Girlfriend's roommate attempts to grab gun off my belt without asking!

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grizz, I'm sure I would have done what you did, in the house clearing, if I could remember correctly what my single days were like. I mean, you're sure the house is empty, and you get the chance to "rescue" her from her fears... Style points, maybe not tactical points.

The one tactical suggestion I would have is the same one our local PD uses when they get the call: use a dog.

This would never happen in my house, simply because the dogs will clear the house before I could even close the car door. THEN follow the dog in with weapon at ready, to collect the style points.

Then break the roommate's arm, and explain that statistically more people are injured trying to take away other people's guns than if they left them alone... No wait, never mind the last part.
 
Grizz,

You appear to be 100% correct regarding Utah's gun/car laws.

I still pretty much stand by what I stated previously. Perhaps your girlfriend needs to calm down, close the door, and go about her business. Feminine histrionics are not all that becoming, but they do give boyfriends the chance to be a hero. Don't fall for that trap. It's a mind game. Your girlfriend is perfectly capable of carrying her own gun and taking care of herself. Why doesn't she? Send her over to Oleg's website A Human Right for a bit of reading. Then ask her why she expects you to do all the work and accept all the risks just because you have a Y chromosome.

I'm not sure which young woman's actions are worse. Yep, I pretty much stand by what I posted previously.

Xavier said:
If your girlfriend wanted an armed man to check the security of her home, she should have called the police. She should not have placed you in that kind of legal jeopardy. You should not have placed yourself in that kind of legal jeopardy either, not without a much, much more pressing reason than an open front door.

If these young women have their front door blown open by the wind, as you now suspect happened, then they should learn a bit more regarding basic home security. Step #1, lock your front door.

If you are in someone else's home and they take offense to your gun, even if they act so ignorant as to grab it, your best lawful recourse is to protect the weapon by rotating your body and covering the grip with your own hand. Do not assault them. Instead, apologize and quietly leave. Anything else is going to be hard to explain in court.
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I'll try to read all the posts in this thread, and I will take to heart some of the advice given. I'm sure there will be a lot of posts saying that I'm stupid, that I should have called in SWAT and/or the National Guard, before setting foot in that house, but all I can say is that it was really completely unnecessary to call the cops.
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Considering that I've occasionally be called on to reassure/clear mom's/sister's/girlfriend's apartments armed with nothing more than my rugged manliness, I'm not gonna tell you that you did wrong. As long as you had a reasonable grasp of the risks and didn't honestly think that you were charging into Eleven Mike's "secret terror cell" with an XD40 and a tshirt.

And you're a better man than me for not popping the roommate right in the snotbox.
 
Did you beat the living **** out of her? Did your handgun retention training kick in?
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Choke hold till she passed out , then had your way with her .
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The next member who advocates beating the roommate, raping the roommate, or any other non-high road approach to the roommate's actions will not be posting here very long. Understood?

If members cannot moderate themselves, then I will lend assistance.
 
Assessing & Clearing the House
If I called & waited for police every time I came home & thought something wasn't quite right or heard a bump in the night, I might as well buy a RV and sleep in IT, rather my bed at home.
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Yup, same here. I've probably cleared my house a couple dozen times after spotting something that wasn't right. Barrel bolt on door leading upstairs is unlocked. Did I forget it? I never do! Lamp is on floor. Cats chasing? They don't usually mess things up. Light is on. Did you leave a light on? No, you must have. Anything like this and I will clear my house. And no, it's never been sure enough to warrant a call to the police. I hope that it never is. But I'll bet that practically everyone here has at one time or another cleared a house or location without calling the police. There's simply times that you are 99% sure that nothing is amiss. But for that 1%, you're not willing to just go in and go to bed. Or let your friend/relative/loved one do the same.

Grizz, I think you did fine.
 
Grizz, an attempt at some clarification...

I am not at all criticizing your clearing of the house, under the circumstances; based on the information that you had, and based on what you were able to observe.

Moreover, the lady that grabbed your gun actually got off VERY lightly.

If this happened in Washington State, and I was the RO (responding officer), I would have listened to both sides of the story. Then, I would have asked you if you wanted to press charges.

If you said yes, then I would have taken the lady into custody.

What charge, you might ask?

First, she physically touched your person, IIRC. That makes it Assault.

