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Glock 17, 19 Brass to face....

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by DustyGmt, Apr 21, 2019.

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  1. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    That’s almost always THE problem for BTF in late Gen3 early Gen4.
     
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  2. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    I just checked 10 of my Glocks, 7 Gen 3's and 3 Gen 4's. The Gen 3's (three 17's, one 19 and three 26's) and all have the 336 ejector. The three Gen 4's (two 17's and a 19), all have the 30274 ejector.

    All of them run pretty much the same, with the same random BTF, as well as other malfunctions, "on occasion". The BTF is really not any kind of a regular thing. The other malfunctions are more common.


    Not really. I have it happen occasionally with most of my autos.

    But like I said earlier, for me, I think the main cause of malfunction problems, with all of them, is worn rims on the cases. I generally have zero issues with new factory ammo or reloads with lower cycles on them.

    Kind of an afterthought here, but you dont think some of this might be a grip issue? Not the limp wrist thing, just maybe not a good, solid grip?
     
  3. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    Could be.

    The guns I had BTF issues with was only with 115 FMJ range ammo. Never Hydrashok then Gold Dot or 9mm NATO.

    A new ejector fixed every pistol that had a problem. And everyone else’s pistol that had BTF that I changed their ejector.

    I bet if you tightened up your grip and only ran hotter ammo, you’d never have BTF. Old ejector or not. I still had some BTF with a gorilla grip...
     
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  4. JDR

    JDR Member

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    I know when I’m shooting I need to focus on sight alignment, sight picture, and trigger control and not be preoccupied with which way the brass is flying.
     
  5. vtsteve

    vtsteve Member

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    I had this issue with a late gen3 17, and it drove me nuts that everyone kept blaming “limp twisting”. Never mind the fact that I’ve got a dozen other pistols, years of experience and have never had the problem with any other gun before or since that glock. Maybe it can exacerbate the problem, but you’re way more likely to have a stovepipe than erratic ejection from a weak hold.

    Anyway, I tried replacing the ejector in mine with the 30274 and it did seem to help a tiny bit but did not fix the problem for me. What finally fixed it once and for all was replacing the extractor, and I splurged on the Apex “high reliability” one which completely solved the problem.

    What I found was that the stock extractor was not gripping the rim firmly enough through the operating cycle for it to strike the ejector consistently. You can test this by chambering a round, then removing the magazine. Slowly rack the slide, and if the round falls down through the magazine well before it reaches the ejector, there’s your problem.

    Also, if you push the extractor against its spring/plunger it should readily snap back to position when you let it go. I found that my factory part would hang up a little sometimes, which explains the weak grip on the case. I noticed the stock part fit very tightly in its recess which may have had something to do with it. I believe they switched to a new style extractor at some point to incorporate the loaded chamber indicator into it. I had to replace the spring/plunger with a “non-LCI” type when I installed the aftermarket extractor.
     
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  6. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

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    Well by regularly I mean after shooting. With my glocks I usually try to run at least a few hundred between cleanings as opposed to sitting down after every few magazines... It depends
     
  7. rskent

    rskent Member

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    I would hate to see you buy parts for you gun and later find out that there was a piece of crud stuck behind the extractor.
     
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  8. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Clean it good.

    Wwb is a bit too weak. Good for malf drills. Both 9mm and .380 have this happen often. Some ammo is just too weak for certain pistols.

    You can try a fresh extractor, but I usually get a gen3 SS guide rod, and adapter for 9mm Glocks.
     
  9. JDR

    JDR Member

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    There are claims that the Apex Fault Tolerant Extractor helps fix this problem but I have no direct experience with this item. The later Gen4 9mm #30274 ejector also seems to help.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  10. rskent

    rskent Member

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    There are also claims that using quality full power ammunition helps fix this problem as well, but I have no direct experience with it.
     
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  11. zaitcev

    zaitcev Member

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    Apex does help with the BttF problem. Unfortunately, Apex is not compatible with my Brownells slide: keeps losing the grip on the case. I'm sure it works great in the factory slides.
     
  12. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm sorry I didn't see this thread earlier, I'd thought that this issue of BTF was well known...as was the cause.

    The issue is that current Glock's extractors don't have secure purchase on the case rim after the case is extracted from the chamber. The case just "floats" atop the round coming up in the magazine. If the extractor pulled the case out with enough force (why changing extractors sometimes helps) and the inertia throws it against the ejector (why changing the ejector sometimes helps) hard enough the case will eject as it does on other pistols. If the preceding conditions are not present, the case is struck by the breech face of the returning slide, which then throws it against the front of the ejection port, which it turn throws it back into the shooter's face.

