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Glocks... Operator error or Weapon error?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Darebear, May 27, 2011.

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  1. Darebear

    Darebear Member

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    With all the stories of Glocks discharging I wondered. Are these negligent OR is it true that Glocks safeties fail sometimes and discharge without the trigger being pulled? I was always taught that a gun wont (or shouldn't) fire unless the trigger is pulled, so is every story of Glock discharges negligent or sometimes true weapon failure?
     
  2. Apocalypse-Now

    Apocalypse-Now Member

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    glock safeties don't fail. they would have been sued out of business along time ago if that were the case.

    people don't keep their finger off the trigger when they should. end of story.
     
  3. Spammy_H

    Spammy_H Member

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    What he said.

    Also, police officers have been known to accidentally get their rainjacket in between the gun and the holster upon reholstering, and a little bit of the material gets in the triggerguard, causing a discharge upon insertion into the holster.

    Hence the term "Glock Leg Syndrome"
     
  4. ATAShooter

    ATAShooter Member

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    HMMM, I'm an XD fan and I'd even have to say operator error. Glock safety systems are pretty darn good.
     
  5. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    A Glock striker isn't even fully cocked enough to fire until you pull the trigger and finish cocking it & also release the firing pin safety plunger.

    A total parts failure would not even cause a Glock to cock & shoot all by itself.

    SO, we can say with certainty that all Glock accidents are not accidents at all.
    Somebody or something had to have pulled the trigger to finish cocking it and make it fire.

    That makes it a Negligent Discharge, not an accident.

    rc
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  6. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    I wasn't aware that Glocks had a reputation for accidental discharge. Now there are a LOT of glocks out there so more instances of user error are likely to occur than with other comparable styles of guns but that is just statistical probability.
     
  7. rogertc1

    rogertc1 member

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    Acording to anti-gun people guns have a mind of their own....that id it...never the operator...(Sarcasm)
     
  8. Got_Lead?

    Got_Lead? Member

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    The Glock is a very reliable system as can be attested by it's many fans. The safeties on a Glock are comprised of a trigger block and a firing pin block, both of which are designed to prevents discharge if the pistol is dropped. However, when a finger comes into contact with the trigger, and pulls it, this disengages both safeties, firing the pistol. There are no other safeties on the weapon like many other guns have, that prevents the trigger from releasing while the safety is engaged. I guess this is what Glock had in mind when they built it, simplicity, pull the trigger on a loaded gun, bang.

    Anyway, the Glock is a safe enough weapon, and it won't go off without intentionally pulling the trigger. But it does require a great deal of respect. Factory trigger pull on the Glock is 5.5 Lbs, about the same as many single action automatics. So it doesn't take much to touch it off. Kind of like sticking a 1911 in your belt, cocked and safety off. I have an XD (similar trigger pull and safeties), I am extremely careful when holstering it.

    By contrast, the double action police revolver required typically from 12 to 17 Lbs, pull double action, making them much more intentional to discharge. A stiffer trigger spring called a "New York" trigger can be installed in the Glocks for just a few bucks, increasing the trigger pull to 12 Lbs. the New York Police Department required these to make the pistol much more deliberate to fire. The gun is not itself unsafe or unreliable, it just demands respect.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  9. Weevil

    Weevil Member

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    As others have said it's virtually impossible for a Glock to "accidentally" fire.


    It is of course quite possible to accidentally pull the trigger and have one fire.


    If the trigger is pulled they are quite reliable and will go bang.


    Depending on your skill level and trigger discipline, this can be considered either a good thing or a bad thing.



    Of course even an external safety won't keep a gun from firing when you "accidentally" pull the trigger, if you don't have it on. If you "accidentally" pull the trigger with the safety off it'll go bang just like a Glock.

    There's no substitute for good trigger discipline and good common sense.
     
  10. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    It is operator error, but Glock's andall of the striker fired guns all have a different fire control system than many are used to. If you are used to a traditional double action pull or a manual safety it is easier to mess up with a Glock. Actually there should be just as many with any of the striker fired guns, but there are many more Glocks out there to mess up.
     
  11. clutch

    clutch Member

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    This whole bunch of striker fired semi autos just feels wrong to a guy that was raised on semi's that have thumb safeties.

    My M&P compact in .40 has a manual safety, I bought a XD(m) because of the grip safety since I felt better with that than a Glock with the safety basically on the trigger and nothing else. Yes, I understand some drop the gun and it won't fire magic is taking place, but one clothing snag and you have an AD or ND depending on how you grade.

    My other semi auto's are one that is DA/SA with a hammer block safety and another DA/SA with a de-cocker.

    The holster becomes the second safety with these striker fired guns.

    Clutch
     
  12. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    There you have it DB. Those with no ADs to their "credit" say operator error. The pistol cannot fire without a trigger pull. Those who have been a party to an AD say miracle pistol of the future has a mind of its own, it's rare but it happens.

    7,000,000 Remington 700s out there and a few ADs later had this forum up in arms over the same question. Either way it poisons the water for some who love a great mystery and the rest of us will likely see the reality behind these tragic events.
     
  13. Frozen North

    Frozen North Member

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    "Keep your booger hook off the bang button"

    It is a universal rule, but especially important with a Glock. :D
     
  14. Red Cent

    Red Cent Member

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    Got Lead?, actually the Glock has three safeties. The trigger block, the firing pin block, and the drop safety block. Pulling the trigger actuates the trigger block and as the trigger bar starts to move, it cams the firing pin block up out of the firing pin channel. At the same time the drop safety block is a bar riding in a horizontal slot that gives way at the same time the firing pin is released.
    IMHO, you could throw the Glock into the Grand Canyon and unless it snags the trigger on something that sucker will not fire.
     
