Glock Frustrations

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by giggitygiggity, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. giggitygiggity

    giggitygiggity Member

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    I think Glock pistols are rugged, reliable, and great guns overall.

    As a company, it is frustrating how little Glock seems to innovate and diversify. Many of you already recognize this, but I’d like to share my observations.

    Of course it is silly how the different generations only exhibit minor changes and, depending on your taste, you may see the changes as either improvements or detractors.

    However, what I find most disconcerting is the lack of variants. For instance, only certain models have optics-ready variants. Moreover, non-black Glocks appear only as super limited runs. No Glocks have manual safety variants.

    I am not advocating for/against optics-ready, certain colors, or manual safeties. I only bring this up because if you look at S&W, they offer the Shield and Shield Plus in multiple configurations. The same is true for many other companies.

    Yes, I understand that Glock probably doesn’t care and can just ride on its LE contacts. My point isn’t to say that Glock is going to go out of business if they don’t do what I am suggesting, etc.

    Furthermore, there is something to be said for simplicity, both in the products themselves, but also the manufacturing and administration of the products. However, it seems that the simplicity of its product line should avail itself to minimal effort in expanding variants offered, meaning there should be minimal tooling or designing requiring to chart a path forward to enable more optics-ready variants or different colors, etc.

    The last recommendation that I have is that Glock needs to improve its trigger. Most polymer-framed striker-fired guns now have great triggers (PDP, P10 series, Canik offerings).

    I have many Glocks and will continue to buy more as they are simple and reliable. However, I find more and more offerings from other brands that are just as reliable, but that have great triggers, have optics-ready variants, and are offered in multiple colors. It seems like other brands enable people to choose an exact configuration that suits there preferences whereas Glock basically says, “take it or leave it, but this is what you get.”
     
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  2. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    It’s not just Glock, most manufacturers have a difficult time straying far from their roots. Consider S&W’s pistols and magazine disconnects. Models without this “feature” have warnings on them to this day!

    In both cases the philosophy is sound, cater to your biggest clientele of bulk buyers (law enforcement) with consistent controls. That reduces the number of oopsies when in use.

    Kinda vanilla but understandable at the same time.
     
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  3. Lo-Profile

    Lo-Profile Member

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    I'm a Sig Sauer affectionado, do have a couple of Glocks. Both Gen 3, 19 & 21sf
    Glocks have 3 safeties already, why add another? Maybe it's just because you can't see them that you think they aren't there or because your not "actively" moving them manually (besides the trigger).
    I agree that Glock triggers suck. I replace the connector with a better one that lightens the trigger to 3.5#. On par with my best 1911.

    Sig Sauer has different ways of annoying you. God forbid that you can buy a magazine that fits in a different gun. Or buy a OEM magazine that doesn't cost under $45.
    They don't use external safeties on most of their metal framed DA/SA guns. They do on the newer polymer framed ones. But I love the DA/SA triggers of the old P2xx guns. I also feel perfectly safe carrying my P250sc DAO in a pocket without a holster or safety.
    I think my two Ruger guns are the worst as far as safeties and triggers and things.
    But I shoot them all as often as I can.
     
  4. jrmiddleton425

    jrmiddleton425 Member

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    Glocks equipped with an OEM safety have been made. They probably could be manufactured again. To make a long story short, Glock will do special orders...it's a matter of paying them to do the production run.
     
  5. Homerboy

    Homerboy Member

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    The trigger dingus on a Glock is a joke. It’s not a safety. It’s totally unnatural to place your finger above that dingus to pull the trigger. Your finger, a strap, or anything else that gets into that trigger guard is going to pull that trigger. The firing pin block is standard on virtually all modern semi autos. The “three safety” slogan they use is intentionally misleading and created to persuade new buyers who don’t know much about guns. It’s like saying “Frosted Flakes is part of this nutritious breakfast”. Sure it is.

    Glocks are good guns. I was thinking of getting a new Gen 5 Glock 17. I can get it in the Blue Label program for $450. I have a Ruger PC9 that uses Glock mags so there’s that. But the S&W M&P 2.0 feels so much nicer in my hands.

    It is true that they are the same product over and over again. 30 years of essentially the same product gets old.
     
  6. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    Meh.. They are what they are. Plenty of other manufactures out there that can give you what you want.
     
  7. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    If what they are doing bugs you, there are plenty of others out there that will do the same. Pick the one that bugs you the least. :)

    Hopefully, Glock sticks to their guns and doesnt wander too far off and water down the product line with endless variations, and go the route of SIG and a few others. Thats the main reason I went from 1911's to SIG's, and then on to Glocks.
     
