Gonna start a war, but this is a serious question

Status
Not open for further replies.
In order to make a fair comparison you would have to find a powder that works well for both of them, but since the 308 runs slightly higher pressure and will burn off it's charge faster that is tricky. IMR4350 in one of the few that work really well for both of them w/165s.
308 50gr @2792fps
30-06 57gr @2832fps
While IMR4350 is not the hottest load listed for either of them it is mid range for both and probably the most common powder used for both, plus they both shoot it very well (accuracy wise)
Both loads were tested in the same brand 1:10 twist 24" barrel.
 
No animal or man shot with one or the other would notice the ~200fps difference.

Hunter: Bang!
Moose: OUCH, that really hurt, but because it was only a .308, I'm just going to shrug it off. If it was the venerable .30-06, I'd probably be on the ground right now!
 
If you're not going to handload, .30-06 can save you about a buck a box for factory ammo based on a highly unscientific browse of some websites - however, if you're going to shoot surplus ammo, .308 is still being made for military purposes (M240 machine gun for example) whereas .30-06 isn't, so longer term, the market will eventually run out of surplus '06 (most of what I've seen lately is from the 1960s).

all that said, I answered the same question a couple of months ago by buying an '06...
 
As far as the short vs. long arguement, the difference in casing length is only 0.476", which is about 1.1% of the length of a 42" rifle - other than the difference in bolt travel when loading, it's a pretty moot arguement that seems to be more geared to selling guns than providing any real performance improvement. 1/2" of extra barrel length will only give about 10 FPS more velocity, far less that is lost by dropping to the .308.

Probably starting another war with the short action junkies, but that's what makes this stuff so fun...
 
30-06:
can be loaded to higher velocities.
can shoot heavier bullets
is more readily available
is more versatile for handloaders

308:
can be kept standing on a shelf with less than 2.9" of vertical space
more can be kept in a tubular device where they must be placed end to end
more can be kept in the smaller pockets of womens pants or coin purses

ok, so really that's 30-06 4 to 3, so cant we all just agree its better and leave it at that?
 
Originally posted by elrowe,

all that said, I answered the same question a couple of months ago by buying an '06...
Click to expand...

Welcome to the high road.....I think you're going to fit right in.
 
I could load each hotter, but the best compromise in speed and accuracy with my 30-06 is 57 Gr of IMR 4350 with a 165 Gr bullet. I'm getting 2825 fps with that load. My 308 shoots the same bullet only 85 fps slower (2740 fps), but only needs 45.5 gr of RL 15 to do it. The 30-06 needs 20% more powder to get 3% more speed.

kinda comparing apples and oranges there with 2 different powders aint ya? for instance 41 grains of imr3031 gets me 100 more fps than 48 grains of h414 in the same cartridge.
Click to expand...
As several others have noted, comparing the 2 rounds with the same powder is a moot point. Comparing the 2 with the powders that give the best performance in each is actually more of an apples to apples approach. 4350 has long been recognized as one of the best 30-06 powders and RL 15 has proven to provide good performance in the 308. While there are other combinations that might show slightly different data the basic principles apply. If you were to load equal amounts of the same powder in both a 308 and a 30-06 case, with the same bullet, the 308 would provide more velocity. Load both rounds to equal velocities, with the same bullet, regardless of the powder used, and the 308 will have less recoil.

With the best loads the 30-06 will always beat the 308. If you bother to read my first post I noted that in full size rifles I saw no advantage to using a 308, but it's advantage was in smaller more compact rifles. This would allow a shooter to get 97% of a 30-06's velocity, and he can choose to get a lot less recoil in a full size gun, or select a much smaller and lighter gun and not have to deal with any more recoil than a 30-06.

A note about heavy bullets. Even at 180 gr the velocity advantage of the 30-06 is still only about 3%, and yes the 308 will easily stabilize 180 gr bullets. The difference with heavier bullets starts to be enough to matter, or does it. With todays newer solid copper bullets a 30-06 or 308 with 165 gr Barnes TSX bullets will easily outpenetrate the old school 220 gr lead bullets. So why bother with them in either chambering?
 
If you want to compare the most potent powders for each here you go, streight from Nosler #6
308 win 180gr bullet 44gr IMR 4064 2718fps
30-06 180gr bullet 61gr RL22 2872fps

308 165gr bullet 52.5gr Big Game 2910fps
30-06 165gr bullet 63gr RL22 3002fps

308 150gr bullet 48.5gr Varget 3001fps
30-06 150gr bullet 58gr Big Game 3056fps

While it is clear that the 06 always has a slight ballistic edge at max load it is also clear that the 308 case is much more efficient, meaning less recoil, less powder burnt and less wear on the barrel.
 
not necessarily the most potent loads, just the more common ones.

i keep seeing your data for the 30-06 and it just looks weird. 58 grains? 61 grains?

i load 30-06 with imr 4895. probably the most commonly used powder of all time for the caliber, and i can get a 168grain otm bullet to avg 2880 chronographed over a ten shot string with less than 52 grains of imr 4895.

my standard garand load is a 150g fmjbt with 47 grains of h4895 in de-milled machinegun brass and they teeter right around 3000fps with excellent standard deviation numbers.

it just does'nt take 10 more grains of powder to get great performance out of the 30-06 cartridge than it does to get similar or slightly lower numbers out of the 308.

maybe 3-4 more in my experience, but not 10 more.
 