Since she was actually without a doubt grabbing for a deadly weapon--your firearm--and you were in fear of the firearm being discharged, guess what?

That makes it Assault in the FIRST Degree. That's the highest felony level in this State, and it means BIG prison time.

Meanwhile, once again, you did good. I would recommend--if you don't know this already--that you at least enlist the aid of someone who is adept at clearning buildings to coach you through. Then, practice until you feel comfortable with the procedure.

Good luck--and good job!!:)
 
Powderman,
If the roommate, had not touched the gun at all, but instead called you to remove an unwanted male with a gun from her home, how would you have proceeded?

It's tough when a young man places his future in a young woman's hands, especially when she has a propensity for irrational behavior.
 
Xavier, he was invited into the house. What laws did he break? When the cop shows up, grizz will be a) long gone or b) sitting on the porch, unarmed, with his girlfriend, ready to explain a perfectly legal situation.
 
Xavier, he was invited into the house. What laws did he break?
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I'm glad you asked. Let's assume the roommate was a cosigner on the lease.......
UTAH 76-10-530. Trespass with a firearm in a house of worship or private residence -- Notice -- Penalty.
(1) A person, including a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm pursuant to Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, after notice has been given as provided in Subsection (2) that firearms are prohibited, may not knowingly and intentionally:
(a) transport a firearm into: (i) a house of worship; or
(ii) a private residence; or
(b) while in possession of a firearm, enter or remain in:
(i) a house of worship; or
(ii) a private residence.

(2) Notice that firearms are prohibited may be given by:
(a) personal communication to the actor by:
(i) the church or organization operating the house of worship;
(ii) the owner, lessee, or person with lawful right of possession of the private residence; or
(iii) a person with authority to act for the person or entity in Subsections (2)(a)(i) and (ii);
(b) posting of signs reasonably likely to come to the attention of persons entering the house of worship or private residence;
(c) announcement, by a person with authority to act for the church or organization operating the house of worship, in a regular congregational meeting in the house of worship;
(d) publication in a bulletin, newsletter, worship program, or similar document generally circulated or available to the members of the congregation regularly meeting in the house of worship; or
(e) publication in a newspaper of general circulation in the county in which the house of worship is located or the church or organization operating the house of worship has its principal office in this state.
(3) A church or organization operating a house of worship and giving notice that firearms are prohibited may:
(a) revoke the notice, with or without supersedure, by giving further notice in any manner provided in Subsection (2); and
(b) provide or allow exceptions to the prohibition as the church or organization considers advisable.
(4) (a) (i) Within 30 days of giving or revoking any notice pursuant to Subsection (2)(c), (d), or (e), a church or organization operating a house of worship shall notify the division on a form and in a manner as the division shall prescribe.
(ii) The division shall post on its website a list of the churches and organizations operating houses of worship who have given notice under Subsection (4)(a)(i).
(b) Any notice given pursuant to Subsection (2)(c), (d), or (e) shall remain in effect until revoked or for a period of one year from the date the notice was originally given, whichever occurs first.
(5) Nothing in this section permits an owner who has granted the lawful right of possession to a renter or lessee to restrict the renter or lessee from lawfully possessing a firearm in the residence.
(6) A violation of this section is an infraction.
Link
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It's always good to know the law. All of them.
 
Grizz,

Hope you get a chance to answer my questions from an earlier post:
What I'd like to know is, WHY was she removing the gun from your holster? Curiosity, wanted to see what it looked like? Thought she needed it for protection from a noise she thought she heard? Wanted to stand there looking cool with it? Or was she afraid of you "having that gun, waving it around" and was DISARMING YOU because she perceived YOU as a safety risk? And having taken it, what was she going to DO with it? Take it out to the curb like a dead mouse? Take it to the police? Point it at you? I'm dying to know, why did she do it and what were her intentions? Just out of general interest was she standing in front of you, beside you or behind you when this happened? Please tell us.
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You said she made some general anti-gun statements after you prevented her from removing it, but was that just in reaction to your getting upset with her, or was that the primary motivation behind her grabbing for your gun? There was a lot left unsaid and it would be great to fill in some of the blanks.

You did all right, by the sounds of it. Love to hear more about this. Thanks.
 