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  8. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    There are people who will not only swear that the trigger is already too light, but will get really angry if you suggest otherwise. :D
    It is a safety. It is, if nothing else, a drop safety. Without it, the gun could discharge if dropped by inertial operation of the trigger. With it, the trigger is locked in place and can't be operated by inertia.

    In addition to that, if you actually experiment, you will see that the placement of the trigger safety, the shape of the trigger and the way the trigger safety operates all work together to cut down somewhat on the chance of a trigger snag. It clearly won't eliminate trigger snags, but it does make them a bit less likely.
    Of course it is. It's not there to keep the user from pulling the trigger. Glock is very clear about the fact that the gun is designed to fire if the trigger is pulled on a loaded chamber and, in fact, considers that a selling point. Expecting the Glock trigger safety to prevent the user from pulling the trigger is like expecting the manual safety on a Beretta 92FS to prevent the user from chambering a round from the magazine. It won't prevent that because it's not supposed to.
     
  9. cslinger

    cslinger Member

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    I guess I will be that guy. Sort of. :). I think a trigger needs to be as able to fire a gun when necessary but it is just as important if not more so for it NOT to fire a gun when not needed. I think Glock’s half cocked mechanism is actually just about the edge of this. While I enjoy shooting guns like the PPQ etc. etc. etc. they all use a fully cocked striker and to me that’s basically akin to a cocked and unlocked 1911.

    I am perfectly comfortable with strikers but think Glock does the best in terms of real hard use working gun IMO.

    But I am a DA/SA troglodyte at heart so there is that. :)
     
  10. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    That’s my stance IMO. Glocks trigger is fine for a combat gun, sure it’s no bullseye trigger but I can wring as much performance out of a Glock as any of my 1911s inside 20 yards just fine.

    But really there’s a solution for every complaint, and it’s to just buy one of the myriad competitors that offer everything one could want. Glock obviously hasn’t decided there’s enough of a ROI to mess with a sure thing, and it’s been working for them even in the gun buying lull a few years ago.

    They did make some very positive changes in the Gen 5 IMO, and I’m sure more MOS models are on the way eventually, as I see optics ready guns as the default model before too long.
     
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  11. luzyfuerza

    luzyfuerza Member

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    @giggitygiggity , the solution is simple. If you don't like Glock's product strategies, then I'd suggest you save your pennies and make Gaston an offer he can't refuse.

    Acknowleding that Glocks are simple, rugged, and reliable while in the same post griping about them not coming in desert tan? Or pink?

    Talk about missing the big picture...
     
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  12. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    For colors, if the premium prices special runs are too much one can always Cerakote I guess. I’m putting together a cerakoted desert camo Gen 3 Glock 17 on a FDE frame. Once I pick the frame up from my FFL I’ll post about how it shoots.

    As for model options, look at the recalls S&W had with their shield ez, SIG had several models flop and others needed recalls, SA had Xd 3.3 recalls, etc. These can cost millions to develop/market and, if poorly done, to litigate and rectify, so coming out with new models just to create new models can potentially backfire. Glock (and HK pistols) have stuck to what works for them and haven’t had any recalls.

    As for options, today Glock makes a ton of guns that weren’t out years ago. Just in 9mm: 17, 17L, 19, 26, 34 (older ones), 19X ,45, 43, 43X, 48. Add in all the generational ones and there are more options (They still make Gen 3 for Ca sales), add in the caliber options and I think there is close to 50 different guns one can choose from if you live in a non-communist State.

    Yeah, the actions and grip frames are very similar across the board, and I prefer a flat trigger so mine often get swapped out, and the larger framed ones feel like a 2x4 to me so I don’t own any, but the company has found a successful formula to sell tons of guns for decades with little change to their process. That’s a moneymaker if I’ve ever seen it.

    In the future I can maybe see a long slide .22 like a 34-length (for rimfire 3-gun or tactical team member practice) and maybe a 42/43 sized one, ala the LCP II, for subcompact practice or carry for grip/recoil challenged folks.

    Not a fanboy, as Glock is one of many makes I own and shoot and I’m not enamored with them outside of the 9mm’s and the .22 Glocks I own, but I am trying to figure out a genuine reason why a company would be expected to torpedo a successful business model.

    Stay safe.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  13. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    Lol.. Glock always has "upgrades" instead of "recalls".
     