  15. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    1.)Follow the gun safety rules.

    2.) Glocks work better with certain holsters. I prefer thick kydex for OWB Glock carry. Ravens Concealment would be my pick for OWB.

    For IWB I prefer Crossbreed. But I'm extra careful reholstering Glocks IWB.

    Realize that if you can take your time reholstering, then do take your time. If you're transistioning back to your rifle, then it makes sense that you're in a hurry. But in that case you'd most likely have a Glock friendly OWB holster like the Ravens anyway.

    3.) Take a 3 day pistol course every year, even if you've allready taken it. Just to stay profiecient and safe. Good instructors can slap bad habits out of you before they become real problems. We all pick up a bad habit or two every year.

    Follow that and you'll never have trouble with a Glock.
     
  16. Weevil

    Weevil Member

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    Yeah it's not really rocket science.

    A Glock has a firing-pin block that has to be lifted out of the way by the movement of the trigger bar, and the striker spring is not fully cocked and can only be cocked to where it has enough energy to set off a primer, by pulling the trigger.


    If you pull the trigger or somehow snag it the gun will fire, otherwise it's just not gonna happen, regardless of what kinda tall tales you hear on the internet.
     
  17. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    To use an overused cliche, please send all these defective Glocks to me for proper disposal, because they're obviously firing themselves. :rolleyes:

    This is what happens when you try to make something idiot-proof: there is always a bigger idiot out there, somewhere.
     
  18. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    The Glock design has three safety devices, not positive safeties. All three of them are instantly turned off when pressure is applied to the trigger, whether it be finger, raincoat, or that folded over holster incident that made the rounds a month or two ago. The Glock with anything pressing on the standard original trigger is as safe as a cocked single action revolver with something pressing on the trigger. The New York and New York Plus triggers definately assist in reducing the possability of an ND, but just like any other firearm in history, no passive safety can full remove the possability of an ND. The operator must take care with the sidearm when using it, and should practice reholstering with an unloaded sidearm in a good quality undamaged holster, for safety's sake.
    Mechanical devices can only do so much, 99% of firearms safety depends on the loose nut behind the rear sight.
     
  19. Unistat

    Unistat Member

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    This cannot be said enough. So much goofy Glock info gets spread around the internet. It seems to go in cycles and it has been picking up lately.

    I guess since it's the 100th anniversary of the 1911, the iconic all metal pistol, it's time to bag on polymer pistols, haha!
     
  20. Strahley

    Strahley Member

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    A Glock is 100% perfectly safe to own and carry every day with a round chambered. Gun safety is reliant on the individual, not the gun
     
  21. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    That's a lot of responsibility for the end user. Couldn't we make it easier like the nightly news and blame gun ownership? I think the reason so few Volvos are involved in accidents is because there are so few Volvos on the road...unless you live in Sweden where their accident rate seems strangely higher. One might deduce that Swedes who own Volvos are bad drivers...

    Unless we are willing to accept draconian restrictions on ownership there will always be people who own, but should not, firearms that will be operated in an unsafe manner.
     
  22. Lonestar49

    Lonestar49 Member

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    Key

    ...

    Use with any gun "correctly" -

    safety.jpg

    It works


    Ls
     
  23. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    It's actually 5,000,000 model 700's with over 10,000 incidents reported to Remington of guns firing without the trigger being pulled. Plus the engineer who designed the gun discovered the flaw 60 years ago and tried to get Remington to redesign the trigger. At an extra cost of $.05/ gun Remigton decided it was too expensive.

    With a Glock, or any striker fired handgun extra care must be observed, but I'm not aware of a single report of one firing without the trigger being pulled.
     
  24. holsm50

    holsm50 Member

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    No, this is not your safety. It's just your finger!

    I do understand the point you're trying to make ------- that safe gun handling practices are the most important part of gun safety. And I agree with that philosophy. However, I think the finger=safety is an overly simplistic phrase most often used by Glock owners as an excuse for the pistol's lack of basic, conventional safety features. I usually hear Glock owners use this phrase right after they hear about someone blowing a hole in his leg with his Glock. It's a fact of life that human beings sometimes make mistakes. The consequences of some of those human errors could easily be avoided with traditional safety mechanisms (ie., manual safeties, grip safeties, etc.) that have been around for over a hundred years.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2011
  25. Lonestar49

    Lonestar49 Member

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    I'm going back to the trigger finger..

    ...

    Well, based on the OP's subject matter, i.e Glocks and knowing, such as the LAPD's drop testing of the Glock, way back when, from an 8 story building, same guns (many) times after time after time, fully cocked, and time and time again the gun sustained front, side, rear, front sight, "damage" but -

    The gun did not fire..

    Otherwise, damn near bullet proof when it comes to AD vs "ND's" involving them.

    They work well as designed and in safety-used methods as designed for both the gun/Glocks and their user's.. Little else wrong to say about them.. OMMV

    With exception of one old, soft, leather holster AD, as shown in pics, in here, THR, and the guys leg with a bullet wound i.e. trigger got caught up in "old" folded leather as he stuffed the gun into the old, worn out, used/abused, leather holster.. and went Boom


    Ls
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2011
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