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Give me advice on a long range beginners rifle and scope!

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Dtmoss14, Aug 13, 2007.

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  1. Dtmoss14

    Dtmoss14 Member

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    I was thinking maybe a Sako, Savage or Remington in .308 but as far as specific models I am lost. Feel free to advise other makers as well.

    I also have almost no knowledge of optics.

    Thank You!

    Edit: I would also like to add that I will be shooting for purely recreational purpose and I do not hunt.

    Just so everyone knows: What i mean by long range is 700 yards and up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2007
  2. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    Depends on your budget.

    $1000:

    Savage tactical ~ $500
    Warne Picatinny base ~ 75
    TPS steel 30mm rings ~ 75
    SWFA SuperSnipe 10x ~ $300

    $2500
    FN SPR ~ $1300
    TPS 30MM rings ~75
    USO ST-10S / Leupold MkIV 3.5x10/Nikon Monarch X 2.5-10x ~ $1000

    Goes up from there
     
  3. CommanderPoopyduX

    CommanderPoopyduX Member

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    Firstly, what do you consider to be long range. You may find that your definition of long range doesn't meet the need to step up to a FN. I just bought a Remington 700 SPS - Varmint in .223 because I am going to be shooting 300 to 400 yards. To me that is long range (as I am a beginner). I went with .223 because it is cheaper to shoot, doesn't recoil so I can shoot it all day, and is easy to find commercial ammo for. I also have a 30-06 hunting rifle though, and thus only need this gun to punch holes in paper from far away. Tell us what you are imagining you will do with this rifle and you will get much more specific answers.
     
  4. The Annoyed Man

    The Annoyed Man Member

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    About a month and a half ago, I bought a Remington 700 VSF Left-Hand (yes, I shoot from the sinister side). I've only been able to get to the range twice since buying it, and due to local range restrictions, I have only shot it out to 100 yards so far, but at that distance, it easily shoots under 1 MOA, even getting down to .5 MOA a few times. The rifle lists for $1,185.00, but I "only" paid $831.00 at a local dealer. I've mounted a Leopold 4.5-14x50mm scope, and I've had the trigger lightened to 3.5 lbs. The overall impression is of a refined rifle that shoots very accurately. Details like the tan stock, the fluted barrel, and the jeweled bolt body add to that impression. Here is a picture of mine.

    However, if I had to club somebody to death with a rifle, I would pick my son's brand new, never been shot yet, Savage 10FP HS Precision ($799.00 from a local dealer). It is a beast. A tank. A battle-axe. A broad sword. It ought to shoot very nicely when we get a chance to get it to the range. But it does not give the same impression of refinement as does the Remington. The Savage is tight, very well put together, and has a wonderful trigger, but it is all black, and appears thick and brutish. My son has topped it with a Bushnell 4200 Elite 6-24x40mm scope. I have to say, at 17 years old, he has better taste in rifles than I did at his age. Here is a picture of his rifle

    Since a measeley $32 separates the price of the two rifles, I would say that price should not be much of a factor in making your choice. Also, don't let looks be a determinant. It's cool when a rifle looks like it will do what it alleges to do, but the most important thing is how tiny your groups are going to be, not what the rifle looks like. Pick ugly and accurate over beautiful but useless. Besides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and in any really good design, form always follows function. The Savage AccuTrigger is Pure D Awesome for a right out of the box rifle. I had to spend an additional $50 or so at my local gunsmith's to get my Remington trigger lightened to 3.5 lbs - which makes it feel like the OEM AccuTrigger setup. Scope selection will have a huge impact on the price of the total package, since you should be prepared to spend a significant percentage of your rifle's price on a decent scope for it.

    If I had to do it over again, I would give a long hard look at the Savage rifle for myself, even though I am very satisfied with the Remington. I chose the Remington simply because it was left handed, and available on the shelf at the time I was ready to buy. (Trust me, being left handed is like that, and it gets even worse - and more expensive - when you are talking about fine guitars). In short, either rifle would be a good choice for a beginning long range shooter.

    I wish I could tell you more about shooting technique, but I'm new to this long distance game myself, having only shot out to 750 yards once in my life, and it was almost comical. So I'll defer to more experienced and wiser heads in that area.