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  14. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    BIG difference between an upgrade, redesign or cosmetic alteration and a safety recall due to a defect in design or application.
    Just ask any automaker. ;)
    Stay safe.
     
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  15. giggitygiggity

    giggitygiggity Member

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    I suspect what you are insinuating through your “missing the big picture” comment is that I somehow feel that cosmetics such as color are of equal or greater importance as function. If so, that is a gross misinterpretation and/or mis-categorization of my original post.

    There is a slippery slope in which people will want what many consider obscure variations such as pink frames and there is no way for a company to placate everyone’s tastes outside of custom work. However, I feel that my suggestions of different color variations, manual safety offerings, and optics ready offerings is consistent with trends in the market. To what extent a company embraces that is up to the company. I am not recommending that Glock produces guns of every imaginable color, but I suspect that adding colors such as FDE would sell well and possibly draw more customers. Furthermore, I am confident that if every model had an MOS variation, then more consumers would be drawn to Glock.

    The big picture is that there are companies that produce simple, rugged, and reliable guns AND offer them in multiple variations. If you’re content with the Glock variations offered, more power to you. But, as an example, I suspect many folks would love to be able to own a Glock MOS model in their favorite caliber (perhaps .45ACP) and not have to choose between their favorite caliber (let’s say .45ACP) OR an MOS model in a less preferred caliber (let’s say 9mm) since they don’t make any MOS .45ACPs.

    Realistically, there is a point in which a company has an overload of options which can create manufacturing burdens as well as confuse customers. For instance, Ruger has lots of offerings and exclusives within many of its product lines, which I argue makes it difficult for consumers to differentiate between SKUs and even more difficult to source products in times of high demand. I assess that Glock falls on the extreme other end of the spectrum where variations are lacking. I think S&W hits the sweet spot where they offer a number of variations, but it does not overwhelm consumers and I suspect it benefits S&W as evidenced by S&W’s continual product line variant expansion. For instance, if I want a Shield Plus, I can get one with/without an optics cut and with/without a manual safety; this menu of options is simple, yet appeals broadly. Even H&K does a good job in this respect as they have optics ready variants, threaded barrel variants, and an array of safety configurations.

    Are you suggesting that as long as a company’s product is simple, rugged, and reliable, that consumers should cease to offer suggestions as to how to increase the appeal of a product line? That is a rhetorical question and I am not asking it in an attempt to patronize or insult since I am confident you would not make such a maligned proposition. However, the question underscores a point… just because Glock does things right (simple, rugged, reliable), doesn’t mean that Glock is doing the right things (more offerings, wider appeal, etc). In fairness, what is right has inputs from both consumers (what we want) and the company (what maximizes profit).

    I acknowledge that my recommendations are biased as a consumer and that perhaps there are nuances unknown to consumers with which Glock must contend that makes its lack of variations the right thing from a business perspective. However, I argue that if other companies such as S&W and H&K can produce an array of variations within their pistol product lines, then perhaps Glock can do the same and possibly generate even more customers.

    In conclusion, I do not feel that my suggestions and examples are radical. I am not suggesting that Glock starts churning out rifles or shotguns, or even pistol caliber carbines. Instead, I am only proposing that Glock continues to do what it does (produce simple, reliable, and rugged pistols), but expand its variations (optics cuts, colors, manual safeties as examples) to generate wider appeal.

    Lastly, I assume that your comment about saving pennies and making Gaston an offer he can’t refuse was an attempt at humor. Furthermore, I assume that you weren’t suggesting that only the owner of a company is in a position to affect change… consumers have the ability through contact with companies, postings of forums, and social media to register a demand signal and possibly shape a company’s offerings and strategies. Not that it was my intent, but perhaps this thread will catch the eye of someone influential at Glock. Regardless, it is still a healthy discussion on what companies can do and offer its customers and potential customers.
     
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  16. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    I agree with this.

    15 years ago, maybe not so many great competitors but today, you have a ton of choices so no real need to complain.

    Personally, I appreciate much of the interoperability between the different versions, models and calibers of Glock. Sharing holsters, magazines, even internals is a real selling point for me.

    They sell every gun they make, and their customer service is outstanding. If you bought a G17 15 years ago and you crack the frame or slide and send it in, they would replace it (assuming you didn’t modify it. You have a dozen Glocks and pull up to their factory in Smyrna and ask to have your guns inspected, they will tell you to go out for lunch and come back in a few hours. Your guns will be returned with new internals and cleaned, at a cost of zero $’s.
     
