Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by giggitygiggity, Oct 22, 2021.
If people want the Gucci on their guns with enough options that make everyone feel like they are special from one another buy a different brand there is plenty of Glock clones out there with options aplenty at prices that are often times lower.
I have a Gen 1 Model 17 that I gave to my Dad as a fishing sidearm, I’ll look it over when I see it again to look forward that issue.
Terosean was right in pointing out Glock has repeatedly issued new generation guns as they address performance or ergonomic issues over time. That is certainly something Glock has done over the years, but in the grand scheme of things the company really hasn’t strayed too far from its roots or original designs.
I will say loudly that the words “Glock Perfection” as a marketing slogan is certainly ridiculous, as “Perfection” wasn’t attained with the repeated Glock design go-rounds, and, in all honesty, probably never will be. I genuinely think that the sheer arrogance of “Glock Perfection” alone increases the hate factor by non-users 50% over something like “Glock Performance”… but that’s just an opinion.
Generational design improvement and updates aside, I was merely comparing the insinuation of a “recall” by Glock in teroseans post, which by common business definitions involve a mandated or voluntary take back to fix or replace something that during expected use can lead to consumer injury or death because of a design or manufacturing flaw. I do not recall Glock or H&K ever issuing one of those for a reason like that, unlike Ford, Toyota, Volvo, Chevy, etc.
My comment had nothing to do with generational changes. It was more about the little parts that are quietly upgraded and changed because of real issues with the guns.
You never will, even when entire police departments recall a Glock. (17M) Not a peep from Glock.
Some people really need to lighten up.
Somehow Sigs “Never Settle” and HK’s No Compromise slogans don’t get similar hate, even though they pretty much imply the same thing (the other guy ain’t no good!).
It’s just another form of group think and excuse to complain about a brand people don’t like.
The “grip angle” thing always gets me (it’s the palm swell, not the angle) as I think many if not most folks complaining about it never have taken the time to actually learn it and might change their tune if they put the time in. I know I was one of them, converted from a “hater” to enthusiast by simply taking the time to learn the gun. Applied to the trigger too. I used to be a big trigger snob until I finally realized the issue was between my ears and simply putting in the time makes just about any trigger work just fine.
On the flip side, as has been noted, there is such a wide and wonderful selection out there that folks don’t NEED to put the time in to learn, they can just find a platform that works better for them.
Send it off to a machine shop costs about the same. MOS is probably the worst system out there. (Yes I do own one) Plus all these years later the screws are still incorrect for Trijicon.
There is a lot more arrogance in claiming "Perfection" than there is to avoiding "Settle" or "Compromise". The first is a claim of an existing state, while the latter two offer choice.
I'm not a hater as I've owned several over the years (currently down to three)...it makes sense to teach with the same platform that clients prefer. I'm just aware of the platforms shortcomings and realize that the company will never admit them i.e., WML failure, BTF
That's how I got my two Glocks. Don't think I'd have bought one otherwise.
I'm not giving up my P226 for a Glock anytime soon at work. Nor my P229 SAS EDC
Some people obsessively create their own world where glock has victimized them. From the hand grip, "it just doesn't fit my hand" to "why do people upgrade every single part?, it must not be so perfect then huh?" lol
I had a friend who loved to trash my glocks and call it tupperware for over 20 years and praised his P229r as if it was created by the Gods. One visit, he told me not to laugh, and behold, he now has a Glock 23 as his carry gun. lol.
I started with glock, then a couple years later I tried out sig, then hk, thinking i was missing out on some big picture concept that you can only comprehend by jumping in with both feet. But in the end, after spending nearly double the money on several sigs and hks, I just stick with glocks for SD.
The "trigger safety" is a drop safety and they even say that on their website. They also make a token statement that it prevents the trigger from actuating under any pressure that "isn't a direct firing pull", which is horse pucky. I can apply a pressure that "isn't a direct firing pull" to their trigger and get it to actuate...all that pressure has to do is depress the lever in the process. I can apply lateral pressure to any number of other triggers and not have them actuate. Anything which enters the trigger guard area has the potential to actuate their trigger...just like any other trigger design.
"The trigger safety is designed to prevent the pistol from firing if it’s dropped or if the trigger is subjected to any pressure that isn’t a direct firing pull."
Can you talk about a real world situation where this has affected you? Can you point to any in the media where this has been the reason for some tragedy?
