Good Milsurp with available ammo?

Status
Not open for further replies.
NeedsMoreMillimeters

NeedsMoreMillimeters

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
13
Location
SLC Utah
So, I am looking for a good milsurp rifle that I can shoot a lot (preferably a kind the saw real action). I am still somewhat open to options, but I've kind of fallen in love with the K98k (there is a real beat at my LGS for a great price). Ammo is the issue though. I have been looking around at the milsurp calibers, but aside from 7.62r, none of them seem to actually be available in any decent quantity ins milsurp form/price (i.e. only new manufacture with the attendant price). For example, lots of forums, and even some gun mags, are saying the Mausers are great because you can find 8mm cases and such at very low cost (some claim $0.30-$0.40/round), but all I've been able to find is premium stuff. What am I missing?
 
The time for cheap surplus ammo and milsurp rifles have been gone for a while now. Most surplus ammo has dried up or blocked from coming into the country for the time being. My suggestion is only food for thought. you might get one of those 1916 Spanish Mausers that are chambered in 308. Win, or 7x57. There is still some surplus ammo for those, but the rifles are in pretty rough shape. 8mm, 303 British, 7.62x54, are a few that I havn't seen for a very long time as surplus. Best of luck on your quest.
 
So far ive had a 1903, pair of Mosins, and a pair of Arisakas, and the 03s been cheaper to feed than the others.
Honestly i think for cheap shooting you may find surp ammo at a good price from time to time at which point buy a ton. Otherwise small lot purchases of common factory rounds will likely be cheaper.
Also if you live where you can get mail order ammo that would be a good way to go.
 
I think the buy now is a Yugo Mauser, 8mm which isn't the cheapest to feed now but it is out there. Think I got an email today with it for around .60 a rd. Gain there is that the rifle is around $300. After that, SKS as has been mentioned, ammo there is less.

If you get into full caliber ammo it is $$ in most cases. Big bullet so lots of components there which costs.
 
Best option frankly is an ar15 if you plan on firing a lot of ammo. After that, a sks followed by a yugo Mauser. Try the steel cased 170 gr 8mm stuff at jg sales if that is what you want. Even the mosins are bringing pretty good coin along with its ammo.
 
boom boom said:
Best option frankly is an ar15 if you plan on firing a lot of ammo.
Click to expand...

Beat me to it.

I shoot a Garand. A case of ammo cast 4 times what it does for an AR15. Whatever mil-surp you considering, compare the cost of ammo to the cost of an AR15. I'll bet you a jelly doughnut that it won't take long at all (2 cases for me) to be as much as buying an AR.

I hate like heck to say that, because I really really don't like AR's. But that doesn't mean it's not a good plan. If I didn't just enjoy the M1 so much, I'd have an AR. Even though don't like or enjoy them. Ammo is just too cheap and too plentiful (even during the drought) not to own one.
 
Yeah, but you have to think about what a lot of shooting is ... An AR mag dump takes a minute or two (if slow) and that's kinda fun a few times, then what ... Shooting a bolt action rifle and developing trigger skills and working on reactive targets can take hours to burn two boxes (40 rounds). Yeah, you can shoot faster, but you may not accomplish anything, and in fact, may re-enforce bad habits ...

Best to buy a bolt something. K98, Arisaka, whatever. Become familiar with it by field stripping. Maybe polish the sear and/or swap triggers (long two stage triggers can be a hindrance to some...), Timney makes replacements for almost all surplus rifles. Then go see what you can do...

Working that old 6 o'clock hold and targets out to 300 yards with iron sights, trying to at least keep your groups consistent, is all good :)

Then get a Lee loader (small kit) and reload your once fired brass. It's cheap and good part of the process. And guys that think you need a turret press to reload are not credible. Some national champs have reloaded with a simple lee loader kit once they figured the best recipe for their rifle :)
 
toivo said:
The extra money you spend on the rifle ...

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/626818356

... you'll eventually save back on the ammo:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a...e=MFS+7.62x54R+FMJ+174grn+20rd+Box&groupid=40

It's commercial ammo, but it's a lot cheaper than Greek milsurp .30-06 for the Garand.
Click to expand...

And the Greek mil surp for the Garand is drying up. They've been out of stock sporadically a few times.

I shoot the PPU M2 Ball new manufacture at $405 per 500 rd case.
 
The key here is the O/P said that they wanted a milsurp that they could shoot a lot. The closest to matching that is the AR-15 at this moment.

