Going back to a progressive?

[Olympus]

I started my reloading experience with a brand new Lee Loadmaster several years ago. I found the learning curve to be huge, I was constantly having problems, I spent more time fixing problems than I did loading ammo, it never gave s consistent bullet seat, and was a general PITA, so I ended up selling it a long time ago. I went out and immediately bought the Lee Classic Turret and have been using it with pleasure for the last several years. Great press!

Since buying the LCT, I have moved to the country where I can shoot in my backyard. Now I'm finding that my reloads are drying up faster than I can replenish them and with my first child here, I have even less free time to spend behind a press handle so I'm looking at maybe going back to a progressive press, only for 9mm and 45acp. Those are my two high volume calibers.

Another Loadmaster is completely out of the question. Been there, done that. I'm considering the Hornady LNL but I know nothing about them. I also know Dillon has a huge following, but I also know nothing about them either except for their high price tags. I'm not sure I want to spend Dillon kind of money right now. I still plan on keeping the Classic Turret. Any advice would be very helpful.

 

[ku4hx]

Dillon's prices are a bit high, but what counts is value. My 20+ year old RL550B has had a few problems in the last five years and Dillon shipped me FREE updated parts. That included a new powder measure tube, a crank and shaft (actually two), and a low primer buzzer unit. They've done the buzzer replacement twice.

All things considered, my 550B has been remarkably reliable. If I ever get my son into it, I'll be getting him an RL550B.

I sure there are other presses just as good, but my experience with Dillon has been outstanding with respect to the press, all the various accessories and customer service.

On thing, over the years, I've kept all the moving parts well lubricated. The replacement crank came with a shaft that had a grease nipple on one end. Spiral cuts in the replacement shaft got grease all along the shaft as verified by the small dab of grease that works out of the bleed hole at the other end of the crank. A nice touch I think.

When I called Dillon and told them they'd shipped me two replacement cranks, they told me to keep it, or give it to a buddy who needed it.

I use my Dillon for all my high volume handgun calibers, .223 Remington and 7.62x39. For the "large" caliber rifles (30-30, 30-06, 300 Winchester Magnum, .308 Winchester and etc.) I still use my RCBS Jr single stage press. I did, for a time, use the Dillon for 30-06, but I like IMR 4350 for it and the Dillon powder measure just doesn't do extruded powders as well as I wanted. And my larger bore rifle days are few now days so that was find with me.

 

[CB900F]

Olympus;

I can't speak to the Hornady LNL, I've never used one. However, I have had a Dillon RL550B for something like 25 years or so. I can say without reservation that the Dillon support has been superb, the price paid amortized over the years has been minimal, and the problems have been non-existent.

The sole, minor, gripe I have with it is the changing of primer sizes. And that's, believe me, minor. I've purchased several of the accessories over time and am well satisfied with them also. They were, the strong mount, the bullet tray, and the press mounted tool rack with the tools.

If you are indeed going to shoot enough to justify the cost of the press and the time saved producing ammunition, it's pretty hard to beat a Dillon. The press itself will never wear out, Dillon themselves will ensure that! If you take even minimal care of it, I doubt they'll ever have to rebuild it. Check out the Dillon "No B.S." warranty. You won't find a better warranty in the business, and it's highly unlikely you'll ever have to use it.

900F

 

[scythefwd]

IF you are positive you are only gonna load 9mm and 45 on it, the dillon square deal B may be an option and save you a few dollars. I have one I bought used, called dillon about a piece that I broke installing it wrong, and they sent a free replacement part anyways...

Appreciated it so much, I upgraded to a dillon 550 (its not auto indexing like the square deal, but it can do rifle rounds.....)

 

[wally]

I too use the Lee Classic Turret for my low volume calibers but have a pair of Dillions one dedicated to .45ACP the other to 9mm. I also have a Loadmaster dedicated to .40S&W but like your experience, I spend as much time futzing with it as I do loading with it

Before I got the Dillions I had a pair of Hornady predecessors to the Lock and Load. They gave many years of good service, but eventually things wore to the point I was having constant indexing and priming problems and they had been replaced by the Lock and Load press.

IMHO Hornady has been refining/updating the Lock and Load to match the XL650 and may be about there, but with all the options the price seems about the same in the end.

I prefer the Dillon toolheads to the LnL bushings. If you plan to switch calibers. I'm about to junk the Loadmaster and get a .40S&W conversion for my 9mm 650.

I say suck it up, get the Dillon and start loading.

 

[Olympus]

I would also like to start volume loading 223 at some point. I have something like 8k pieces of brass, but it takes forever just to do 100 rounds on my Classic Turret.

 

[jwrowland77]

I have the Hornady LNL Auto Progressive and absolutely love it. As far as quality it's right there with Dillon but has the quick change bushings which I love. Warranty: right there with Dillon as well.

