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Glock Guide Rods??

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Texas Gunman, Sep 25, 2005.

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  1. Texas Gunman

    Texas Gunman Member

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    I've been reading up post & replies from fellow Glock owners about captive & none captive guide rods.
    Half the Glock owners say the standard factory plastic captive guide rods are the best and most reliable.
    Others say that they havent had any problems using a SS none captive guide rod in their Glocks.
    Im bout sure both will work just fine, but have mixed thoughts on this matter of plastic guide rod and SS guide rods.
    To me, SS will be easier to changed out spring weight etc,want chip or melt and more consistent recoil and lock up by using SS guide rod.

    Just wondering why Glock switched to plastic captive guide rods?
    No doubt their more cost effective and save money,like many gun makers now days looking for cheaper ways to produce & compete with one another.

    Also, I just purchased a SS guide rod and a couple ISMI #17 flat Wire recoil springs from topglock.com.

    I already have a few captive guide rod for glock, guess I'll keep them for spares or in case this SS none captive proves unreliable.

    Has anyone here have any input, much appreciated.

    TG
     
  2. Braden

    Braden Member

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    $$$

    While I think the factory plastic rods will work fine, there HAVE been cases where they've broken. For that reason, and that reason alone, I bought a SS Aro-Tek non-captured guide rod from Lone Wolf along with a 22# Wolff recoil spring (which I'll probably change to a 20# at some point).

    To me, the biggest advantage of a non-captured rod is that you can clean it a lot easier. Being able to change springs easier is a bonus, but I don't really change out my springs all that often.
     
  3. Texas Gunman

    Texas Gunman Member

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    Thanks for your reply, I have a Glock 17, so not knowing what weight to go with, I'd chosen the #17 spring, it is the standard weight for Glock 17s.

    I may look into a heavier spring, when using +P ammunition.

    Will this #17 spring handle +P ammo?

    TG
     
  4. Graystar

    Graystar Member

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    What in the world would cause a guide rod to break??? They don't do anything...they just stay in one place, the spring compresses along it and puts a tiny bit of lateral pressure on it...that's about it. A broken Glock guide rod would have had to undergo some serious trauma.

    As for changing it out...
    The rod doesn’t affect recoil.
    The rod doesn’t affect lockup.
    The rod isn’t going the melt.

    But…change it you want to. This is America...do as you like! :)
     
  5. kimbermaniac

    kimbermaniac Member

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    There is very little stress on the rod itself,as the above poster pointed out.It is more cost effective to use the plastic/polymer rod,so that is why Glock probably uses that for it's rods and factory standard sights $$$$$$.I do prefer metal rods myself,so I normally purchase them aftermarket.It really isn't neccessary,but it provides more need for me than for the gun.
     
  6. Texas Gunman

    Texas Gunman Member

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    I've read where others who have had the factory guide rod to break,also read where a guy fired a x amount of rounds in a matter of minutes and the guide rod melted.
    Also, that the factory plastic guide rods do flex during recoil,this is based on what I've read.(Im still new to Glocks) :confused:

    But, they do work for your average shooter that doesnt put that many rounds down range,than again I've heard where people have put thousands of rounds down range using their glock plastic guide rods.

    Here a pix of one, this is what get my attention,dont like things that break or melt.
    [​IMG]

    TG
     
  7. Graystar

    Graystar Member

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    The rods don't flex. The lateral force required to flex a Glock guide rod is much greater than the lateral pressure exerted by the spring.

    If you have an older Glock with an uncaptured spring, you can take the spring, compress it along something really thin (like a wooden skewer) and then see how much force it takes to move the spring laterally. It doesn’t take much. Then take the Glock guide rod and try to flex it. It’s stronger than it looks. The lateral pressure that the spring provides is only a fraction of the pressure needed to flex the rod.

    As for melting...well, the Glock 18 also uses a polymer guide rod. I don’t think they would do that unless it didn’t stand up to the heat and abuse of full-auto operation.
     
  8. Sactown

    Sactown Member

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    I'm patiently waiting for my tungsten guide rod. I had no other project going on so I'm making my own G34 race gun.
     
