you in trouble had there been an interloper in there and the worst had happened.

I realize that you felt good about the fact that your girlfriend demonstrated such trust in you, but you still should have had her call the cops and stayed in the hand-holding role.

Most unwise.

Flame away....
 
Clearing houses is best left to the police - you guys should've called. If you find one guy the partner cracks your skull and now they have your gun.

I got there, chambered a round, put my XD-40 on my belt holster

Still trying to figure this one out - you carry a gun but not on you and without a round in the chamber?

The gun in the roomate's teeth would've been nice, but again if you called the police the whole situation is avoided, and we always avoid "situations", right?
 
I don't know what the legal implications are. I can only imagine seeing: a. The outcome of a firearm 'accident' as she grabbed and set off the firearm likely injuring you as it would probably be pointed in your direction as her finger made contact with the trigger pulling it away from you and towards her by the handle. B. You using force to stop her if she was more determined resulting in some sort of assault or battery charge.

How does someone retain a firearm legaly if some happy go lucky decides to just grab and take it with no obvious malicious intent. Especialy if said individual is a man or is stronger and more determined to save you from the gun, or check out the neat shiny thing!

Normaly you stand in such a way as to limit access to the part of the body with your gun, much like you see police officers doing. A hand on the top of the weapon or in the general area prepared to counter such an attempt is also common. Yet there is still that unforseen event, especialy in regards to people you have your guard down around as you don't expect sucha thing to be done by them.

Most physical retention I have anticpated involved hostile individuals that violent retention was an anticipated response involving physicly injuring or deflecting the hand with force. Knives, especialy curved or slashing types advertised for such a purpose(obviously that assumes you were able to anticipate and have it ready). What if it is just a goofy girl used to grabbing whatever looks interesting and feeling justified in doing it fast and with conviction?

What a puzzling and thought provoking situation.

Still trying to figure this one out - you carry a gun but not on you and without a round in the chamber?
It is not that odd and I know a lot of people feel strongly and outspokenly in favor of always having a round in the chamber as it is obviously much quicker to bring into action in self defense. However I do not always keep a round in the chamber either, as the increased danger of accidental or negligent discharge is not always less of a concern than the increased speed of self defense. Take for example in a locked room where anyone coming will be heard before upon you, or perhaps speeding along on offroad vehicles where your chances of falling are greater than being in a self defense situation(though it is still possible) if it is legal for some to carry in such a situation. Someone else posted carrying while skiing.Firearms are mechanical devices, sometimes the mechanism's fail. Some firearms have floating firing pins that if you had enough inertia like from a fall or car accident the pin could slam forward with enough energy to fire a round.
Others like a Glock do not have external safeties and something like a careless holstering could have the strap engage the trigger. Still others have such a light trigger that grabbing the firearm in the dark( or feeling for it) and tapping the trigger could be dangerous. Yes idealy you can say safety would always prevent an accident, but your still trusting a mechanism 100% of the time that can get old, stick, or fail completely. There is times for a round in the chamber, and times where it is not necessary. Some firearms are safer to keep a round in the chamber than others.
 
I did know 100% for sure that the roommate wasn't in the house. Her car was gone, and Amanda (my girlfriend) knew that she had gone out that evening.
I think, under these conditions, if she had a cell phone, I would have tried to call her to be sure. Somebody could have dropped her off at home because she had car trouble. It is possible for her to have been home unbeknownst to you.

If you felt the police were too busy, say from the weather problems, another option would have been to observe entrances and exits, but I cannot say for certain how long. In a true situation where there is no police back-up, you have to look at the risks vs benefits. When there is police back-up, there is no shame in making use of it.

One man going around a house looking in windows lends a bit of assurance, but not much. The assurance it gave you could be very misleading. All it could tell you is if someone was in the home, not that there was nobody there. You cannot observe all rooms at once. You cannot see well if the rooms are dark. You cannot see behind furniture and into closets from outside. If you used a flashlight, could you have known if the place had been ransacked? If it was not ransacked, that does not mean there is no intruder. An intruder could have been hiding to assault and rape your girlfriend. In such a case, he would not have ransacked the home. Could an intruder have just avoided your flashlight's beam (if you used a flashlight) as he observed it from another room and eluded you, escaping as he heard you shouting throughout the house? Was your girlfriend protected while you were doing this, and can you be sure? What is more important, an empty house or a safe girlfriend?