    This is easy to test on your Glock:
    1. retract slide and insert loaded magazine
    2. release slide and chamber a round
    3. remove magazine
    4. fire chambered round
    5. if the empty case falls through the magazine well instead of out the ejection port, your extractor doesn't have a secure purchase on the case rim
     
  13. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

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    You don't know BTF, until you know 50A.E...:)

    "When did you get that crescent moon and Starline tattoo on your forehead?"
     
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  14. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

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    Very consise, thank you. Somebody else inboxed me a very comprehensive overview of possible causes and solutions so I will take it and run. I had never once before having this problem ever heard of any Glock, ever having a problem, issue, malfunction of any kind so this came as quite a shock as I'm sure you can imagine. I used to think they were out of the box "perfection". I feel like I just found out my Glock has herpes ... oh well, that's life, nothing's perfect. Thanks for the info.
     
  15. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

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    What do you consider to be quality full powered ammunition? I have always shot PMC, S&B, WWB and if all they had was remington I'd occasionally buy that. Nothing really against remington I just had some malfunctions with various different guns and the common denominator seemed to be remington ammo. Could be wrong, Idk.
     
  16. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    So you never heard about the issues with:
    1. Slidestop wearing down slide
    2. Magazines being hard to pull out due to bulge
    3. Magazines not falling free
    4. WML causing malfunctions in feeding

    There is also a reason they are on the 11th generation of magazines
     
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  17. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    Usually something other than economy 115gr ammo. Usually, the 124gr and up (or the +P stuff if you want to pay for it) ammo provides a little more "oomph" to drive the slide.
     
  18. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

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    Actually no. I have 30+ glock mags and they all drop free so I guess that's a win. I don't run a weapon light but I intend to, been looking at lights but it looks like I'll have to look into the pros and cons of that... I'm not afraid to put a few bucks into my things to make them perform well, I would just prefer if glock charged me more to make them right to begin with...
     
  19. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    You will find that most people that complain about the problem with Glocks know very little about them. Changes have been made to Glocks over the years, but the gun market has changed also. Some of the changes that Glock has made were to keep up with the market. Other companies have dropped models and came out with others that have failed.
    Now Glock is not the best pistol on the market, but it sure has been doing pretty good since it came out.
     
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  20. uofaengr

    uofaengr Member

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    If the problem is Glock extractors, can someone explain why every video I've seen of every single Gen 5 has brass ejecting further and more consistently than just about any Gen 3 or 4 9mm I've ever seen. Has to be some kind of design change there.
     
  21. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    As the Gen 5 hasn't even been out 2 years, it may be some time before we start hearing about the quirks of the Gen 5 models. The BTF issue of the Gen3 and Gen4 9mm models often didn't surface until over 1k rounds had been fired through them. For my uses, the GEN 2 G19 was almost perfect. I only sold it to a friend who got tired of the BTF issue with all 3 of his Gen3 G19. The only Glocks I still have are a Gen2 G22 and two Gen3...a G34 and a G30SF

    I wouldn't be surprised as they do claim that there are 20 design changes from the Gen4. Glock isn't known for admitting when they tweak "perfection" to address issues, it just isn't part of their business culture
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
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  22. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    Web search - Glock Gen 5 breech face cut
     
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  23. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    Here are some pics I just took so that you don’t have to go surcharging for some.
    First pic, left to right. G45, 19X, 17 Gen 4 and 19FS Gen 3.
    You can see the notch cutout on the G45 slide and also that the G45 and the 19X have a different profile to the extractor.
    4653F635-FF77-4DC1-9DA8-939120672214.jpeg

    G45 on the left 17 Gen 4 right
    04D10CBB-534C-4033-AC42-3C81331C5148.jpeg 8789A3D5-586A-416A-8994-CB1C4A25E8CB.jpeg

    I know for a fact that you have to pull the slide back a little harder on the G45 to get a cartridge case to eject.
     
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  24. uofaengr

    uofaengr Member

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    Thanks, makes sense.

    My Gen 4 19 has over 3k now, and while I don't get any specifically to the face, I will get the occasional case that dribbles onto my right arm as a left handed shooter and the occasional case that goes straight over my head. The first day I ever shot it, I remember spent 124gr Federal HSTs going over my head.

    If it was repeatedly hitting me in the face I wouldn't be happy, but as long as they get out of the gun it doesn't bother me it's not all in a neat little pile.

    I have considered the 43 to be more of a Gen 4.5 gun, but I have never thought to check to see if it has a similar breech cut. It chucks cases out like an AK.
     
  25. uofaengr

    uofaengr Member

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    IMO Glock could have highlighted as a "feature" "enhanced ejection" and give it some kind of marketing spin such as the "marksman barrel".

    However there are enough things about the Gen 5 I don't like that I'll stick with Gen 4 until they're discontinued.
     
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