I've only seen self inflicted tragedies that arose from the Safety features of some guns and the people who insist on teaching unsafe methods of carry.
Instructors want to teach in some cases it is better to have a magazine with no round in the chamber. People are still peddling that garbage and it gets people killed. I watched a store owner not too long ago get shot to death in front of his kid cause he pulled his gun on an armed robber and pulled the trigger and nothing happened... so while fumbling the robber just raised his gun and shot him.
Please tell me what is more simpler than drawing your pistol and pulling the trigger? To date, supposed true 1911 to the core fans are still drawing their pistols and shooting themselves in the leg. Ever read a witness statement where they explain how the gun was defective cause when they kept trying to pull the trigger and it wouldn't budge?... read that on many sigs as well as shotguns. NDs are always traced back to the person doing something incorrectly. I have never read that a glock went off cause of a broom handle or a screwdriver. Even Dancing FBI Guy in CO didn't have an ND when his gun flew off while doing a backflip.... that is until he reached down and pulled that trigger when he picked it up.
I've always thought the description of the 3 safeties in the trigger was a stretch, but other than people pulling their triggers as the cause for NDs, I'm not sure there are any other causes... if so, I'd like to know of them.
Yeah, I was that friend of yours for a while myself.
I have and like lots of other options, love my 1911s or HKs for range or woods work, I’ve owned most of the other polymer striker guns, heck I bought a Wilson EDC X9 to be my ultimate carry gun (light, right size, SAO, wonderful trigger) yet after all that, I just shoot my Glock 19 as well or better and it’s easier to carry.
I try not to “hate” on other brands/guns and don’t we what folk get from the process. Some kind of gratification I guess.
Closest I get is with the M&P and FN 509 because I don’t particularity care for the feel of the hinged trigger, but I shoot the S&Ws fine and certainly don’t feel the need to complain about them not making a proper trigger (though I guess they figured it out with the Shield+) all over the internet. I just choose an option that fits my preferences better
As for Glocks as a product I find nothing much to take issue with. When I chose my first polymer SD pistol I gave them a shot, but ultimately went with a Smith. Well before I stepped into the store my plan was to own a 92FS, which came in a distant 3rd once the dust settled.
Call it hatred if you will, but plenty of people choose other brands with no vitriol and are as confident in their choice as Glock owners are with theirs.
I'm not a Glock guy, but this seemed unlikely to me, so I looked it up.
Yeah, they just don’t make the 30 and 21 in MOS yet.
Im betting when the Gen 5 45s come out there’ll be MOS versions.
None of this has anything to do with what the Glock safety is or is not, which is the only thing I posted about.
If you wish to discuss these aspects as well, I'm more than willing. However, be advised that I don't discuss this particular aspect with respect to issues involving negligent discharges, because you and I know negligent discharges will occur regardless.
And before anybody cares to take up the issue of whether or not I own a Glock...I do not. And I freely admit the reason I won't get one has absolutely nothing to do with their quality or other similar aspects. They are, by any measure, a quality firearm with an outstanding history in support of this. I just think they're ugly as sin and with so many other quality choices on the market, I see no reason to own an ugly gun.
Remember that old song.....If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life. Never make a pretty woman your wife.......
No... we're good. I just thought that there was more to it.
And I don't know of any semi autos that aren't butt ugly. So I don't even see how other's look any better than a glock. Revolvers catch my eye... that's about it.
Thanks! I forgot about the G41… That is the only mistake I’ll make this month. Haha.
Nah...nothing more to it. I'm a engineer, so I look at a lot of these things from an engineering viewpoint.
Comparisons between guns and calibers are rife with opinions, and that's great. Performance characteristics, however, can't be equitably discussed unless you hold some variables to be constant between your examples. Like comparing terminal ballistics between different calibers...to many differences, like different diameters, different velocities, different bullet masses, different bullet designs, etc. It's apples and oranges when you have that many variables which aren't the same between bullets.
You and I also seem to agree that aesthetics are a personally important characteristic! I find some revolvers to be drop-dead gorgeous! (Like my Colt SAA.)
As for the OP...I'm definitely with him on a lot of his Glock frustrations. They seem to have little, if any, desire to actually make any aesthetic alterations from generation to generation. Nor do they seem to offer very many options that some would find appealing, like a production manual safety as one example.
Glock certainly has no lack of followers, so I guess there's something to be said for sticking to the basics and not going overboard with options.
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