  9. Braden

    Braden Member

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    For the G17, a 17 pound spring is just fine, in my opinion, even for +P ammo. The good thing is that springs are cheap, so if you want to experiment with heavier springs at the range then it's easy to do. I went with a heavier spring because I'm shooting very hot .40 S&W rounds.

    I would NOT carry with a heavier spring until you've proven that it works without fail for at least a couple hundred rounds of whatever your carry ammo is.

    Regarding the breaking of plastic rods, in every case that I've heard of where it happened it was the exact same break shown above. Also, in every case that I've heard of, the gun kept shooting and the shooter typically didn't discover the break until they were cleaning the gun later. So, even if one DOES break (which isn't very likely), chances are it will still cycle just fine.
     
  10. goalie

    goalie Member

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    A stainless steel non-captured guide rod and standard strength Wolff spring from Brownells has run for over 4k rounds in my G17 without a hiccup.
     
  11. Tim3256

    Tim3256 Member

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    Glock did not switch to the polymer guiderod, that is the original design.

    Broken guiderods are almost invariably the result of improper installation (wrong lug on barrel)

    Your stock guiderod will NOT melt. It is used in the G18 (full auto), it is effectively cooled every time the slide cycles. If it will hold up to the G18, you're OK. Information to the contrary cannot be verified; it's always "I heard...", "I know a guy...", "My RO says...." Its internet BS.

    The "lateral strength" of the guiderod is a non-issue. The there is not enough room inside the slide to allow for the amount of lateral distortion required to cause structural failure. The guiderod is more than adequate for the intended task; it is a guiderod, that's all it does.

    For standard loads, the stock 17# spring is the best and most reliable choice, especially for CCW, and be careful with all aftermarket springs (spring inner diameters are crucial). Keep it stock, friend. As to tungsten and titanium rods, they cost alot more, and add nothing (unless you sell them)...a solution looking for a problem. SS is okay (and cheap) if you want to change out springs alot for racing, I guess.

    TV
     
  12. Braden

    Braden Member

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    Not to be disagreeable, but the original Glock 17 model came with a steel guide rod. At some point they switched to the plastic guide rods. I don't know when that was because I never cared enough to research it, but it is well documented that the original Glocks came with steel rods. :)

    But, then again, I DID read that on the internet. ;)

    Truthfully, I go back and forth on the guide rod issue. One day I'll think it's better to go stainless and the next I'll decide it's better just to leave it stock. The MAIN reason I changed mine was because I shoot a lot of Double Tap ammo. It's some pretty hot stuff and I thought a heavier spring might help reduce recoil (it didn't) and protect the gun from being beaten up (who knows).
     
  13. Rockstar

    Rockstar member

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    I'm one of those guys who uses steel guide rods in his Glocks. I'm using several brands; they all seem to work well. The only aftermarket guide rod that I've heard bad things about is the Glockmeister captured stainless. Wolff guide rods are steel, but not stainless.
     
  14. Texas Gunman

    Texas Gunman Member

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    I thought the first ones was steel,but have got mixed answers, those who say plastic & ones who say their steel,but the first ones was plastic.

    Here is the reply that I just got from Glock Faq.com

     
  15. Braden

    Braden Member

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    I guess that just proves that you can't believe everything you read on the internet. ;) I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing that up. :)
     
  16. medmo

    medmo Member

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    I don't think sticking aftermarket parts in a stock gun is a great idea if you are looking for self defense reliability. I think that most people swap out the recoil spring and guide because they don't like the idea of a plastic guide rod. I find it confusing that some people are uncomfortable with plastic parts on a plastic gun. If you have reliability problems the first step in trouble shooting is reinstalling the factory parts and retesting.
     
  17. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

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    I got a Glock 20 this summer. I plan on doing a lot of stuff to it but a new guide rod is pretty low on the list. I don't lose any more sleep over the fact that my gun has a plastic guide rod than I do knowing it has a plastic frame. It works, I use it. When I have money to dink around with things, I will. I plan to eventually make it into a longslide model that are rumored to exist over on GlockTalk. But until then, if I wanted to fiddle with my pistol to get it to shoot out of the box, I would have bought a 1911 ;)
     
  18. HSMITH

    HSMITH Member

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    I agree with Tim3256, great post Tim.
     
