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Glock or HiPoint?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by RichieV, Jan 21, 2009.

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  1. RichieV

    RichieV Member

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    First off, hello again...long time lurker, occasional poster. I've always appreciated the information and insight I've gained from contributors to this site.

    Anyway, as for the question I've posted. Suppose someone comes to you for a recommendation as to what handgun to purchase.

    This person has very limited knowledge of firearms, but appreciates their usefulness and is interested in one for the purposes of self-protection as well as the protection of loved ones. Also, this person has limited funds and something in the price range of a new Glock with a few incidentals (holster, practice ammo, etc.) represents the extent to which he or she can afford to spend.

    Would you recommend the purchase of that Glock, OR, instead would you recommend that he or she gets a Hi-Point and use the rest of that unspent money on a defensive handgun course that would train that person to effectively fight with the new handgun?

    Now the reason I say Hi-Point is because it's one of those guns where gun enthusiasts go "Ewwww...Hi-Point? I would never buy that POS!", but by most accounts here on this site and elsewhere, it's a reliable firearm that works when you need it and sends bullets where you want them to go.

    So: Glock with no training, or Hi-Point *with* training?

    I say Hi-Point with training!

    I used to be one of those guys who, for years, would get this shiny new gun and that shiny new gun as funds allow, but never wanted to take the training. Training is expensive! Why spend the money on training when I can get another toy to play with? And with my new toys, I'd go to the range and try to double tap COM at seven yards, or see if I could put all my rounds in a full size silhouette at 25 yards, and, after accomplishing all of that, I'd be completely satisfied that I knew how to shoot a gun and shoot it well.

    Eventually, after seeing something on TV about Gunsite or Thunder Ranch, I decided that training wouldn't be a bad idea after all, and signed up for a handgun course (at Tactical Response, fwiw...definitely recommended). Wow, what an eye opener! I knew I could handle a gun safely. I knew I could aim a gun and put a bullet in a target. But I never knew how to *fight* with a gun.

    Before, I thought that simply because I had guns at my disposal and could shoot them accurately, I could sufficiently defend myself if I had to. While having a gun is better than no gun at all, the knowledge of how to fight with a gun greatly increases your chances of survivability.

    When a friend asked me for a recommendation for a handgun for defensive purposes, I thought to myself that I could recommend something, but will he know how to use it? Will he be lulled, as I did, into thinking that owning a gun and practicing a little bit will be enough to suit his purposes of effectively defending his life and the lives of his family? If he takes a decent class, then he’ll be much better off then if he get just the gun alone.

    So whenever I'm asked for a recommendation as to which gun to buy, if it's for self-defense, I always strongly recommend that whatever they get, make sure to take training! Because the most effective weapon is not what's in your hand, it's what's in your head.

    Anyway, any comments would be appreciated. Sorry for the long post!

    --Richard
     
  2. tostada

    tostada Member

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    I would tend to agree with you, because Hi-Points are cheap and plenty reliable.

    But I would still say the guy should handle the guns before he gets them. If you've got a Hi-Point for him to shoot, that's great, but otherwise he's much more likely to be able to try out a Glock at any range.

    Other things I would consider is that he can get a used Glock that'll still be totally reliable, or he may be able to get someone to get him a LEO discount on a new Glock.

    Also, if he gets comfortable with the gun he might want to get his CCW, and a Hi-Point isn't gonna fit that bill. With that in mind, maybe he'd want to look at a compact Bersa Thunder .308 or 9mm. They're cheap, reliable, comfortable to shoot, and are small enough to carry.
     
  3. alaskagunner

    alaskagunner Member

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    I'd tell them to buy a USED Glock or something like it AND get some basic training. I saw a fellow shooting a Hi Point have it blow up in his hand the other day. :what:

    IMO, training is a must. They could even take training and possibly borrow/rent a gun. After getting comfortable with safe gun handling they may be more willing to fork over a little more cash for protection of self and loved ones.
     
  4. willmartin

    willmartin member

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    Wow tostada, a Bersa .308? I bet that packs quite a punch. Not good for a beginner's gun. ;-)
     
  5. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

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    Buy quality once. Go with the Glock and save up for further training. In the meantime, if you have any expertise with shooting handguns, take him to the range and teach him everything you can.
     
