Good C&R Pistol for pocket carry

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by RS3RS, Apr 1, 2006.

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  1. RS3RS

    RS3RS Member

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    Due to Missouri's stupid gun laws, I can't own a "normal" hand gun until the age of 21 (which I am not yet), but I can own (and carry, with permit) any C&R handgun so long as I'm 18 years old.

    I have a C&R Colt 1911 .45 that I bought from GunBroker as a primary carry gun, which I love. It's been "restored" (reblued and some internal restoration work done), and I've only had it for a few days so I haven't got to the range with it yet, but it seems like a very nice hand gun. I've also got a Milt Sparks VM2 holster and gun belt for it, and it's pretty comfortable.

    But, you guys know how it is, sometimes it just feels too big, and uncomfortable, plus I would like a nice back up gun anyway.

    Do you know of any good, small guns that are C&R eligible, that might be small enough to pocket?

    I like the Colt 1908 .25 auto, but I'm not sold on .25 being a very good caliber. Is a Colt 1903 hammerless small enough to pocket, or is that more of an IWB gun?

    A nice, small revolver would be good, but I can't seem to find one. Any recommendations?

    I wish I could just buy a j-frame or Kel Tec... Crazy, crazy laws.

    Thanks ;)
     
  2. mrmeval

    mrmeval Member

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  3. RS3RS

    RS3RS Member

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    So long as it's a decent-ish stopper for a BUG, doesn't really matter. I'd prefer .32 or .38, but you take what you can get. :)

    edit: I like that Walther PP .32 and the CZ-50... Probably way too big to be pocketable though? Never seen them in person (gun newbie :)).
     
  4. mrmeval

    mrmeval Member

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    Sorry about that I think we crossed between my edits. I reread your post.

    I'm not much of a fan of the nazi stuff but there are some good pistols coming in in .32 that were use by them. There are a few Walthers around that are C&R.
     
  5. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    The 1903 and 1908 Pocket Hammerless guns are basically jacket pocket guns. A Walther PP wouldn't really fit in normal sized pants pockets either. 1908 Vest Pocket or a 1906 Baby Browning will fit in a pants pocket, but you would definitely want to keep the chamber empty.
     
  6. SapperLeader

    SapperLeader Member

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    Besides autos, are any of the s&w I-frames a possibility for c&r? I know they were made between late 1890s and post wwII. One of those would be real nice for the pocket, and theres a good discussion right now about them in the revolver forum.
     
  7. eastwood44mag

    eastwood44mag Member

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    Only one I know of is a Nagant, but I've heard mixed reviews.
     
  8. Chipperman

    Chipperman Member

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    How about a Beretta 1934?

    .380, so it's almost a real gun ;)
    small enough to go into a pocket if your pants are loose.
     
  9. Scottmkiv

    Scottmkiv Member

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    Makarov
     
  10. aguyindallas

    aguyindallas Member

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    I was also think a Makarov would be a great choice...
     
  11. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Stupid Laws?

    Maybe I've had the wool pulled over my eyes, but I thought FEDERAL law was 21 to own any modern handgun, C&R or not. If Missouri laws will let you buy and get a carry permit for C&R hanguns at 18 I'd say it's pretty darn cool, not stupid. Glad to hear you're an 'adult' at 18 in Missouri instead of 21 like most states.
     
  12. MattBeck

    MattBeck Member

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    Actually, Missouri is worse that federal law in many ways.

    We're not 'adult' enough to own a non-C&R handgun until 21, due to our Permit to Acquire law which C&R's are exempt from.

    And our in-state Missouri CCW permit is 23+. Of course, we recognize a ton of OOS permits, including Maine's which is 18, or Florida/Utah's that are 21, and we recognize them on those terms.

    Missouri's laws concerning handguns are pretty confusing, convoluted, and full of weird loopholes.

    Matt Beck
     
  13. PotatoJudge

    PotatoJudge Member

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    Maybe this'll help

    http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/relics/#SEC.%20II:

    Don't ask me what kind of "logic" went into making that list. I'd take that to local gunshops and see what you like and if it's on it. You might find a Bayard, Beretta, Colt, Browning, Walther, or any of a number of odd/no name guns of a similar size. From what I've seen, most are .22 or .25 with fewer available in .32. Good luck
     
  14. cane

    cane Member

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    I'm really confused, Federal law prohibits anyone under 21 from buying ANY handgun, C&R or not. You bought a pistol from Gunbroker, it had to be transferred through an FFL or are you telling us you have a C&R license? In addition, I reviewed the CCW law on packing.org, it says you have to be 23, and no where did I see anything about an exemption for C&R weapons. Help me out here, I'm willing to learn something new.
     