  17. MAKster

    MAKster Member

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    I think most of this lack of innovation is a result of Gaston Glock. Everything I have ever read about him portrays a very rigid, stubborn person who thinks his original creation is best and no need to change anything. Their marketing literally is based on Glock perfection! I think an employee suggesting that Glock needs to develop a new product is the fastest way to get fired. I predict that once Gaston passes away Glock will start introducing all kinds of new products. The same thing happened after Bill Ruger died.
     
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  18. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    There must be dozens of other companies making pistols....
     
  19. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    It doesn't make much difference if it's a normal or SAFE action trigger, for duty/tactical/hunting carry, too light a trigger is an issue.

    I agree that Glock could do a better job with innovation, and I'll bring up an issue: Since the invention of the FCU by SIG, a lot of Mil/LEO contracts specify it. For the most part tho, instead of meeting the new requirement with their version, they attempt legal end runs to delay or void the contract. Some might say that alls fair in love and contract lawfare. On the other hand, for Glock to be the main gamechanger in handgun design in the 1945 - to 2000 era, you'd think they would have jumped in with both feet on FCU's. It's as if they knew the train was coming into the station and just watched it pass by, waiting for one with older cars where they could smoke. Currently they have the Canadian contract on delay crying its written exclusively for SIG because is requires an FCU. Didn't that become apparent in 2017? It hasn't changed yet.

    It's become apparent they are coasting for now, much like Colt when they didn't pursue an automatic pistol - a completely NEW design instead of rehashing the 1911. They have their problems too - owning the Browning patents on it is now a hobble on their business, something Browning proved to them when he designed around them and created the Hipower, which is the real Browning he left as his heritage. Browning had learned from his mistakes and moved on.

    Oh, and btw, is Ruger still billboarding their guns with the safety and manual instructions? It's like they want to keep that one artifact "from the days."
     
  20. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    I like Glocks the way they are. Sure there's room for improvement. But I can usually clean the triggers up real nice.

    As for models, I think they're concentrating on what sells right now, and works well enough to maintain their name.

    Oh, and those "others", are just copies. Dusty copies, at my LGS that sells a Glock every day.

    If you're hungry for innovation, try CZ, Dan Wesson, Cheely, Stacato, Atlas, Luago Arms, and Phoenix Redhill.

    Glocks should be Glocks.
     
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  21. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    Ruger isn’t slapping them on the sides of the barrels or frames, they’re putting it underneath the barrel or in visible, but less conspicuous, places.

    Older New Model .41 Mag. and a newer New Model .44 Spl.:

    80D0F3E4-78FB-4AB9-B80E-C58FDF17BB38.jpeg

    A Mk II .22 and a .45 SR 1911:

    0208A84E-5666-4D4C-A76F-D56996A5EDC9.jpeg


    The lawyer billboard on their guns are still ugly, but not as obvious or profile-dampening as the old way with it written all over the sides of the barrels. :barf:

    Stay safe.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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  22. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    The primary difference between the two, besides striker vs hammer, is most striker-fired guns have a firing pin block. The firing pin block is deactivated as you pull the trigger allowing the striker to move forward. A caveat is series 80 1911s. Those also have a firing pin block.

    As far as Glocks go, they aren't my thing. I would have to spend more money than the Glock itself to make me like it or to even match the qualities I like in my other handguns.
     
  23. BeornLS

    BeornLS Member

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    IMHO, Glocks are definitely the 'tools' of the gun world, nothing fancy and they get the job done nicely. I've always said when I want to have fun shooting at the range, I'll reach for blued steel and walnut, be it revolvers, 1911s, fancy HK's, high end Sigs, etc...you get my drift. But if I need a firearm because I NEED a firearm, I'll reach for a Glock.
     
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  24. luzyfuerza

    luzyfuerza Member

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    @giggitygiggity , I hope that the good people at Glock read the myriad product suggestions contained in your posts. I'd be a bit surprised if anything you wrote is news to them. This line certainly won't be novel:

    Give Gaston some credit; maybe he really does understand what his customers value!

    And what they don't.
     
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  25. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    I believe the post that this quote is referencing is pointing out that Glock tend to not acknowledge they design defects by issuing a recall, but will institute an "upgrade" to address the shortcoming of the design. It is one of the reason that while Glocks are currently in their 5th Gen, the magazines are well into double digit generations.

    Their first generation guns had more issues than the magazines not dropping free (they were originally design not to). The one that is usually less known (covered up) was the rapid wear of the slide at the slide stop notch. It came to light when slides stopped locking back on empty magazines
     
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