  6. woodfiend

    woodfiend Member

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    :eek: You almost just gave me a heart attack when you asked that. I didn't even think that such a question could be asked! Glocks are surely a gift from God!
     
  7. Dr. Fresh

    Dr. Fresh Member

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    If the person has little or no experience, I'd recommend something with more than just a trigger safety. XD maybe, or a used S&W auto or something.
     
  8. tostada

    tostada Member

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    "Wow tostada, a Bersa .308? I bet that packs quite a punch. Not good for a beginner's gun. ;-)"

    Oops! Yeah, I guess a .308 would be less concealable than a Hi-Point.




    "If the person has little or no experience, I'd recommend something with more than just a trigger safety. XD maybe, or a used S&W auto or something.""

    I don't believe people who say you should learn with a gun with an external hammer and/or a bunch of safeties before you use a Glock. To the contrary, I think you'd be better off not having the idea in the back of your mind that there's a safety on the gun so it's OK to leave your finger on the trigger.
     
  9. pith43

    pith43 Member

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    i'm not a huge Glock fan, but they are reliable, and accurate.

    FWIW, I would never let money be a factor in deciding on a gun for self defense. What's your life or your family's worth? Buy a good reliable gun, and then shoot the crap out of it. Having the confidence to know that your gun is going to shoot whenever you pull the trigger is priceless. Just my $.02
     
  10. GoodKat

    GoodKat Member

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    Bah, considering the condition of the world today, I expect "gifts from God" to come in the form of package bombs.
     
  11. Ringer

    Ringer Member

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    As far as guns go, Glocks are not that expensive. Since the gun is for protection I don't think it's worth the risk in saving a few hundred dollars.

    How about buy a used Glock, save a little more and get some amount of training as opposed to none?
     
  12. RichieV

    RichieV Member

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    I understand what you guys are saying, but the point wasn't actually about the Glock or the HiPoint, it was more about the value of training.

    So many people come here and ask for a first gun recommendation, or ask what caliber is better, or which gun is better.

    And these questions are asked, it seems, in trying to determine what is the be-all, end-all gun for the ages. Obviously it would be the Schlock 1912 (it's one higher than 1911, you see?) which fits conveniently in your pocket, in a caliber that has the terminal ballistics of a howitzer (with no overpenetration, mind you), the controllibility of an airsoft, holds 500 rounds, and goes for the low low price of $1.25.

    Of course such a gun does not exist. But how many of us have made a recommendation to a newbie without consideration of their ability to effectively use the weapon? Are you going to train them, and if so, do you have the capability to teach that person? Will that person take you seriously if you do try to teach them? Do you have the training skills to bring him to the level he wants to be?

    For myself, I know that *perhaps* I can teach certain people. Others, like my sister, even though she's intelligent and mature, will not be able to learn from me just because of our personalities and our interpersonal dynamic. In any case, I feel that a defensive gun course by people who know how to teach is the way to go as opposed to private lessons from me.

    So, I guess I'm saying that before all else, if you're looking to own a gun, get training! If you can afford it, get the gun you want to go along with the training. If you can't afford the gun you want, get the gun you don't want, but fits the same bill. If you can't afford that, just get the training. It will help you pick which gun you really want anyway. And if you're a loved one and you're trustworthy and you need a gun immediately, you can use one of mine until you can afford your own. After you're trained, of course!

    --Richard
     
  13. wyocarp

    wyocarp Member

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    I first have to realize that many people didn't possibly grow up shooting. If they are in that category, and possibly haven't had any or much exposure to firearms, then I think that some training should come either before the purchase or at least coincide with the purchase.

    As for quality. There is no substitute!
     
  14. AllAmerican

    AllAmerican Member

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    Have em buy the Glock and then hope they find it to be a brick and sell it to you cheap.

    Or have em get the Hi Point and sell it cheap because it is a brick.

    Had a C9 and it was fine but I got rid of it. Not a Glock fan....
     