    I apologize for being long winded, but I hope this information was useful in helping you to make your rifle selection.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2007
  5. Regolith

    Regolith Member

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    If your on a budget, go with Savage. Their rifles can be had for around $400, and from what I've heard most will shoot sub-MOA right out of the box. They also have easily adjustable triggers, something the Remington doesn't have yet.

    If you got a little more money, look into Remington. They are more easily customizable, and can be made to shoot extremely accurately if you put enough money into them. They are also a little bit more refined.
     
  6. mgh

    mgh Member

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    I wanted to shoot the long distance match at my gun club, but I didn't want to put too much money in it. So last week I got a Stevens Model 200 in .223 with a Bushnell Elite 3200 scope. The Stevens was two eighty, the scope three sixty. Along with the rings and tax my starter set up was about seven and a half.

    I did some research on this. The Stevens is supposed to be pretty much a Savage without the Accu-trigger, and with an ugly polymer stock. I picked the .223 round because it's inexpensive to reload and there's plenty of relatively cheap factory ammo. Also, it was supposed to shoot pretty flat, and (supposedly) could reach out to 600 yards. Not much recoil. I don't know much about optics either, so I followed the recommendation of someone I trust at the gun store and went with the Bushnell.

    On Saturday I went to the range to try it out. The scope is good - very clear and bright. I shot some Remington 55 grain rounds. Once sighted in I was able to shoot an approximately three inch group of five rounds at 100 yards. I'm happy with that, as it was my first time shooting a bolt action rifle from a bench rest. I liked the trigger - crisp and light. But I've been shooting double action revolvers for a long time, and anything less that eight pounds feels light.

    Next I tried it on the 300 yard range. I was able to keep the first five or six rounds on the 8 inch target, but they were all over, no grouping. After that, it was hit and miss. I wasn't waiting too long between rounds at that point, and the barrel got hot - from what I've read, that will affect accuracy. Of course, a lot of the problem was with the shooter.

    I'm very pleased with the rifle and scope. It's just about right to learn with. The price was right. After I learn to shoot it I might upgrade to a .308.
     
  7. 30Cal

    30Cal Member

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    The wind starts to matter at 300yds, so if it's not calm, you'll probably want to shoot at a brisk pace. 10rds in a minute or so will tell you whether or not the rifle will act up as it heats up (and it won't hurt the rifle to check--we do it all the time in Highpower competition).

    Ty
     
  8. JTW Jr.

    JTW Jr. Member

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    I had a $1000 budget , went with TIkka T3 Lite in .308 and a 10x Super Sniper , Harris Bipod , came in just under $900 total.
     
  9. The Annoyed Man

    The Annoyed Man Member

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    I have seen Savage rifles for around $400, but they have all been inexpensive "package" guns and the like, with light barrels, and cheap stocks. On the other hand, even the cheap ones have that great trigger, and at least one of the package guns I saw, a deer rifle in .30-06, had a fully floated barrel. However, I've never seen a new in the box heavy barreled Savage sniper rifle for that price. If you have a line on where one like that can be had for $400, I would sure appreciate it if you'd send me a PM. I'll buy one tomorrow.
     
  10. Regolith

    Regolith Member

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    Annoyed....yeah, the heavy barreled sniper version isn't available at that price. But he didn't specify exactly what he means by "long range," and hence a heavy barrel might not be as necessary. If "long range" means 200-500 yards, the standard hunting setups should work fine.
     
  11. Dtmoss14

    Dtmoss14 Member

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    I would like to shoot as far as I can accurately with a price point of around 600-700 for the rifle (alone). Thanks.

    EDIT: I am willing to flunctuate in price a bit if it will make a difference.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2007
  12. Regolith

    Regolith Member

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    Dtmoss....I would say that the Savage 10FP would work then. Its about $600 or so, maybe a little less. It has a heavier barrel than the hunting rifles, but not as heavy as the 10FP HS Precision, and its within your price range, where as the 10FP HS Precision is a little outside of it.
     
  13. Andrewsky

    Andrewsky Member

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    Browning A-Bolt.

    Good looking
    Smooth Action
    Very Accurate
    Awesome Safety Placement
    Reasonably Priced

    I have one in .300 Win Mag with a 3.5-10x Leupold on it. It easily shoots less than 1moa. Both of the deer I shot with it were DRT.
     
