Glued To The Bench--a growing trend?

[MyGreenGuns]

I had -NO- rifle training. I just tried to copy what I saw in the movies, which was never bench shooting.

My accuracy improved after my stance changed. A bit more after I realized the sling can be used for more than carrying the rifle. It got a lot better after I combined that with a kneeling position. I am now confident in my ability to effectively operate 1 of my 3 rifles (the one I've shot the most).

I was at a friends house showing off my targets and someone said, "my grouping is a tenth of that size!" I asked him to go shooting with me. (Perhaps I could learn a thing or two!)

We get to the shooting pit (50~60yds) and he pulls his rifle out of the case. It has a bipod and a little "peg leg" at the back. I watched while he took a few shots and adjusted the gun. Sure enough, when we retrieved the target, the hole was small enough I ripped it putting my thumb in it.

I shot the next target from my kneeling position. Got a fist size grouping.

Ask them to step away and shoot without a crutch, and the excuses start to fly right away, if they will do it at all.

After he got done ribbing me about how much better a shot he was, I challenged him to a 5rd "unbenched" shootoff. Once again, I had a fist size group. 3 of his rounds hit the target. But ... "the sun was in his eyes" and "the wind was blowing".

After I got done ribbing him about how much better a shot I was, we started debating the use of a benchrest.

Without making them angry--because this is apparently a touchy subject for some.

We decided to call it a truce when it started to get heated. We no longer discuss benchrest versus freehand. I still go shooting with him, he still uses his tripod gun, and still tells everyone he shoots better than me. Oh well, at least I dont have to walk up the mountain alone.

I also think the majority of folks on this fourm are lot more into shooting than the average gun owner.

^I thought I was a "gun nut" until I joined this site. I'm very novice in comparison to some of you, but I'll catch up!

 

[CharlieDeltaJuliet]

I shoot my AR's and normal rifles from a standing or kneeling position, but I have rifles that I simply cannot fire (unable to hold them without a bench)from either of those. I personally love to shoot offhand, but see no problem with anyone shooting only from a bench. I would hate to try to make people shoot their firearms, in a way they dont prefer. To me that would be almost as bad as taking my firearms.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I cannot speak for everyone, but the only reason I go to the range is to use their benches to work on load development or zero a scope. I have many other places where I can and do practice from other positions. I suspect many others do the same.

+10

Most "ranges" have far to many rules to go play run and gun games unless it's a organized match.

Over half my shooting is on private or blm land, but I like the bench for checking new builds, new reloads, scope installs and zeroing.

 

[Art Eatman]

Anybody care to guess just how many shooters have access to open land in rural areas where they can wander and do casual off-hand or other field-position shooting?

If the range doesn't allow free-style shooting, and you don't have open-land access, what do you do?

 

[Prince Yamato]

Pssh... You want to complain about bench shooting... I see people do it at the PISTOL range!

 

[chicharrones]

Like others here have mentioned, some outdoor ranges near me have a bar for the barrel to be under or a slit for the barrel to poke through. This only allows bench shooting at those particular gun ranges.

Urban sprawl crowding around old gun ranges has caused this. Before the sprawl, you could shoot in just about any safe shooting position. Now, there is a fear of elevated shots being fired into neighborhoods.

 

[JustinJ]

Sure, it's obviously their choice. I'm not dictator of the range. I can't take away the benches. Nor would I if I could. But this is more than just whittling we're talking about. It's rifle shooting--a core part of our national identity. And I think we're sitting down more to do it because we sit down more to do *everything* now.

Maybe just be glad so many people are shooting. You may feel rifle shooting, or doing so a certain way, is part of our core identity but the great thing about america is everybody can have their own idea about what makes the country great. No one thing defines our country, or any country for that matter. I believe a much more important core identity is freedom of choice and the "live and let live attitude".

Zombie and Red Dawn fantasies aside there is little real world practical application to being a proficient rifleman for the vast majority of citizens. Early america was a very different place and good marksmanship had very important life or death applications. Today the vast majority of civilian shooters do so because they enjoy it. As far as i'm concerned thats a very good thing.

Besides, if you go around a range trying to tell people about what positions they need to shoot from they are likely to advise you to get in a kneeling position to kiss their backside.