FlyinBryan said:
not necessarily the most potent loads, just the more common ones.

i keep seeing your data for the 30-06 and it just looks weird. 58 grains? 61 grains?

i load 30-06 with imr 4895. probably the most commonly used powder of all time for the caliber, and i can get a 168grain otm bullet to avg 2880 chronographed over a ten shot string with less than 52 grains of imr 4895.

my standard garand load is a 150g fmjbt with 47 grains of h4895 in de-milled machinegun brass and they teeter right around 3000fps with excellent standard deviation numbers.

it just does'nt take 10 more grains of powder to get great performance out of the 30-06 cartridge than it does to get similar or slightly lower numbers out of the 308.

maybe 3-4 more in my experience, but not 10 more.
Click to expand...
Because that is an overpressure load, max load of 4895 with 168gr bullets is 48gr. We could go back and forth over my overpressure load vs yours but I tend to stick to the messured/published data. 47gr of 4895 has a published velosity of only 2752fps with a 150gr pill, might want to check your chrono.
Edit. Barnes load data shows 48.5 gr of H4895 at only 2822fps. http://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/30-06SpringfieldWeb1.pdf so I HIGHLY doubt you are getting a real 3k out of 47gr.
 
Last edited:
i believe you may be looking at h4895, which i show a max load of 47.5.

48 grains is closer to the starting load with imr4895 and a 168g bullet (it's the exact starting load to be precise)

max suggested loads with imr4895 is 51.2, but keep in mind that is suggested max loads (not that i exceed them) but it is not an overpressure load. i know how to work up a load and watch the pressure.
 
FlyinBryan said:
i believe you may be looking at h4895, which i show a max load of 47.5.

48 grains is closer to the starting load with imr4895 and a 168g bullet (it's the exact starting load to be precise)

max suggested loads with imr4895 is 51.2, but keep in mind that is suggested max loads (not that i exceed them) but it is not an overpressure load. i know how to work up a load and watch the pressure.
Click to expand...
Nosler listed IMR and Barnes listed H, your chrono is wrong if it is showing 3k, either that of you have some magic bullets and I want some :)
Barnes does show a 51gr max for the H4895 in 150gr so you are a little over standard pressure with 168s for sure, but if they shoot well and you don't have any flat primers I say stick with it.
There are some loads in which the 06 was closer to 308 efficiency, but they are less potent then the max load 308s I figured if I posted those the 06 fanatics would eat me for breakfast.
 
Last edited:
Looks to me like a 308 saves enough powder to load another shell every five rounds. I don't know if that counts for anything! If you don't reload it is a moot point.
 
Barnes does show a 51gr max for the H4895 in 150gr so you are a little over standard pressure with 168s for sure
Click to expand...
but im not using h with the 168's, im using imr, and the published data that i have shows a max charge of 51.2 grains.

i just cant conclude that 51.2 grains of I M R behind a 168g bullet is too much because 51grains of h4895 is the max load for a 150g bullet. two different powders.

besides, wasnt your original point how the 30-06 used too much powder to justify its results with numbers of 58, 61, and 63 grains?
(now we are discussing how 51 is too much,,,,,, and 48 would be more like it)
 
Now I suddenly feel the need to go buy the horandy and serria load manuals too, is there a chance that both Barnes and Nosler made a mix up? I would think that is a 1 in a trillion chance.
 
FlyinBryan said:
but im not using h with the 168's, im using imr, and the published data that i have shows a max charge of 51.2 grains.

i just cant conclude that 51.2 grains of I M R behind a 168g bullet is too much because 51grains of h4895 is the max load for a 150g bullet. two different powders.

besides, wasnt your original point how the 30-06 used too much powder to justify its results with numbers of 58, 61, and 63 grains?
(now we are discussing how 51 is too much,,,,,, and 48 would be more like it)
Click to expand...
If you are correct (and I am assuming you are) then Nosler and barnes left out the two most efficient loads from their data, because nothing they have listed comes close. The smallest charge they have listed that will drive a 150gr bullet to 3000fps (308 speeds) is 58gr of Big Game, and the smallest charge that will match the 308 in 165gr is 61gr of RL22. That is a huge difference to say the least.
Nosler only lists IMR only at charges of 51gr for 150gr and 48gr for 165gr. Barnes lists only H4895 at 51 gr max for 150gr
 
What calibers win the majority of rifle shooting contests at distance?
Click to expand...

6.5mm-6.8mm or calibers in the 265 ish range.

both rounds we are discussing are the same caliber-----> .308
 
If foot pounds of energy of bullets mean anything one can compare various cartridges by refurring to cataloges from the ammo manufactors. The old 06 has the edge over the 308 Win.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

R
  • Locked
recoil question, 308 vs 30-06
2
Replies
35
Views
7K
Vern Humphrey
V
SSN Vet
  • Locked
Remington 700 question
Replies
2
Views
428
270Win
2
longdayjake
  • Locked
double stacking ammo question
Replies
5
Views
322
Vaarok
V
U
  • Locked
The problem with the .30TC
Replies
12
Views
24K
Uncle Mike
U
R
  • Locked
Long Action: .30-06 vs. .270 Win vs. .308 Win
Replies
23
Views
3K
NWCP
N
Back
Top