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Goex vs Swiss targets with Lyman 535 from MEHavey

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by jgh4445, Feb 8, 2014.

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  1. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    If I were going deer hunting with a .45-70, I would borrow a friend's Lyman 457122, the Gould Express 330 gr hollowpoint. Of which Mr Gould said "Loaded with 85 grains of Hazard's Ducking Powder, it shoots practically as flat as a .45-90 and with greater accuracy."
     
  2. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    But it's got to shoot accurately, first & formost. Unfortunately my 45-3¼ Sharps and my 45-90 rolling block are long throated -- a trait apparently shared by the OPs `78 Lyman w/ another Pedersoli chamber/barrel. I've got targets from back in the early-mid 80s that utilize the whole target backer with 300gr holes. :banghead:
    No matter, That's a traditional design for traditional repro's.

    On the other hand, my 45-70 Marlin Guide Gun likes 405 Flat points -- hot. ;)
     
  3. Don McDowell

    Don McDowell Member

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    That gould bullet gets mixed reviews, but be that as it may the OP's rifle already shows a dislike for the lighter bullets with that 18 twist, so he's going to have to stay on the heavy side of 1.1 inch bullets to get the thread the needle accuracy.
     
  4. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    ^^^^^^
    This (+1)

    Gibbs' Rule #73: Feed the rifle what it likes.
     
  5. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    The 45-90(WinchesterCenterFire) and the 45-2.4" Sharps are identical cases. They are not identical chamberings.

    - The 2.4 Sharps presumed a heavy bullet/long throat suitable for single-shot falling/rolling blocks, 1:18 Twist

    - The 45-90WCF was designed on the same case using a short/light bullet/short throat suitable for limited OAL lever actions, 1:32 Twist


    ~~~~~~~~~~
    Always remember Gibb's Rules

    It may look like a duck, but isn't
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  6. jgh4445

    jgh4445 Member

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    Exactly guys, it doesn't like short, lightweight bullets. Hopefully this weekend I'll get to try some of the big Govt RN bullets my friend found. His Dad cast them years and years ago before passing away. A hardness test shows them to be pretty much pure lead, ( 8 to 10 BHN). I'm anxious to see how they shoot. We don't know what mold they came from but they weigh 520-30 on his ( my friends) scale. I'm guessing maybe RCBS 45-530. I'll probably end up with that mold or the Lyman 457132. I'm a bit concerned with the RCBS mold because the RCBS's I already have seem to pour a bit shy of the advertised diameter. I've only cast from wheel weights in them for 45LC, 44 and such. I'd rather they pour a tad light than small. Also, I can't thank you guys enough for putting up with my newbie questions etc. Special thanks again to Mi9ke for sending me the postells and educating me on the need for the long noses in my rifle.
     
  7. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    Actually, that's about twice as hard as lead (4.5-5.0) and probably
    cast from wheel weight which have "self-annealed" over time.

    Should be `bout perfect as it approximates the 16:1 old-time alloy .
    Remember soft lube. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  8. jgh4445

    jgh4445 Member

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    Yep, you're right. Lead sure is 4.5-5.0. I used a Lee tester and the hole reached almost all the way across the scale. For some reason, I read it as almost pure lead. I'm probably gonna use a 30:1 alloy, at least that is what I have about 20 lbs of left.
     
  9. Don McDowell

    Don McDowell Member

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    The rcbs 530 is a postel/creedmoor shaped bullet, not a particularly good hunting bullet either.
    RCBS82084.jpg
     
  10. jgh4445

    jgh4445 Member

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    This is the bullet I'm going to try this weekend.
     

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  11. Don McDowell

    Don McDowell Member

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    That's the 500 gr government bullet.
     
  12. jgh4445

    jgh4445 Member

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    Loaded some of those Govt bullets this morning. Funny, I used 65 gr of Swiss 1.5 and also 65 gr of Swiss 2F. I tried one and two .030 wads in different 5 shot loads. In all the loads, after compressing the powder with a die apprx .200, hand seating the bullet, the bullet would creep back up in the case, sometimes as much as two grooves high. Never had this happen before. I then seated them again against the wad and used a lee factory taper crimp die to just barely kiss the rim to hold it in place. What causes this? These are once fired, unsized, Starline brass.
     
  13. Don McDowell

    Don McDowell Member

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    Air is trapped under the bullet, and not enough neck tension to hold the bullet in place.
     
  14. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    You need resize -- barely -- but you still need to narrow that neck area a bit
    before re-belling (also just a bit). Otherwise the compressed air underneath has
    nothing to resist it pushing the airtight piston called a greased bullet right back out. :banghead:
     
  15. jgh4445

    jgh4445 Member

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    Ok, I'll let the sizer die barely touch the neck. I loaded up 4 groups of the big round nosed govt bullets with the Swiss 1.5. They do shoot! I also took my last five of the bullets you sent to me and loaded them with 1.5. WOW...I increased the powder to 70 gr and removed one wad. Compression is really close to the same. Wish I had kept that target to photograph but we were in a hurry and I forgot it. Anyway. I shot 5 of the govt bullets with 65 gr of Swiss 1.5 and 5 of the Lyman Postells.. All 10 shots made one big ragged hole about 3 inches wide. I also shot three other 5 shot groups of just the govt bullets and they also shoot to a 2.5 to three inch group. I'm not satisfied with that but I am happy with it for starters. I'll keep refining until I find that sweet spot. Probably gonna buy both the 457125 and 457132 molds. Both shoot really well I think.
     
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