  15. stolivar

    stolivar Member

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    no

    if you have an out of state CCW you do not have to be 23 in missouri. And yes you can buy C&R if you are under 21.


    steve
     
  16. MattBeck

    MattBeck Member

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    Federal law prohibits anyone under 21 from buying a handgun through an FFL. If you recieve one as a gift from a parent, buy one in a private face to face in state deal, etc, theres no federal law regarding that. The only thing that comes into play is state possession laws.

    In Missouri, its 18 to legall possess a handgun, the hitch is the 'Permit to Acquire". This requires a permit to acquire any handgun, and is issued at 21 and up. However, Curio and Relic handguns, with a specifically referenced definition as -

    "Curio or relic firearm is any firearm deriving value as a collectible weapon due to its unique design, ignition system, operation or at least fifty years old, associated with a historical event, renown personage or major war"

    are exempted in the law - to quote again

    "Subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to the acquisition by or transfer of concealable firearms among manufacturers, wholesalers or retailers of firearms for purposes of commerce; nor shall it apply to antique firearms or replicas thereof; nor shall it apply to curio or relic firearms as defined in section 571.010"




    As far as Missouri's Permit to Carry, i know TONS of people carry at 21+ on Florida and Utah Permits. Basically, Missouri Law states you have to be 23 *to apply to a Missouri Permit*, however, we fully recognize a ton of other states permits, including other states OOS permits.



    Missouri's state level gun laws can be found HERE. As far as i know, this exemption has never been prosecuted one way or another, and I personally have never heard a legalalise opinion on it. All i know is what i've deciphered from the law.

    Hope this helps/clears things up/leads to some thoughtful discussion.

    Matt Beck


    (Edited to fix link)
     
  17. mrrick

    mrrick Member

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    MAKAROV!
     
  18. RS3RS

    RS3RS Member

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    Close, but not quite... Federal law prohibits anyone under 21 from buying any handgun from an FFL dealer. Face-to-face, private party transfers and gifts are not the same. I had an older relative of mine pick up the 1911 and give it to me as a gift, which, since it is C&R, is perfectly legal.

    The C&R only affects me acquiring the handgun, as far as I know, all laws are the same between C&R and modern guns when it comes to carrying. You can get a non-resident permit from the state of Maine at the age of 18, and it is honored in Missouri. :)

    Anyway, looks like I may be picking up a Makarov soon. :)

    I love this forum... :D
     
  19. cane

    cane Member

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    RS3RS from reading your posts, #1 said "I have a C&R Colt 1911 .45 that I bought from GunBroker". Now you say your older relative bought it and gave it to you as a "gift". A reasonable person would infer that you and your older relative made a prohibited "strawman deal". Remember the question on the 4473 about being the purchasher of the firearm? I'm also confused about what state you have a CHL in, care to tell us?
     
  20. Savage.250

    Savage.250 Member

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    +1 on the Makarov. Have a polished blued Bulgarian Mak (9x18 Makarov) which is very accurate and reliable.

    Also have a CZ 50 and 70. I had the 50 in my front pocket (unloaded) as I walked down my folks driveway (where I do my shooting) with an armload of accessories (chrono, sandbag for rifle, targets etc) and accually forgot it was there for a bit. Niether the 50 or 70 are as accurate as the Mak and the 50 likes to stovepipe. Although they seem to be getting better as they become broke-in.

    Good shooting!
     
  21. MattBeck

    MattBeck Member

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    (B15) May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)? [Back]


    Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e. g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting. [18 U. S. C. 922( x)]



    From the ATF's own FAQ, purchasing a firearm as a gift is perfectly legal.
     
  22. Manedwolf

    Manedwolf member

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    I'd tried a friend's Mak...and while it might have been okay for the time, now it seems awfully heavy for a small caliber?
     
  23. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    Makarov for pocket carry?!

    Some of y'all must have some HUGE pockets.



    Also, Bulgarian, Russian Commercial, Simson-Suhl and Chinese Maks are NOT C&R.

    C&R Maks are East German and Russian (Soviet) Military.
     
  24. Scottmkiv

    Scottmkiv Member

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    I'm a big guy, 6'5" amd 280, but a Makarov fits in any pair of jeans that fit me. I do have a pair of ski pants that I can pocket carry a glock 17 in though.
     
  25. oweno

    oweno Member

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    I don't think that the Bulgarian Makarovs are on the C&R list. I think that the East German ones are. The Soviet Union ones may or may not be, I think.

    Please take careful note of the use of the word "think" in the above. I am not sure. Check the C&R list. Really. Do this. Check the list I mean.

    And besides which, the Mak is on the large side for pocket carry. And heavy. (But I *do* love mine...several thousand rounds without any kind of failure.)
     
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