  15. gmalfavon1

    gmalfavon1 Member

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    haha a Glock with no training that hi points gunna jam up when u need it most no matter how much training u got u ain't gonna get to put your skills to test
     
  16. bluetopper

    bluetopper Member

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    Both plastic/polymers. Both ugly as a shoebox full of a$$holes.

    Hi Point has the best warranty in the gun business. Tough decision.:D
     
  17. Big Bill

    Big Bill Member

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    This isn't a REAL question - is it?
     
  18. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    I think that if the person is capable of learning the 4 rules, they should be fine with a glock. If they arent capable of learning them, they need a whistle and a cell phone.

    Comparing a glock to a hi point is like comparing a corvette to a chevette(I know, crazy comparing a glock to a corvette).
     
  19. TCB in TN

    TCB in TN Member

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    Get a good used Charter Arms/Taurus etc 38spcl for $250ish, and learn to shoot it. While I am a big fan of good semi autos (not Glocks they are just to ugly :p ) I think the typical newbee is better served by the simple to operate wheelgun. THEN spend time and money on training and ammo. Overall I think knowing your gun and training are more important than the tool, I would say there is a minimum level of reliability in the tool that I want if my life is to depend upon it. In my experience, the price for that is less in a revolver than in a semi-auto.
     
  20. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    For someone with no experience with handguns the first step is to find what they point naturally. I may be a Glock or CZ75 or 1911, but if they don't point it naturally they've got to overcome that obstacle to learn to shoot it adequately. Once you know that you can pick an inexpensive version of what they point. If you point a 1911 save the bucks and buy a Rock Island and use the rest on training. If you point a CZ75 save the money and purchase a used Witness. If you point a BHP get the FEG and the training. It's not an either or world.
     
  21. HB

    HB Member

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    Smith and Wesson Model 10 and a class... M-10's are excellent guns and can be had used at $200
     
  22. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    Friends don't let friends compare Hi-Points and Glocks.

    They move the discussion to comparing Glocks to Springfield XDs and Sig Sauers and 1911 pistols.

    They never mention the Hi-Point pistols again in polite society,,,,,:D
     
  23. Doug S

    Doug S Member

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    I've been surfing these forums for a long time, and I have read many threads in which Hi-Point, Bersa, Kel-Tec, Taurus are discussed as reliable handguns at a good price point. When I first decided I needed a handgun for self defense, I went for the brands named above because I thought I'd get a reliable gun, at a price below something like a Glock. I can think of at least 15 guns that I purchased from 3 of the brands mentioned above, and all but a couple of revolvers had some sort of reliability issue. I gave up on them. I realize from reading the forums that many seem to have had good experience with the brands mentioned above, but I haven't. As a result, I can't recommend any of them. Some weren't bad, but none were particularly good. Quite a few (usually Taurus and Kel-Tec) were downright awful. After my experiences, I wouldn't trust any of the brands mentioned above to have anything remotely resembling long term reliablility. Oh, I forgot to mention. The only brand that I didn't have a problem with out of those mentioned above was a Hi-Point 9mm carbine, so I can't actually say anything bad about my experience with them. Still, the quality of construction, particularly the magazines did not allow me to feel comfortable trusting the gun for anything other than target practice.

    I've since settled on a couple of Glock 26', and a pre-lock 642 as my CCW guns.
     
  24. M&PVolk

    M&PVolk Member

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    I have a friend who recently purchased a Hi-Point and loves it. While there is no doubt that there are major quality differences between Glock and Hi-Point, there are some legit reasons to own a lower dollar gun. You can take them anywhere without worrying about what happens to them, feed them cheap ammo, and shoot the snot out of them knowing that when they wear out it's no big deal to replace them. Not that you can't do those things with a Glock, but for some folks the price difference really changes how they utilize a gun.
     
  25. wyocarp

    wyocarp Member

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    What amount are we really talking about here? There aren't thousands of dollars between these two. Most would be able to save the extra hundred dollars in a few months if they really wanted to. If they can't do that, they won't be able to shoot the thing anyway so it doesn't matter. I buy a lot of guns, but I spend more on ammo than I do on guns.

    For a lot of people they could save enough to buy the glock in a month or two by cutting out smoking and/or drinking.
     
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