If you decide on the Hornady, watch Bill Morgan's You Tube videos.

I took mine directly out of the box and set it up per the videos and never looked back.

As far as my big rifle stuff for match or hunting, I still load those on the Hornady and RCBS single stages I have.

 

[Kaldor]

I started my reloading experience with a brand new Lee Loadmaster several years ago. I found the learning curve to be huge, I was constantly having problems, I spent more time fixing problems than I did loading ammo, it never gave s consistent bullet seat, and was a general PITA, so I ended up selling it a long time ago. I went out and immediately bought the Lee Classic Turret and have been using it with pleasure for the last several years. Great press!

Since buying the LCT, I have moved to the country where I can shoot in my backyard. Now I'm finding that my reloads are drying up faster than I can replenish them and with my first child here, I have even less free time to spend behind a press handle so I'm looking at maybe going back to a progressive press, only for 9mm and 45acp. Those are my two high volume calibers.

Another Loadmaster is completely out of the question. Been there, done that. I'm considering the Hornady LNL but I know nothing about them. I also know Dillon has a huge following, but I also know nothing about them either except for their high price tags. I'm not sure I want to spend Dillon kind of money right now. I still plan on keeping the Classic Turret. Any advice would be very helpful.

Both the LnL and the Dillon presses have their hits and misses. Id skip right to the 650 if going Dillon. The 550 is a good press, but for the 550 money you might as well just buy a LnL which will be better over the long haul, especially if you want to change calibers often or need a case feeder. So this boils down to LnL vs XL650.

Cost: No case feeder, the LnL. However, if you add a case feeder right from the start, the 650 is probably a better route. At that point, they are roughly the same cost. Another cost is changeovers. LnL is less pricey for change overs.

Volume: The 650 is a better volume press when using a case feeder. Case handling is better.

Quality: About even

Customer Support: Dillon, but Hornady's support is great as well

Ease of use: Probably the Dillon once setup. LnL will require some minor maintenance like pawl adjustment from time to time. Hornady case feeder can be a PITA to get running perfectly

Go read the PDF Ive attached. It lays out the pros and cons of these presses very nicely.

Full disclosure: I own a LnL with a case feeder. I load 9mm, .223, & 300 BO on it. I load my .308 on a single stage for the moment because its low volume. Will be loading .45 ACP and maybe .357 on it as well in the coming year.

Another option if you can hold out is the new RCBS ProChucker. If I was in a position where I was looking to go progressive right now, Id give the 7 stage a serious look, especially for pistol. RCBS needs to get a case feeder up and running for these presses though. Not having that is a miss in my book.

 

[Olympus]

Thanks!

I just looked at costs and the 3 that I compared are all very competitive. Dillon Square Deal B with dies is $330. RL550B with no dies is $340. And the LnL is $400.

 

[Kaldor]

Thanks!

I just looked at costs and the 3 that I compared are all very competitive. Dillon Square Deal B with dies is $330. RL550B with no dies is $340. And the LnL is $400.

The LnL comes with 500 free bullets too. If your loading .45, that basically knocks another $145 (retail cost - shipping) off the press.

Thats what sold me when I bought my LnL last fall.

 

[kostner]

Load all my rifle ammo on a Lee Classic press but for handgun 45 & 9mm I have two Dillon Square Deals and a third tool head in 38/357. The SDb's are both over twenty years old and turn out hundreds of rounds a week with little trouble. Remember the Dillon No BS warranty. After you purchase your press its covered for life. Don't even consider the Loadmasters.:banghead:

 

[BCRider]

One way to lower the learning hill is to deactivate the auto indexing feature on the press and manually index the shell plate. Then once you get things running well and know you can trust all the stations to work every time put the auto index feature pieces back in.

Getting a consistent primer ejection is a big one. Particularly with small primers. They seem to love to lock up around the ejection pin and pull back into the primer pocket. For this reason I want to replace my fixed pin holders with the spring loaded ones so the primers are kicked off with a snap. I only mention this because it's one of the prime reasons why I prefer a manual indexing mode on my own press.

I'm a huge fan of my Dillon 550b. But if I were doing it over again I think I'd go with either a 650 or the Hornady simply because I'd get an extra die position to allow installing of a powder check or some other die for any special purposes. And with the Hornady 5 position press being around the same price as the four position 550b it sure does look attractive. The ONLY downside to the Hornady press is that the shell plate kits cost a bit more than the Dillon 550b kits. But there again you get the option of that extra die position.