These are the reasons a team of people clear a building. It is not easy, it is dangerous, even with a team, and it requires training.

I understand your feeling that the wind blew open the door. I'm glad you were right. To arrive at this conclusion though, you assume the door was left unlocked. The wind does not blow open locked doors. If that was your assumption, then it would be well to consider better basic home security. If there is the need for better home security, then would there not also be the suspicion that a malicious intruder may be present under these circumstances? If you did not suspect a malicious intruder, then why go through the house with a drawn gun? If your suspicions are that great, why not call for back-up?

See how this goes?
 
You should have given her a good spanking. Ok. If you don't have the stomach for it, I'll do it. :D

Seriously, call the police next time.
 
Grizz, it appears that the only thing you did wrong was having a gun. If you'd done all the same things unarmed, then you'd have been 'in the right'. Lol.


Hate to piss off the new breed of keyboard commando/lawyer, but have any of you ever waited for police? I mean for things like arguments, or escorts, things that would be higher priority. Let alone investigating 'The Case of the Open Door'.

Ever?

One has to be realistic at some point, the wind blew open a door - do you wait at least an hour for police to come, if they'll come?

There is being Cautious, which is reasonable (phoning a friend), but when you let your Caution make you do silly things like sit outside because you're afraid to go into your house that by all appearances is empty, then you are becoming paranoid.


230rn you honestly consider it 'playing cop' to enter your girlfriend's house? That's 'offensive'?


Xavier said:
If there is the need for better home security, then would there not also be the suspicion that a malicious intruder may be present under these circumstances? If you did not suspect a malicious intruder, then why go through the house with a drawn gun? If your suspicions are that great, why not call for back-up?

See how this goes?

Unbelievable. You obviously have an agenda here so there's probably not much point in reasoning with you. Let's just play along with your theory: It's possible that you could crash your car, so you'd put on your seat-belt. But if you're that afraid of dieing why not just call work and tell your boss why you can't come in?
 
If its plausible that wind blew a locked outer door open on your g/f place without also doing structural damage, you really need to help her out and get her a good lock and either put a dead bolt on, or be sure the existing deadbolt is being used and engages properly.

I like to pour gas on a fire so I'd try to talk to her another time about the debunking of the numbers she has heard. I'd also consider open carrying there all the time. If you really wanted to do something positive though your g/f should try to talk her into taking a trip to the range with the 2 of you sometimes. Its amazing how many people come around a little after a trip.
 
230rn you honestly consider it 'playing cop' to enter your girlfriend's house? That's 'offensive'?

In that situation, yes.

And my caution about this situation idicates that I am not a keyboard commander. Whether that refers to me or others, the slur is a cheap shot.

And what about the "delay?" What's the rush? So you sit out there for awhile to let the pros do it.

I repeat: most unwise. You do it. Not me.
 
I'm not meaning to be insulting, that was wrong of me.

Perhaps you could provide a short list of which situations it's permissible to look around for yourself?



In reality I find it highly unlikely that police would respond at all, and they might ask you for more information which you could only give them by entering - ie 'Is anything missing?'

It just seems really really far-fetched and paranoid to require police and a lawyer before looking around your own house (or your girlfriend's). Really really. Especially when he'd already seen in all the windows.


I wonder if perhaps you are confusing the author's situation with one where you have reasons to believe people are currently inside your house? Because if you saw people moving around in your house as you came home, that's when you and Xavier's statements would start to make sense.
 
In reality I find it highly unlikely that police would respond at all, and they might ask you for more information which you could only give them by entering - ie 'Is anything missing?'
Perhaps in Calgary, they would not respond at all. Where I live, and I suspect in Salt Lake City as well, the wait would be around 15 minutes, depending, of course, on what else was happening in town that may take precedence.

Edited to add: A bit of google searching demonstrated that SLC police had an average 40 minute response time to false alarms set off by home security systems. They have since ceased to respond to these false alarms, unless the home owner notifies them first. This is because they wanted to lower their 40 minute average response time. I think we can safely say the SLCPD will respond if you call.