 

[padkeemow]

Most public ranges in the DFW area require you to shoot benched. I know one indoor range that will let you shoot standing on their rifle range, but it's only 50 yards.

While I do prefer shooting offhand, I like to bench shoot as well. It's relaxing.

 

[Driftertank]

While i don't question the legitimacy of benchrest shooting, to me it's kinda like "bench racing." Saying your car makes 500hp is fine and all, but can you DRIVE it?

Similarly, a 1/2 MOA rifle/scope/ammo combination is impressive, but if i stood you in a field and told you to shoot a 200/300/400 yard gong from a field position, could you do it?

Bench performance represents good equipment, field performance represents a good shooter, IMO. Shooting from a bench requires you to read conditions correctly and set up accordingly. Requires mental training. Field positions add to this, control over the body as well. Physical conditioning.

Perhaps this is why benchrest popularity is increasing. Americans love their "stuff" love buying it, love bragging about it. We're not so keen, in general, on training our bodies to perform on the same level. I personally am working on my cardio right now, because even mild exertion raises my BP and heart rate enough to throw off my aim, and that bugs me.

 

[BJ Orange]

I agree with the OP. On the other hand, plenty of people enjoy more the challenge of shooting sub-MOA from a rest than 2-3 MOA from a standing position.

 

[Cosmoline]

I'm not sure why some folks are thinking I'm trying to dictate how they should shoot. The irony is many ranges are apparently dictating that shooters must use the bench. So if there's a dictatorial trend--it's from the other direction. Apparently due to some grossly misplaced safety concerns.

But again, if fewer and fewer people even bother to learn how to shoot from the stances, then there will be less and less pressure on ranges to change such ridiculous policies.

Zombie and Red Dawn fantasies aside there is little real world practical application to being a proficient rifleman for the vast majority of citizens. Early america was a very different place and good marksmanship had very important life or death applications.

This really underscores the importance of my position. Rifles are in fact considerably more effective than handguns in *ANY* application save concealed carry. From home defense to hunting. To regard rifles as an antiquated curiosity, or relic from a bygone age, has negative political as well as practical implications. Not only will rifle shooters be less competent, but there will be more pressure to ban the "dangerous relics."

Appleseed has been doing great things in this regard, but I think all of us can do more. Most of us are likely to be in a position to train newbies at some point. Why not include some basic stance shooting? Starting with prone, high keeling, sitting and the other more stable stances, for example.

Again, I'm not telling anyone they *HAVE* to. I have no such authority. It's just a question of whether you want to see rifle shooting restricted to an exercise in ballistics or keep it part of our shooting heritage.

 

[BCRider]

Obviously we all get our enjoyment from doing things differently. And that's fine. I'd never take anyone to task over their choice. Well.... other than a little good natured ribbing if they were the sort that would take it as intended.

What bothers me more is the mention of the ranges that restrict rifle positions to strictly benched shooting. For similar reasons I get choked when I find out that I can't shoot my .44Mag handgun out to longer distances on the rifle range instead of being limited to 50 yards as found on the handgun range.

It seems a little odd that we firearms owners complain about how the various liberal types want to "socially engineer" the population out of gun ownership but then we turn around and find our own people limiting how we use our firearms to the point of being rediculous.

 

[Sam1911]

It seems a little odd that we firearms owners complain about how the various liberal types want to "socially engineer" the population out of gun ownership but then we turn around and find our own people limiting how we use our firearms to the point of being rediculous.

There may be some truth to that, but I don't think there's so many instances of someone restricting your ability to shoot from whatever stance you want out of fear, ignorance, or some will to dominate. Usually I see these as a range owner taking steps to control the chances of rounds leaving HIS property and causing damage which HE would be liable for. This may include "baffles" or barriers to limit the arc you can describe with your muzzle, limits on where or how close you may place targets, limits on what kind of shooting you can do in which bays/pits or on the line.

Our range is fabulously accommodating, with weekly IDPA practice, monthly NTI "study days," frequent tactical/self-defense trainers coming through, multiple monthly competitions in various "practical" disciplines -- yet we still have many of these controls in place to avoid any (additional ) errors.