  14. oneeyesnipe

    oneeyesnipe Member

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    I Just Put A Savage Model 12 F/tr In Layaway 975.00 And I Did Alot Of Research Myself I Also Looked At The Remington 700 And A Buddy Of Mine Has A Cz Which Is Very Accurate Shooting Times 2007 Has A Big Article On The Savage You May Be Able To Get A Copy Off The Net At Their Website One Test Shows 0.88 Inches At 500 Yds There Is My 2 Cents Worth Good Luck
     
  15. Expertowgunner

    Expertowgunner Member

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    Get a Savage 10fp, you wont regret it at all. Put 4 rounds in the same hole at 200 yds with cheap remington ammo.

    Bought mine for 500, and it came with the thumbhole stock (plus different cheekwelds), harris bipod, accutrigger, and weaver mounts. Had only 70 rounds put through it, and i topped it with a millet tactical 4-16x50 30mm scope (with illuminated mil-dot). overall cost for rings and rifle was under 900 for me and it is a hell of a shooter too.
     
  16. Expertowgunner

    Expertowgunner Member

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    BTW, a lot of people seem to hate the plaster thumbhole stock (it does look a little ugly) but where it shines is functionality. Its aluminum bedded, free floating, adjustable cheekpieces and stock spacers, and is TOUGH AS HELL. super accurate rifle which seems to be dogged by people who view it as a "peasent" rifle to their ultra expensive custom $3500+ rifles with $6000 dollar scopes on it. Great rifle if you wish to get a police/military sniper type rifle that is easy on the wallet. Remington 700s are always a great alternative and so are the fns but the savage really does shine for the price and quality.
     
  17. Expertowgunner

    Expertowgunner Member

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    Again BTW dont get the factory stock on the savage, ive heard bad stories about them (being weak and flimsy) so id go with the plaster stock or the hs precision stock. ive never had experience with the factory stocks but thats the general consense on them.
     
  18. erict

    erict Member

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    I had one with the John Plaster stock and it was very comfortable. It did weigh in @ 18 pounds though with an aftermarket heavy barrel on it :eek:.

    I have a 10fp in .223 that's an awesome shooter and VERY accurate. It still has the factory stock on it and the word "sucks" doesn't even describe it. I plan to replace the stock soon.

    Either way, you won't be disappointed with a Savage rifle.
     

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  19. BigSoundRacing

    BigSoundRacing Member

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  20. Dtmoss14

    Dtmoss14 Member

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    Hey Andrewsky, just so I know what model of the A-bolt do you recommend? Also, hows the trigger?

    Thanks!

    How come the savage 10fp or 12f/tr isn't on their website?

    Will the 12f/tr shoot quite a bit better than the 10fp? Higher quality?

    Thanks
     
  21. Dtmoss14

    Dtmoss14 Member

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  22. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    The FN SPR comes with a McMillin A3 stock and they guarantee 1 MOA or better, all for around $1300. It also includes a NEAR mfg 20MOA picatinny base.

    No light barrel should be considered if you are planning on shooting more than a couple of rounds.

    Where I hear long range, that means 1000 yards. 600 yards is service rifle range.

    Savage is the definite pick in the under $1000 (wih scope) category.

    The Tikka is a decent rifle, particularly the tactical model. But the lack of any after-market parts and the very expensive plastic mags move this rifle down the list AFAIC.

    The Remington LTR is a very good base rifle, and there are all sorts or after-market options available.
     
  23. Regolith

    Regolith Member

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    Dtmoss...the Savage 10FP is listed under the "Law enforcement" section. (P stands for Police).
     
  24. Dtmoss14

    Dtmoss14 Member

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    So what about the 10fp vs. the 12 f/tr? Is the stock on the 10fp that bad?

    Is the HS Precision 10fp widely available? I know the stock will be nice but to be honest it isn't the best looking to me. (Although I like it quite a bit more than the choate stocks.)

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2007
  25. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Member

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    Savage 10FP

    You can't beat a Savage 10FP .308 in any of it's iterations. I got to try the new Accu-Trigger and it is awesome! Best bang for the buck IMO.
     
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