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Glock Kaboom Alternatives

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by GunMac, Jan 28, 2008.

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  1. AKElroy

    AKElroy Member

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    CHIEFTAIN---Guilty as charged with regard to sarcasm, and you are correct that I am not a prolific shooter by your standards. I am a collector, a 2nd amendment activist, I hold a CCL and carry every day. I cannot be alone in this forum to admit I only get to the range maybe 8 to 10 times a year (to stay proficient with my CCW's), and I may shoot 200 rounds per trip. I own 40+ assorted handguns and long guns, and I read everything I can. I value your opinion if not your approach. It is always curious to see some views so consuming that they become obsessive. If Glocks were as freaquently dangerous as you report, so prone to failure, then where is my recall notice? Where is my class action enrollement request? My Glock is not perfect (as I have listed in other posts), but it has yet to blow my arm off.
     
  2. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    Well...................
    X2
     

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  3. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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  4. possum

    possum Member

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    i have a glock 23, i don't worry about kabooms, but better yet, i have an xd so i know i am good.
     
  5. chieftain

    chieftain Member

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    For the exact same reason the 40’s would on rare occasion KB. Not enough metal mass. The 40 was over bored from the 9mm, the 45 was over bored from the 10mm(interestingly enough a 40 caliber too).

    I believe the reason there was less problems with the 45 vs. the 40 was that the 45 is a very low pressure round vs. the 40 S&W. I refer back to Post #78, again.

    The problem was when a 40 or 45acp Glock, both which did not have as much metal mass as the calibers that spawned them in the Glock line, got out of the factory with a out a in spec Tennifer process, making them either softer or more brittle, and an in spec but strong factory round all came together. Not often, but it happened enough to create the problem THAT DID EXIST.

    That is why it didn’t happen to the 9mm or 10mm. Even if the Tennifer process had been out of spec, there was enough metal mass to keep them together.

    What is the hard part? It was a rare problem that vexed the 40 and 45acp Glocks, on rare occasion. Like Glock, get a 9mm or 10mm version. (I guess you could include the 357SIG, or 45 GAP too.)

    Only the folks who think it didn’t happen or think it happened to every gun or a lot of them could possibly be obsessive about the issue. Reason doesn’t allow oppressiveness when dealing with fact.

    AGAIN I refer back to your apparent reading and or comprehension problem. No where do I or anyone who was involved with this problem stated or inferred that it was frequent. I have repeatedly stated it was rare or occasional at worse. Probably why many folks get so “obsessive” about trying to ridicule those of us that have studied the problem. I guess it is a desperate need for justification on your/their part.

    Neither have any of mine, what is your point? How does that impact the fact that Glock’s in the 40 or 45acp models did have rare occasions of KB’s beyond what other manufacturers and professional users of firearms found normal?

    As to the exploded XD where only photo's are shown. Please show the photo of the box of ammo that MAY have caused this. What caliber, manufacturer, lot number, bullet weight, construction, and any other pertinent information. Otherwise it is just another gun probably blown up by a lousy reload.

    SIGH!

    Go figure.

    Fred
     
  6. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    You just proved my point. Many of the heard from a friend about a cousins buddys glock blowing up we dont have the luxury of any of the details or documentation. I would guess that for every 10 glock kBs reported maybe 1 to 3 tops were actual flaws with the guns. I believe in the portland case with the exploding g21s, when the final analysis came up it was ruled that ammo was at fault not the guns. At least two different guns succumbed to the same ammo, this caused tons of panic and rumors.

    Bottom line is glocks are safe to shoot. With the older 40s, 45s it doesnt hurt to check the barrel and see how much is exposed on the case. I dont believe glock has owned up to increasing the support, but they have. You can plainly see the difference in the early .40 barrels and the later ones.
     
  7. Sir Aardvark

    Sir Aardvark Member

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    I really feel the love in these Glock threads...


    Just to add fuel to the fire -

    How about Glock's infamous recall.. I mean "upgrade"... that it has offered to replace defective frames?
     
  8. Wesson Smith

    Wesson Smith Member

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    Hmmm. I have 5 Glocks going all the way back to a pre-ban 17. Got em in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45. Thousands of (factory) rounds through each, and not as much as a hiccup.
     
  9. AKElroy

    AKElroy Member

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    The conversation should not be confrontational, and anyone having evidence of a potential danger is my friend for pointing out their concerns. I do not handload, I will not run cast bullets in my Glocks (or any hex-rifled handgun)for the very reasons listed. As a result of these posts, I am sitting here looking at the chamber support my g27 provides; the only area not fully supported is a 1-1.5mm directly above the feed ramp. Is this the area of failure you are referring to?
     
  10. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    Thats it. Dont waste your time, go shoot your gun and enjoy it.
     
  11. 10-Ring

    10-Ring Member

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    I have more than 3X the number of rounds through my 19 -- w/ assorted ammo from defensive rounds to practice to home made loads & I'm confident this gun & its many cousins out there are fine guns -- rest easy, your 34 is fine!
     
  12. jocko

    jocko Member

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    nice photos of the KB springer, BUT do we really know the actual cause of it. I just cannot vision a factory load ever doing this +P to ++++P.

    These guns are not tanks, oops forgot tanks go KB to..
     
  13. chieftain

    chieftain Member

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    You are absolutely right.

    If the problem with the Glock 40's and 45acp's was the unsupported chamber, we would have had a whole lot more KB's than we in fact had. Just a very few.