On a budget? If you're SURE you will only load two different calibers a Square Deal gets you into a nice press at a lower cost. The downside is that with the Square Deal you are locked into needing to use the special dies that are needed by the Square Deal. Which is why this is fine if you'll be only doing a couple of calibers but not so great if you will be looking at a wider selection of calibers. And that would be why a fair number of Square Deal users buy one for each caliber. Switching is possible but it's a little fussy due to the way the press is made. And because of this special design the dies are not in any way usable outside of the Square Deal body.

All in all and having closely looked at the Hornady but not used one if I were starting out and wanted a mid priced and trouble free progressive press I have to say that the Hornady looks REALLY good. The 550b is only kicked off the #1 place by the one less die station while being comparable in price

 

[mgmorden]

I've never used a Dillon personally (nor Lee's offerings), but I do have a Hornady LNL.

It seems strange, but with 9mm and .40S&W I have absolutely no problems with it. The unit runs smooth as silk and I highly recommend it. Configured for .45, it binds up constantly. Not sure if I've got an out of spec plate or what, but the setup just doesn't work well. Mostly ejection issues, but I even seem to have issues with the bullets not lining up right with the seating die and crushing cases far too often (one per 25-30 rounds).

Now, from a fuctionality perspective, the Hornady LNL is somewhat close to the Dillon XL650. Its got autoindexing, 5 stations, can handle rifle cartridges, etc. However, the XL650 does include a tube for case feeding. Hornady's case feeding mechanism only is available with the powered hopper.

IMHO, if I had it to do over again, I'd strongly look at the Dillion SDB press. Its got some limitations but none that are deal breakers for me and it's comparable in price to the LNL.

I will say that Hornady's support has been pretty good. I accidentally broke the plastic arm that holds the prime tube assembly to the press. I epoxy'd it back together but called them for a replacement which they courteously and promptly sent. Went I replaced it and went to put the glued together one back into my box of "extra stuff" I noticed that the press already had some with a spare of that part.

 

[Kaldor]

Configured for .45, it binds up constantly. Not sure if I've got an out of spec plate or what, but the setup just doesn't work well. Mostly ejection issues, but I even seem to have issues with the bullets not lining up right with the seating die and crushing cases far too often (one per 25-30 rounds).

Not to high jack, but...

I had this issue with a .223 shell plate. Its out of spec. Hard insertion and ejection. My local shop actually handled the warranty for me, so start there. If not, call Hornady, get a new one.

 

[cfullgraf]

Olympus,

Besides this thread, search the internet and get more information on all the presses. All the major manufacturers of progressive presses make good units but sometimes what works for one person does not work for another. There is a good comparison of the Dillon 650 and Hornady L-N-L out there.

I like my Hornady L-N-L for handgun. It is easy to set up. Easy to change calibers. Easy to change die positions around, I resize at one time and load at another. The half index on the up stroke and half index on the down stroke makes for less jiggling of the cartridge. I have never needed to adjust the pawls on my Hornady after 5 years of use.

I use dedicated Dillon SDBs for 45 ACP, 9x19 and 38 Special. Nice presses but I find change overs a bit time consuming. Also, the cost of an additional press is not much more expensive than a change kit. So, I have dedicated presses. I built a shelf stand to hold the presses not in use and swap out the presses when changing cartridges. Proprietary dies are a bit of a negative. Only Dillon supplies dies.

With the SDBs, I do the resizing and case prep on the Hornady.

The Hornady tends to tip tall cases such as 223 Remington that makes lining up with the dies difficult on occasions. Of course, a new case holding spring might fix that. Mine has more kinks than Carter has liver pills and I am too cheap to put the new one on.

I bought an RCBS Pro2000 for rifle. Works well except with cases full near the top spill powder as as the press indexes. I have trouble with 300 BLK but 204 Ruger does not spill powder. RCBS is introducing a new seven station press. If it is not in stores now, it will be soon.

I recently bought a Dillon BL550 to load primarily 300 BLK but some other rifle cartridges and 460 S&W Mag. i got the BL550 because it does not have a priming system or powder measure. I have several Hornady/RCBS case activated powder measure systems that i use on the Dillon. In theory, I can control the speed of the indexing with the manual index and minimize powder spilling. I just got the Dillon installed so i do not have much time on it. The four station press has some limitations.

If you plan on using a case feeder, the Dillon 650 is probably the best choice in my opinion.

I do not like the tube style priming systems. Lots of folks seem to make them work fine. Before I scrapped them on my presses, i spent way too much time fixing priming system related problems. Besides, I prefer to clean my cases between resizing and loading. I'm happy priming off the press and I still load more ammunition than I can shoot in a year.

The RCBS APS priming system has merit and the Pro2000 is the only press that I prime on. I still resize at another time for cases loaded on the Pro2000.

Just one person's opinion but another data point for your decision making process.