And yet, I still see folks doing things (or evidense thereof) which seem destined to defeat our best measures. People shooting at heavy steel plates with .22s -- ricochets coming back uprange. People who've shot up furniture and even the range instruction signs intended to help them keep safe. Sad, really. We'll be the death of our own sport ... maybe.

 

[jim243]

I'm not sure why some folks are thinking I'm trying to dictate how they should shoot

It might be because of the comments that you are making. It would be nice if we lived in the 19th century, but I like indoor plumbing better. And I am sure that the millions of residents in the area I live in would like bullets wipping past their kids and homes. Besides asphalt and concret shopping centers parking lots are not the most comfortable places to shoot prone or sitting.

So why do we bench rest shoot, might have something to do with my having to drive and hour and a half to even get to a place where I can even fire my rifles.

You can do what ever you want, but I am going to be more respectful of other peoples choices.

Jim

 

[lexjj]

Reasons that I Shoot From A Bench (sometimes)

1. Sighting in the rifle

2. Developing handloads

3. The range does not allow me to use field positions (virtually every rifle range I have been to)

4. A way to eliminate variables to work on a specific technique: i.e. trigger control, breath control

5. I want to see what the rifle can do on a given day.

I shoot thousands of rounds in field positions with my trusty GI sling, been to appleseeds and all that, shoot IPSC..blah blah.

But I still like to sit on the bench now and then and try to breakdown specific skills. How's my trigger control today? Hows my breathing? How am I reading the wind?

Eliminating the field position and replacing it with a bench can be a diagnostic tool because it eliminates a variable. Even with the rifle on a rest, its not like it shoots itself. Trigger and breathing are still very important.

 

[Neverwinter]

It might be because of the comments that you are making. It would be nice if we lived in the 19th century, but I like indoor plumbing better. And I am sure that the millions of residents in the area I live in would like bullets wipping past their kids and homes. Besides asphalt and concret shopping centers parking lots are not the most comfortable places to shoot prone or sitting.

How is that relevant to the point regarding skill degradation due to restricted practice methods?

Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

[wingman]

Anybody care to guess just how many shooters have access to open land in rural areas where they can wander and do casual off-hand or other field-position shooting?

If the range doesn't allow free-style shooting, and you don't have open-land access, what do you do?

Wisdom from a fellow senior, very little area where I live to move and shoot, and yes even as I near 70 would still enjoy that with my AR. In my youth I lived in free America where folks would allow young guys to shoot but much of that is long gone.Having said all that if i were hunting today I would still select a rest to shoot from for a one shot kill. Move and shooting off hand and other positions are more suited for combat IMO. I'm Wingman and I'm a bench shooter.

 

[Inebriated]

I like to shoot off hand... I also like the bench, but I don't use the bench a whole lot. I hate kneeling, and prone is just dirty in the places I shoot, so unless I remember a mat, it's off hand or the bench.

 

[JustinJ]

I'm not sure why some folks are thinking I'm trying to dictate how they should shoot.

Because this comes off that way:
"What's gone wrong? What can be done to fix it? I have half a mind to print out some cards with the stances on them and start passing them around. If you can't shoot in the stances, IMHO, you really can't shoot."

This really underscores the importance of my position. Rifles are in fact considerably more effective than handguns in *ANY* application save concealed carry. From home defense to hunting.

For home defense distances i see very little if any relevance with being proficient in various positions and most hunters i know shoot with some type of support which i personally believe is more ethical.

To regard rifles as an antiquated curiosity, or relic from a bygone age, has negative political as well as practical implications. Not only will rifle shooters be less competent, but there will be more pressure to ban the "dangerous relics."

Thats a massive leap. What positions people shoot their rifles in has nothing to do with pressure to ban them. People either believe in a right to own said rifles or they don't. A guy who likes to collect military style rifles can opposes their banning just as much as guy who shoots standing.

 

[Cosmoline]

What positions people shoot their rifles in has nothing to do with pressure to ban them.

I was addressing your particular claim that rifles are antiquated and we really don't need to bother with the stances anymore. That's wrong as a practical matter, and it doesn't take much imagination to see how almost exactly the same arguments can (and are) used by the antis.

Which reenforces my larger point here--we need to keep the art of rifle shooting alive if we want to keep rifle shooting. These reports of ranges requiring everyone to shoot at the bench are extremely disturbing. And it doesn't appear to be isolated.