Quote:
Did you beat the living **** out of her? Did your handgun retention training kick in?

Quote:
Choke hold till she passed out , then had your way with her .

The next member who advocates beating the roommate, raping the roommate, or any other non-high road approach to the roommate's actions will not be posting here very long. Understood?

If members cannot moderate themselves, then I will lend assistance.
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Thanks, Xavier!

Comments like the ones you noted are utterly out of line.
 
Hate to piss off the new breed of keyboard commando/lawyer, but have any of you ever waited for police? I mean for things like arguments, or escorts, things that would be higher priority. Let alone investigating 'The Case of the Open Door'.

Ever?

One has to be realistic at some point, the wind blew open a door - do you wait at least an hour for police to come, if they'll come?

There is being Cautious, which is reasonable (phoning a friend), but when you let your Caution make you do silly things like sit outside because you're afraid to go into your house that by all appearances is empty, then you are becoming paranoid.
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Well Lucky I Hate to burst your bubble but the answer to you question is YES I had a very similar situation years ago and we DID call and wait for the cops . Had 3 patrol units in less than 5 minutes on the scene .

GF and I had gone to dinner and went back to her home where she lived with her parents to watch movies and found the side door to the home open half way , as it had a screen door with glass in place the wind didn't blow it open .

I could have gone to my home and gotten a gun but calling the police is the prudent thing to do , if you have to shoot someone you need it to be justified and since you have a choice of whether or not to introduce yourself to a situation like this you would be found in the wrong in most states by using deadly force .

Turns out the house was empty , her older brother had come by to borrow something and had been in a hurry and had forgotten to lock the door when he left . The police didn't laugh , roll their eyes or in any way treat us in a belittling manor as a matter of fact we were told they were glad we called as they were trained to do this and if someone had been in there we could have been hurt or killed and they would rather spend 10 minutes clearing a home than investigating a murder .

As for the nutty room mate I probably would have grabbed a finger and bent it back to the point of breaking it and jumped down her throat for being so incredibly stupid as to make a grab for a loaded gun . As stated it is morons like her that cause all of those shootings she was running her mouth about .

People like this can't be reasoned with so don't waste your time and put as much distance between you and her as you can .
 
XavierBreath: Please tell me that you're not accusing me of breaking the law?

Under subsection 2, I would have to be told that I am not permitted to have a firearm in their house. That never happened. Ever. Nor was it implied. Nor would the roommate ever accuse me of having the gun there without her permission.

The roommate never, at any point, told me I didn't have permission to have a gun, and she didn't tell me to leave.

IF she would have said that she didn't want my gun in her house, I would have left immediately, without argument.

I left 5 minutes after she grabbed my gun and went off on her liberal tangent anyway.

The roommate is a former coworker of mine. We know eachother well. Although personally I've never been fond of her, I have never expressed my distase of her personality and our relationship has always been cordial. She wouldn't ever tell me to leave and she wouldn't tell me my gun isn't welcome in her house.

The roommate made a really stupid error in judgment grabbing my gun so unsafely and I surely felt the need to yell at her and make sure she knew that it deeply offended me. She only verbally retaliated because she felt embarrassed that I yelled at her. I did NOT feel it warranted to knock her on her ass or break her arm as some people have suggested I should have done. In this situation that would have been absurd.

I think this thread is now officially worn out. I'm not going to get worked up over people who weren't there second guessing my actions. I'm also certainly not going to pay any further attention to someone suggesting I broke the law.
 
I don't understand why someone would grab after someone else’s weapon? You did the right thing in regards to the roommate.

I also do not fault you for going into the house. You decided that the risk was low, and at least looked through the windows from the outside to see if anything was clearly wrong. Sure calling the cops might have been ideal, but who am I to play Monday morning quarterback?

I have done much worse. My mother is a teacher, and she has had me look through the building of her school when she has gone over there and the alarm was going. I only had a baseball bat, but I knew that it was probably a f/a, and if it wasn't the ear splitting siren would have scared someone away long before I got there. The police should have been called, but when you live in a place that is 60 miles from the nearest police station you learn to not rely on them for matters you have deducted as trivial.
 