Unbelievable. You obviously have an agenda here so there's probably not much point in reasoning with you. Let's just play along with your theory: It's possible that you could crash your car, so you'd put on your seat-belt. But if you're that afraid of dieing why not just call work and tell your boss why you can't come in?
No agenda here friend. Just discuss the scenerio at hand, not seatbelts, cars, calling into work, or straw men OK?

If you are certain the wind blew open the door, then there is no need for a search, let alone a gun. Simply close the door and be done with it.

It just seems really really far-fetched and paranoid to require police and a lawyer before looking around your own house (or your girlfriend's).
It is not just the girlfriend's house. It is the roommate's house as well. He suspected she was not there, but had not ascertained it.

Whether gun ignorant or not, that roommate has a right to expect that a boyfriend will not come stalking around her home at night with a loaded gun, regardless of the reasons. I am not saying her actions were correct or right, but as a co-tenant, she has the right to expect that armed men will not enter her home. Her right to privacy and safety supercedes the girlfriend's right to have her boyfriend search the home with a loaded pistol.
 
Her right to privacy and safety supercedes the girlfriend's right to have her boyfriend search the home with a loaded pistol.

But if he waited for the cops to get there, would they not have also been forced to violate the roommate's privacy? Also, by invoking the roommate's right to "safety" are we implying that grizz was being unsafe?

I guess I'm in the camp of "yeah, I probably would have done that, too" with respect to clearing the house without waiting for cops. Just being honest. ;)
 
Maybe I was reading too much into a play on words, one that could have been accidental.

Xavier said:
If there is the need for better home security, then would there not also be the suspicion that a malicious intruder may be present under these circumstances? If you did not suspect a malicious intruder, then why go through the house with a drawn gun? If your suspicions are that great, why not call for back-up?

See how this goes?

Perhaps it's just a mis-understanding, but the author made it quite clear that he did not believe an intruder was present. That may be where the disconnect is coming from.

If you understood that, and stand by your logic, then you should know it can be applied, without alteration, to make good arguments why no-one even needs tools of self defence at all.

Lastly, listed wait-times are one thing, when you actually have to wait it's just different. And those averages could be interpreted any number of ways, are they averaging every hour of every day? Noon might be a quick response and midnight slow, and the 'average' would just be a vague estimate.

Police here are top notch, but still I've seen aggressive individuals waiting for police transport for an hour or more, a politician verbally and physically assaulted (just some shoves) calling police and told someone would be around in half an hour or so, when none come before we leave over an hour later. And my room-mate was calling from his car mid-afternoon, after a high-speed chase, stopped at a red light on a major road while assailants broke in the windows and attempted to pummel and drag them from a vehicle, to get through to an operator and be told that due to the statutory holiday no-one was available.

There's just never going to be enough police to do all the little jobs people want, and the more they try the more severe jobs that suffer.

I'd advise you not to put your faith in averages, in that case they're only of use to statisticians and politicians.
 
I got there, chambered a round, put my XD-40 on my belt holster and walked around the house looking into windows. Everything seemed OK. I then approached the front door and called inside, "Anyone in here!" There wasn't any response and it was windy as heck outside, so I figured that the door probably had a bad lock and was blown open. I cleared the house with pistol drawn, room by room. No bad guys.

10 minutes later, her liberal-as-**** roommate shows up and sees the pistol on my hip. She, without asking and without warning, grabs the gun and tries to remove it from my holster!

sounds like there is a decided lack of maturity here. All involved should grow up.
 
Around here the cops might show up in 45 minutes to an hour. Clearing the house on his own is a judgement call on his own and second guessing is just that. We can all think of things that could have been done differently or better, but we weren't there, were we? I have cleared my own house on a couple of occasions because the door was open. People (read kids) don't always bother to close it properly. They figure if they slam it hard enough as they run out, it will be just fine.

The girl gun grabber is a different story. My opinion, which is just that, is that she started in on you to divert attention away from her own inexcusable behavior. This is a childish tactic that even adults like to use on a regular basis. My advice if this happens again is to bring her back on topic with something like this: "We are not talking about how dangerous guns are, we are talking about why you tried to grab it." It may not work, but applied a few times with a little different wording at least sends the message that you are not going to be diverted. She got you to start defending yourself and she thus got what she wanted - attention diverted from her own actions. Good luck with next time, but I would give her the bum's rush if at all possible. That might not be possible for your girlfriend to do, but she does not need to be living with an irresponsible child like that.
 
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