For home defense distances i see very little if any relevance with being proficient in various positions and most hunters i know shoot with some type of support which i personally believe is more ethical.

Some kind of support is not the same as a bench. And since you're most likely to be operating off-hand in home defense, it's pretty important to practice regularly in that stance if you're using a long gun for home defense. As far as hunting, even if you have a nice stump handy, you're still going to need to be proficient enough to bring down an animal that bolts up as you approach after being wounded. And knowledge of and practice in the stances helps make available resting surfaces *more* stable.

Nobody is stopping you from using a bench, but it does seem odd to be so virulently against encouraging people to actually get out of the comfy chair.

 

[wyohome]

We are lucky here to have large open spaces. Most everyone I know can shoot offhand because it is often the only shot you get. Sagebrush is too wimpy for a rest, but keeps all shots shoulder level or higher. I sight in from a bench, but shoot a few sitting and offhand during a trip to my shooting area.

 

[JPG19]

If I'm going to the range to shoot, it's either to sight in an optic, or test a weapon after some work/upgrades. No place at my range to get prone. You can, of course, stand and shoot unsupported.

 

[JustinJ]

I was addressing your particular claim that rifles are antiquated and we really don't need to bother with the stances anymore. That's wrong as a practical matter, and it doesn't take much imagination to see how almost exactly the same arguments can (and are) used by the antis.

I wouldn't necessarily call rifles antiquated. Even if they aren't necessary for survival in modern life i still see them as a protected right with valid uses. Many things aren't necessary but that doesn't mean one must support banning them. More people shooting in different stances isn't going to convince an "anti" that rifles are necessary for modern life either.

Which reenforces my larger point here--we need to keep the art of rifle shooting alive if we want to keep rifle shooting. These reports of ranges requiring everyone to shoot at the bench are extremely disturbing. And it doesn't appear to be isolated.

One of my local ranges recently went to this policy. I'm not a range owner who deals with the associated liability and insurance issues so i really don't have room to criticize. But given the increasing popularity of rifle shooting, even with more bench shooting, i think our right to shoot rifles are pretty secure compared to other periods in time.

Some kind of support is not the same as a bench. And since you're most likely to be operating off-hand in home defense, it's pretty important to practice regularly in that stance if you're using a long gun for home defense.

Knowing how to line up sights and operate a firearm is about all one needs to hit a target across a room. Not to mention the vast majority of HD shootings actually occur with handguns.

Nobody is stopping you from using a bench, but it does seem odd to be so virulently against encouraging people to actually get out of the comfy chair.

I realize nobody is stopping me and i actually do enjoy shooting from various positions with prone being my favorite. I do however object to the notion that your preffered way of shooting is right and another is wrong and in need of being fixed. Ultimately the vast majority of shooters do it for fun. Its that simple.

What i find odd is how virulently your are criticizing how others shoot. If you want to help others learn how to shoot from different positions thats great. But only do so to those who seek assistance.

 

[68wj]

This thread seems...familiar: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=601678

 

[Caligulla]

Unfortunately there aren't that many "open" or even IPSC ranges out there, and the ranges still open to the public not only wouldn't care to see a "walk down" competition offhand from 100 yards to 50 firing 60 rounds with two magazine swaps (one "competition" a friend and I in the service used to enjoy, moving forward while firing).

So I bought 40 acres in the middle of nowhere, heavily wooded, and I'm cutting some trails and distance shots into it, along with a few backstops and buffers to make sure nothing goes stray that doesn't go up. Maybe I'll have it finished when I'm still young enough to use it . . . Right now I don't even have my happy hunting cabin built yet, and I've had the land 5 years now.

I've gone out there a few times and done some shooting, and there's nothing like not having to worry about the range officer getting irritated about FMJ ammo to keep the bullet budget intact. Having to buy 168gr BTHP Match ammo instead of using my existing supply of military grade 168 grain sniper ammo was getting to be a pain.

I shoot mostly NATO standard calibers in non-shotguns, where I prefer the 20ga to the 12, if not for geese. I have some exceptions, but not counting .22's, my "rifles of WWII" collection, and some old Winchester rifles, not many.

Despite a rather large collection I have not a single AK clone. Mostly because I can't find one anywhere that has a milled receiver that costs less than your soul.