Right now, as DB Cooper says above, large bore ammo will run you about 40-55 cents per round for steel cased Russian Ammo, (HXP is now 75 cents a round at the CMP) and some milsurp ammo has to be ordered online which adds shipping and handling to your per round cost. You can buy .223 or its cousin 5.56x45 for 30-40 cents per round or less at Wally World or other local stores for brass cased factory loaded ammo while still being a centerfire round. 7.62x39 is comparable but due to steel bullet cores being common, cannot be fired at all ranges. 7.62x54r, .308 (7.62x51) and .30-06 represent the next best value and availability.

AR's as noted on other postings are about as cheap as I have ever seen them and even from brand names such as Ruger and S&W. When you can buy a brand new rifle with a warranty without any potential issues that milsurps can have for $450-500, it is difficult to justify paying $350 for a good Yugo m48 + transfer fees, s/h, etc. if not available in your neck of the woods.

BrocLuna,
You are really evil to suggest reloading as it is the gateway to all sorts of rifle buying, then dies, reloading components, learning how to reload, etc. By that time, a person is too far gone to save from a lifetime of buying new to them rifles just to justify reloading a new "better" cartridge--there is no exit except for the very strong willed. Just like scopes, best to just say no or risk a lifetime of expensive habits. :cuss:
 
boom boom said:
BrocLuna,
You are really evil to suggest reloading as it is the gateway to all sorts of rifle buying, then dies, reloading components, learning how to reload, etc. By that time, a person is too far gone to save from a lifetime of buying new to them rifles just to justify reloading a new "better" cartridge--there is no exit except for the very strong willed. Just like scopes, best to just say no or risk a lifetime of expensive habits. :cuss:
Click to expand...
Reloading the Gateway drug......werent we supposed to start a reloaders anonymous around here at some point?
 
boom boom said:
You are really evil to suggest reloading as it is the gateway to all sorts of rifle buying, then dies, reloading components, learning how to reload, etc.
Click to expand...

:uhoh:
Just say no to reloading.

AR-15 or inexpensive bolt gun would be my choice. .223/5.56 is the cheapest CF ammo on the planet. Tangent sights are pretty awful when you consider everything else like ghost rings, scopes and those holographic gadgets. Chances are you will need a spotting scope anyway to see the holes on 300 yard target so why not just buy a rifle that you can put a scope on to begin with?

I reload .223 for 20 cents a round. Factory ammo isn't that much more. I can quit any time I want to, just not today.
 
Last edited:
NeedsMoreMillimeters wrote:
...I am looking for a good milsurp rifle that I can shoot a lot...
Click to expand...

Are you looking for a military surplus rifle for historic reasons or because you feel it might be cheaper than buying something new?

If the former, I certainly think you made a good choice to look at the K98.

If you're just looking for inexpensive, I would suggest a modern bolt gun chambered in .308 and then reload for it. The brass is readily available and comparatively inexpensive and there's a broad range of bullets and powders for it.
 
BrocLuno said:
Yeah, but you have to think about what a lot of shooting is ... An AR mag dump takes a minute or two (if slow) and that's kinda fun a few times, then what ... Shooting a bolt action rifle and developing trigger skills and working on reactive targets can take hours to burn two boxes (40 rounds). Yeah, you can shoot faster, but you may not accomplish anything, and in fact, may re-enforce bad habits ...

Best to buy a bolt something. K98, Arisaka, whatever. Become familiar with it by field stripping. Maybe polish the sear and/or swap triggers (long two stage triggers can be a hindrance to some...), Timney makes replacements for almost all surplus rifles. Then go see what you can do...

Working that old 6 o'clock hold and targets out to 300 yards with iron sights, trying to at least keep your groups consistent, is all good :)

Then get a Lee loader (small kit) and reload your once fired brass. It's cheap and good part of the process. And guys that think you need a turret press to reload are not credible. Some national champs have reloaded with a simple lee loader kit once they figured the best recipe for their rifle :)
Click to expand...

You can do that with an AR.
 
I shoot my semi's (mini, SKS, AR) to stay proficient. I shoot surplus bolt guns because I really enjoy it.

Based on OP's post, "looking for a good milsurp rifle that I can shoot a lot (preferably a kind the saw real action)", I'd say the historical aspect is important.

AR's will be less expensive per round, but a turn bolt milsurp will slow down consumption rate for many people to a competitive edge, cost-wise.

If you don't like the gun, you're not gonna shoot it. Narrow your pick down to maybe 3 that appeal to you most, then do some serious homework on the ammo cost comparison.

My most cost effective milsurp, my Romanian M69 trainer in .22lr. Shooting all day for $20. :)
 
This is a time of flux, so, what was may not be so now or in the future.