Don't try to clear somebody else's house. Have them call the cops. The threat could have been something worse than a liberal roommate.
 
grizz

wow that sucks, I had a roomate's friend grab for mine a while back when I was in my own house, I about dislocated his arm from what he tells me. there's no excuse to grab for someones gun and I'm glad it wasn't me, I'd probably have reacted just as strongly as before and possibly severely hurt her and she wouldn't really deserve that, she's just stupid and doesn't know any better.

as for clearing the house, I'd have done it too. if it was my house I'd clear it, not cower outside in fear until police arrive at their leisure. if it was my girlfriend's house, I wouldn't subject her to anything I wouldn't put myself through.

it really makes you wonder what she was planning on doing with it though.
 
XavierBreath: Please tell me that you're not accusing me of breaking the law?
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No, Grizz, it would be up to a judge to determine that.

What I am saying is you left yourself wide open for an angry and irrational person to make your life a living hell through a series of borderline prosecutions, and to potentially destroy your right to carry a gun if the wrong judge were presiding and you were indeed convicted.

I am very happy that you did not physically harm the irrational roommate as has been recommended by some posters here.
 
If we're already in iffology, then what if there would have been a criminal inside and raping the liberal roommate so the 2 outside wouldn't have seen/heard that; and if they would have opted to calling the police who's arrival would take time. Finally the girl would have been banged and killed, before the BG would have been caught by LEO.

Would it make the legal types more happy, that required procedures were followed, instead of sweeping the place and nailing the BG ASAP? What if there is real trouble and LEO doesn't show up? We have had such stuff here before.

But as they say, iffology is a science. It's easy to second-guess the events, as we have all day to think up all kinds of "what-if's" and "shoulda's", people on the spot might have only seconds or few minutes.

Sure we can argue about the maturity of actions, especially since sweeping the house is pretty much dangerous for even pros, let alone single CCW holder, but the guy's gut feeling was right on this one, so a valuable lesson learned.
 
Xavier,

Grizz was asked to come to the property by a resident thereof who didn't object to his being armed. It is ridiculous to suggest that he would check first to make sure it was OK with the other residents, especially within a timeframe of five minutes. You wouldn't do it, either. I suggest it wouldn't even occur to you, and wouldn't be safe to do, as that would involve using the phone will driving. Sure, the roommate could bring some kind of scurrilous charge, but anyone can do that at any time. The one mistake I would agree he might have made was in drawing the gun, as the roommate might have been inside and could then have reason to charge he threatened her with a weapon, etc. Aside from this, his judgement was very sound.

His other options were
a) don't come and just call the police
b) come and leave the gun in the car
c) wait out in his car in the street, with the gun ready
Which do suggest?
 
instinct

I used to carry just behind my waist and trained myself to protect that position on my body. My daughter came up behind me and put her hand there. I reacted instinctively and trapped her hand and took her to the floor. She was quite startled and apologized all over as she knew better.

Unfortunately, the next person that did it was my boss. I had her halfway to the ground before I realized anything was off. I apologized all over the place. She went to the next one up the line and he gave her a dressing down and told her that she had no business touching me in the first place and that she knew I worked for a PD part time. He told her that I probably carried in that position and had probably been trained in weapon retention.He further advised her that she was lucky that she was not hurt further. She was not happy.

My wife and daughter know better to grab that area. They also know not to walk on my strong side or to take my strong arm when we are out in public..

Your girlfriend's roomate is stupid and could have gotten herself killed. She was lucky that you had the presence of mind not to overreact. You're welcome on my team anytime.;)
 
Gee, the original post seemed to be more about the roomate grabbing the gun than the guy taking it upon himself to "clear" the house, but so many here want to jump on him for doing so. Given the the further details related by the original poster in post #102, i.e., that the girlfriend had already entered the house from a side door and ran and locked herself in her bedroom when she noticed the front door open, standing outside and waiting for the cops is not an option for me. Right or wrong, smart or stupid, I'm not waiting outside for however long it takes for the cops to get there while she is inside.

Edited to add:

As for the roomate grabbing for the gun, she's in for a great deal of verbal abuse and education from me, but those who advocate more violent and physical response are out of line, in my opinion. This is not some incident involving an unknown person but a girl exercising stupidity in her own home. A violent response is a good way to find youself on the wrong end of a complaint which will temporarily, perhaps permanently, deprive you of your rights to possess firearms.
 
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