  19. Graystar

    Graystar Member

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    I agree that it's a non-issue, but I believe that the concern is not about failure, but of the spring rubbing against the frame or barrel, causing problems with slide return. But it doesn't so...
     
  20. TheEgg

    TheEgg Member

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    I carry a G19.

    It works perfectly. 100% reliable.

    Why would I start swapping out parts that work 100%?

    Leave well enough alone -- if you want to mess around with your target guns (thats what I do with my 1911's) fine, but don't mess up your carry piece. :D

    Not that I really think that just putting a steel guide-rod in is going to make much difference.
     
  21. PO2Hammer

    PO2Hammer Member

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    I had an old first Gen G-17 that had an uncaptured polymer guide rod. May have been an intermediate model.
    I like uncaptured tungsten guide rods myself.
    On a G-34 I used to have, I could only get reliable function with wimpy 115 practice ammo by going to a 15 pound recoil spring. The stock spring was just too stiff to allow proper function. The 15 pound spring made it 100% reliable.
    On my Glock 20, I use a 20 pound spring and tungsten rod to reduce recoil. It has worked perfectly for many thousands of rounds.
    I have an extended, uncaptured tungsten rod on order for my 17L to add weight in the muzzle and to use heavier springs for +p ammo.
    I've never had a failure with tungsten rods, I've had a few with the stock rods.
    The slide seems to move more smoothly and recoil gets tamed a little, especially shooting 10mm.
    Just because the plastic one is a 'stock' part, doesn't mean it's the best.
    Do you think the crappy plastic sights are the best just because they came with the pistol?
    They came with the pistol because the were the cheapest usable part Glock could find.
     
  22. TheEgg

    TheEgg Member

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    Nope, that is the first thing I replace - I like Meps, myself. :D

    But they really don't impact the guns FUNCTION (in the sense that it fires and cycles). Messing with internal parts might. Like I said, I don't think you are going to seriously mess up your gun just by replacing the guide rod, but if it works as is, why bother? Most Glocks work just fine with the stock parts.

    I can't count how many times I have been asked by people to check out their guns because they don't work right. I am not a gunsmith, and what I don't know about guns would fill a library -- but you know what? A large number of times, I have been able to return a gun to excellent function by simply pulling out all the aftermarket parts, and replacing with stock. This especially includes springs that were replaced because for some reason they believe that someone on the Internet knows more about springs in a Glock or Ruger or Smith than Glock or Ruger or Smith.

    My only point is, if I am going to be using a gun for serious purposes, I am VERY CAREFUL about using aftermarket parts that might impact function.
     
  23. PO2Hammer

    PO2Hammer Member

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    Agreed.
    On my Glock 20, I trust the tungsten guide rod and 20 pound spring because it has proven itself with a wide range of ammo and shooting styles (IDPA) and many, many rounds.
    My 17L has been flawless with the stock rod and it will be a long time before I would trust my life to a tungsten rod, since my 17L is my primary home defense gun. The tungsten rod will have to prove itself.
    Personaly, I think spring weight is far more critical to reliability. I use tungsten just to reduce recoil.
    I like to use the strongest recoil spring spring that will cycle the gun 100% while shooting one handed, weak handed etc...
    Too weak of a spring and the forward slide stroke might not strip a cartridge and feed it cleanly.
    Too heavy and it my not eject properly.
     
  24. Rockstar

    Rockstar member

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    Glocks, like most mass-produced machines, are made to accommodate the unwashed masses. I took a bath a few years back. :evil:
     
  25. Inner Monkey

    Inner Monkey Member

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    For what it is worth I have over 10,000 rounds of Double Tap full pressure 10mm through my G20 with the standard plastic guide rod & I have never had a problem. My training partner shoots a G32 .357 SIG & he has close to 100,000 on one of his G32’s. Again not problems with the stock plastic guide rod.
     
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