After all, six months ago no one would have thought that you could get an AR for $00 and that a Moisin would be $800. Just as, 20 years ago, an SKS and a case of 7.62x39 were $80 for either; varietal Mausers were from $100 to $150 (at least for 6.5 & 7mm).
Inflation makes $80 then abotu $125 now, but supply & demand cannot be denied.

Consider the M-1 carbine, 20 years ago, really nice military carbines were $400, now they are $1200 or more. Two decades ago the "commercial" carbines were c-note guns, beater military ones were $200, now they are $800.
 
MosinT53Hunter said:
The time for cheap surplus ammo and milsurp rifles have been gone for a while now. Most surplus ammo has dried up or blocked from coming into the country for the time being.
Click to expand...

How much surplus ammo is out there currently blocked from coming into the country where there's a possibility or half-possibility of it legally coming in the future? Which ammo would that be?

Isn't there a mountains of surplus 7.62X25 Tokarev ammo in China?
 
The last Israeli Mauser I saw was 300 dollars. Ishapores are 350, maybe 400. They are not the as sought out as the American, German or Swiss bolts of the day. I think the Israeli Mauser are cool because they are converted K98s for obvious reasons. Cool history to me.
 
Last edited:
peacebutready said:
How much surplus ammo is out there currently blocked from coming into the country where there's a possibility or half-possibility of it legally coming in the future? Which ammo would that be?

Isn't there a mountains of surplus 7.62X25 Tokarev ammo in China?
Click to expand...

China also made the 8mm Mauser, 7.62x39, 7.62x54, 9mm, 45 ACP, etc. Maybe a little inferior than what US ammunition makes produce, but its nice and cheap. ;)
 
NeedsMoreMillimeters said:
So, I am looking for a good milsurp rifle that I can shoot a lot (preferably a kind the saw real action).
Click to expand...

I've bought quite a lot of surplus rifles over the years and have drawn a few conclusions from it. I hope this is of some help to you.

First off, anything that is US military surplus has dried up except for on the used gun market and carries a high price but usually has good ammo availability.

Second, most surplus rifles that likely saw much "real action" are usually pretty rough, "Russian capture" 98's might be an exception but most are pretty mismatched, not that it usually matters for a "shooter". I like my RC 98k. British Enfields also might be another option here. They run the gambit condition wise from very clean to very used but most that I've seen are still very shootable.

Third, foreign (non US) surplus rifles that have good, inexpensive ammo availability are usually priced high. Some rifles like SKSs and Mosins were an exception to this rule for a quite a while but not so much anymore.

Fourth, good, clean, foreign surplus guns that are inexpensive usually have poor ammo availability. A good example of this were the great buys on excellent 96 Swedish mausers. When I bought my first Swedish mauser for $79 the only ammo I could find was Norma and it was $39 a box! Now the ammo availability is much better but the supply of rifles has dried up except for the used gun market and prices are now high on rifles. Again, Mosins, and SKSs used to be the exception but are not nearly as cheap to buy or shoot anymore.

My recommendations for a "surplus" rifle to shoot? (Keep in mind that most of these are no longer available as "surplus" but are going to be found on the used gun market.) I'd look for a good M48 Yugo Mauser 8mm (many of these are very clean), a Russian capture 98 8mm, an Israeli 98 308, an Enfield 303, a Swiss K31 or a Swedish Mauser 6.5x55. Out of these the RC or Israeli 98's or the Enfields might have some battle field history. Keep in mind that with all of these you are "paying for" some history or nostalgia. As others have pointed out, from a strictly dollars and cents point of view, you are better off buying a new Ruger, Savage or Remington bolt action or a new AR. The last bit of advise I have if you want to shoot any of these much is to reload. Good Luck with your search.
 
Last edited:
hdwhit said:
I'm not hooked. I can quit any time I want!

Seriously, I found it easier to stop drinking than I imagine I would find it to stop reloading.
Click to expand...

I stopped reloading precisely because I did NOT want to stop drinking! Reloading requires much more time devoted to sobriety than I cared to spend, so off it all went and I have never regretted giving it up.

But that is just me. Hic...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
  • Locked
MilSurp Ammo?
Replies
4
Views
575
cracked butt
C
M
  • Locked
Good milsurp rifle?
2
Replies
36
Views
3K
451 Detonics
4
E
  • Locked
most accurate of the milsurp ammo?
Replies
17
Views
711
Zak Smith
Zak Smith
C
  • Locked
milsurp rifles
2
Replies
37
Views
2K
NC-Mike
N
M
  • Locked
Best milsurp bolt gun
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
cracked butt
C
Back
Top