 

[CB900F]

Olympus;

If you want to do volume .223 loading, the Dillon 550 or 650 is perfectly capable of doing that little chore as well. I load for my AR on the Dillon, the CZ bolt .223 gets it's rounds done on the Rockchucker, it's a much lower round use gun. Besides, I'm still fooling around with loads for the CZ. As for the extra die station comments, the only thing I can say is that it's never made a difference to me.

900F

 

[Potatohead]

Now that you have some time in, maybe you could master the Toadmaster, do you still have it? There are some folks here who have success with it.

 

[BCRider]

Now that you have some time in, maybe you could master the Toadmaster, do you still have it? There are some folks here who have success with it.

When I looked at You Tube videos for the Loadmaster I found that a rather large number of the videos were related to fixing, modifying or otherwise coming up with special procedures to allow for features that were less than perfect. So I'm not at all surprised that he ran into many issues that got in the way.

Having been through a few Lee presses that were given to me I was more than happy to give them away. This fairly standard issue of Lee presses needing to have things fixed or modified to make them more usable showed up on the Classic 1000 progressive I had as well. As a result I don't like or recommend Lee presses other than the basic loop style single stage. And even then the one included in that box of stuff turned out to have a bad bore alignment issue between the ram and die position that saw me tossing it in the scrap metal bin since I could not think of anyone I hated enough to give it to.

 

[Blue68f100]

I've had the LNL-AP going on 8 yrs now. I added the brass feeder a year later. Both Hornady and Dillon make good AP but none are perfect. If I had to do it again I would still go with the LNL-AP. Mainly for the simplicity of the machine. Very few moving parts with the only adj being the paws. Once these are set properly there is no need to ever touch them again. Mine has not been adj in over 3-4 yrs now. I looked at the 650 when I was comparing. The cost is close to the same with brass feeders. The big difference is caliber conversions being cheaper on the LNL-AP. The 650 is design to run around the brass feeder. When I purchased mine I got 1000 free bullets + 100/die set. So it made the LNL-AP less than 1/2 the cost of a 650.

Either one will serve you well. Both have a good warranty and back there machines 100%+.

 

[fiftybmg]

I started my reloading experience with a brand new Lee Loadmaster several years ago. I found the learning curve to be huge, I was constantly having problems, I spent more time fixing problems than I did loading ammo, it never gave s consistent bullet seat, and was a general PITA, so I ended up selling it a long time ago. I went out and immediately bought the Lee Classic Turret and have been using it with pleasure for the last several years. Great press!

Since buying the LCT, I have moved to the country where I can shoot in my backyard. Now I'm finding that my reloads are drying up faster than I can replenish them and with my first child here, I have even less free time to spend behind a press handle so I'm looking at maybe going back to a progressive press, only for 9mm and 45acp. Those are my two high volume calibers.

Another Loadmaster is completely out of the question. Been there, done that. I'm considering the Hornady LNL but I know nothing about them. I also know Dillon has a huge following, but I also know nothing about them either except for their high price tags. I'm not sure I want to spend Dillon kind of money right now. I still plan on keeping the Classic Turret. Any advice would be very helpful.

You can buy two Hornady LnL presses for the price of one Dillon XL 650, set one up for large primers and one for small, plus buy all the shellplates you need for different calibers, die sets, powder measure inserts, and still have some change left over.

There is no difference in quality between the two brands.

 

[Olympus]

I think the 650 is bigger and more expensive than I need. I'm thinking either the 550B or the LnL.

 

[Crawfish1]

Hornady LNL made the most sense for me for my money. I have been very satisfied with the press. I still wonder how they can sell that kind of quality with 500 free bullets so cheap. Setup and learning curve is very easy.

 

[loose noose]

I haven't heard too much in regards to the RCBS, I've got the Piggy Back II, progressive reloader with auto indexing, that I bought brand new back in 1992, and have been using it ever since. Granted things do wear out on all reloaders, however I've always been treated very well with their customer service, and they have never charged me one cent for the replacement parts. I've put quite a few upgrades on mine however I can easily put out about 300 rounds an hour.

I'm not sure if they still produce that, however if I thought I was going to live long enough, I'd go with the RCBS progressive new model in a minute. My old RCBS Rock Chucker is still going strong, as I reloaded a ton of everything from .223-45-70 on it. Anyway you might check out the RCBS web sight also.

 

[Bud0505]

I've been loading since '89 on the same Dillon 550B. Other than tips for primer pickup tubes and a cotter pin for the primer chute I have not had any parts fail. I have loaded thousands of pistol rounds with few problems. I see that several have mentioned the SDB and I'm sure that is a fine machine but it requires SDB unique dies which are different from the dies used by the other machines listed.

 

[Olympus]

Yeah, I think the Square Deal is out of the running based on the die issue.