    That is why it was so difficult to ascertain what happened. It was "intermittent". Anyone that must repair anything of consequence knows intermittent problems are often the devils own work to figure out.

    That is what happened with the Glock's. It was like in many things a group of conditions that had to be met before there was a risk of a KB. The 2 truly random problems were the QC or quality of the Tennifer process in a small number of guns AND the occasional rather hot, but in spec factory round come together. The Tennifer process Making the chambers either to brittle or to soft. I believe brittle, but that is my opinion. And the hot side of the in spec range of some ammo. The Scientists and engineers we had do this, (and I love to remind everyone that several were in fact rocket scientists working at Cape Canaveral) We sent the barrel to a Metallurgy lab on our own nickle.

    With that report, which I no longer have a copy of, that was the conclusion we came to. That is why it is rather rare, and there were so few. More than other guns, but not a serious issue with most Glock 40 and 45acp shooters either.

    My personal response was to sell my 3 45acp Glocks, and only keep 9mm. It was at that time, about 15 years ago that I came to the conclusion to only carry fighting guns in the caliber they were designed for.

    If I want 9mm I preferred SIG's, (220, 225, 226 and 228) but I would be almost as happy with any of my present Glock's 17,19,26,34. (mainly because of egonomics) But in 9mm you have a rather vast choice of firearms. If I carry a 1911 or want to shoot 45 acp that is what I use, a 1911 5" Government type. Tried a SIG 220, but found it to not be as reliable in 45acp than in the caliber it was originally designed in, 9mm. Imagine that.

    I believe the gun I am most impressed with in 40 cal today is the S&W M&P. It may be the first handgun built from scratch to be a 40, although the SIG 229 is close behind.

    Basically what I am saying choose the caliber your platform/gun of choice was designed for. Is it possible to have a reliable firearm in a caliber other than the original design, sure. But I have never heard of any weapon designed in one caliber and equally as reliable in another. In most cases it is simple engineering. That is the case with Glock's too.

    IN the end, it is more common sense than genius. Does that make 40 or 45acp Glock's dangerous, nope, does it mean they are inferior guns, nope. It's just if you want THE most reliable Glock get a 17. The 40's and 45acp's have had and in some other ways continue to have some issues. That is all.

    ALL GUNS HAVE ISSUES, all of them. Some have more than others. Just understand what the issues are with the gun you select and use. Particularly a weapon you may have to trust you and your loved ones lives to one day. That's it.

    Many folks can blissfully keep shooting what ever they have, and never be aware of the issues. Another person can run into those issues with the first box of cartridges run through the gun. With Glock's the good running guns are by a vast number the norm, not the exception.

    Of late, because of the arthritis in my trigger finger, I retro'd back to my original carry and fighting handgun, the 1911, in 45acp of course. Shortest trigger pull of any practical fighting weapon. But, and this I knew long before I returned to it, and that is it take a lot to set one up, and a lot more to keep them running. Luckily I know how, and can afford it and do it.

    Frankly most folks carrying 1911's would be better off with Glocks in 9mm, but try to tell them that. They are the same folks that wonder why their thunder blaster keeps needing new recoil springs, or how to adjust a sear spring etc... or wonder why their shorter than 5" 1911 doesn't work as well as the originally designed 5" models. Never heard a Glock shooter do or say that.

    Even my Glocks and SIG,s I change out the springs every 5000 rounds. In my 1911's, it is about every 1500 i.e.

    So that is where I am coming from. To the kool aide drinkers, it doesn't matter, they think I am insulting their best girl. Nope, just pointing out she has a birthmark or two. But of course to the true believer that is an insult.

    As for me I am done here.

    "None are so blind as those who choose not to see"

    Go figure.

    Fred
     
  14. viperstarbuck

    viperstarbuck Member

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    I trust the Glock everyday. I would not use reloads though, I mean even the instruction book says not too. with factory ammo... it simply works.
     
  15. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    Fred, I will disagree with your feeling that the 45 glocks cant withstand the caliber, thus shouldnt be trusted. The exact same frame is used for the 10mm, surely its not that. As for barrel thickness problems, I'm not sold that they exist. There are an awful lot of guys that shoot full power loads and hardball, which usually has some pop to it exclusively. There were definately problems early on in the .40 game, but that was also a rush to get a gun out before the competitor. The .45s have more than proved themselves.
     
  16. sohcgt2

    sohcgt2 Member

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    I witnessed first hand Glock Kaboom on the range one day. A friend of mine (former Glock technician) and I were sharing a lane at a local indoor firing range at lunch time and I was firing white box Winchester in my G22. My friend was shooting Georgia Arms reloads through his G21. After several magazines his G21 went boom. It destroyed the magazine and blew it out of the frame. All activity on the range stopped because people wanted to see what made the noise. It sounded like a 12 guage shotgun and my friend said it felt like a 12 guage shotgun. His hand was in pain for a couple of days due to the shock. A close inspection of the gun revealed no damage except to the magazine that had been in use at the time. The cause for the incident was presumed to be a reload with a double powder charge. Since the incident the gun has fired several thousand rounds and has found a new home between my 1911 and my g22. Nothing makes you feel as fresh as combat tupperware...Glock perfection. To answer those who might say I'm biased without reason I will say I also own handguns made by Springfield Armory, Walther, Smith & Wesson, Colt, And Ruger, but it is the Glocks that I trust for carry.
     
  17. Choclabman

    Choclabman Member

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