Quantcast

Goodbye W231/HP38?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by judgedelta, Aug 8, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. kcofohio
    • Contributing Member

    kcofohio Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    3,617
    Location:
    NW Ohio
    I had assumed that ADI in Australia produced the three Clays. Not so?

    ljnowell, I agree, that is why I don't play the market or bet on ponies. ;)
     
  2. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    4,156
    Location:
    Somewhere in WA.
    As of March of this year W231/HP38 was not on the list of powder being produced for Hodgdon by St Marks.

    I would say that it isn't being made any longer.
     
  3. Average Joe

    Average Joe Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,387
    Location:
    Easton, PA
    Well its their prerogative to produce whatever product they want, but its my prerogative to buy what I want. My new replacement powder for w231/HP 38 will not be a Hodgdon product.... Now they will loose me as a customer forever. Can they afford to loose that many customers ? We'll see.
     
  4. orionengnr

    orionengnr Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,463
    Interesting.
    W231 is one of my favorite pistol powders. I just gave up my 8-lb jug in trade for a well-used Dillon 550.
    Figured I'd be able to replace the 231...maybe not.
     
  5. GT1

    GT1 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    805
    Location:
    IL
    It is only powder. Lots of powders to choose from. If you are hinging your reloading life on HP 38/Win231 then it will be a lesson learned, maybe.

    I'm not sure why anyone would be angry at Hodgdon, but some folks are like that(marginally insane).
     
  6. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    4,156
    Location:
    Somewhere in WA.
    Alliant powder is made here in the US, they don't buy powder from off shore, relabel it, and mark it up. They also don't market the same powder (HP38/W231) under different names and publish different load data for each one.

    I switched to Alliant a long time ago when I found out that Hodgdon wasn't exactly a powder company.
     
  7. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    5,245
    Location:
    Southern CA
    I was said to see 7625 go, I was sad to see 4756 go, I will be even sadder if HP38/231 goes. Will I stop purchasing Hodgdon powders if HP38/231 goes away, no.

    I prefer Universal for 9mm, but HP38 is been my go to for .45 APC.
    4.7 or 5 gr HP38, 230 RMR plated.

    Guess I need to get my hands on some AA#2 or Ramshot ZIP to try, they look like they might be a best guess for a HP38 replacement.
    N320 worked real well for me in .45 but it's almost 50% more per pound.

    If HP38/231 went to N320s price would we all be willing to pay the premium or would most of us just use something else?
    While I like N320 and HP38 I just don't think I would buy much HP38 at $35 an lb. (assuming other choices are $20-$25 / lb)

    If it is an old process waste stream issue, it makes me wonder what other powders might be effected. :uhoh:

    It will be interesting to see if we see more people start selling the some of the powders we are not used to seeing here in the US like the Maxam, Explosia and Vectan powders.

    Side note
    I have used Titegroup with MBC lead and coated in 9mm and .45 with no ill effects in light to midrange loads. (no issues with leading) I have also heard it is "to hot" for lead but it seemed to work fine for me.

    It would be great if they start making Universal in Canada as well as down under at ADI. I really like Universal, maybe not the best for everything but a good all around powder that meters better and is cleaner than Unique.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
  8. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    22,649
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    Not true. Alliant RL15 is made in Sweden - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=577067

    In February of 2015, ATK/Alliant got spun off to Vista Outdoor and like RCBS moving manufacturing offshore, we may see more globalization of Vista Outdoor products - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=777478

    BTW, Vista Outdoor parent company owns following companies:

    Alliant Powder
    Camelbak
    Cébé
    Champion Targets
    BLACKHAWK!
    Bollé
    Final Approach
    Gold Tip Arrows
    Hoppe's
    Outers
    Primos
    RCBS
    Serengeti
    Speer
    Uncle Mike's
    Weaver Optics

    Companies will make decisions that affect their bottom dollar and share holder interests. If the decision reduces waste products and increases profit, can't blame the company.

    I like W231/HP-38 among Hodgdon's other pistol powders (WST/Titegroup/WSF/AutoComp and made in USA) but elimination of W231/HP-38 won't hardly affect my shooting/reloading as there are many other good pistol powders, particuarly made in USA.
     
  9. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    4,156
    Location:
    Somewhere in WA.
    Interesting. You caused me to do some research which is good.

    Seems all of Alliants RL powder is produced by Bofors in Sweden. Who owns that company? Well it isn't Vista Outdoor for sure so my statement is totally incorrect as you stated.

    Looks like another US company has control of that plant as they make a lot of powder for US military small arms. Same company that manages the Army's Radford VA plant. :scrutiny:
     
  10. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    4,156
    Location:
    Somewhere in WA.
    Interesting. You caused me to do some research which is good.

    Seems all of Alliants RL powder is produced by Bofors in Sweden. Who owns that company? Well it isn't Vista Outdoor for sure so my statement is totally incorrect as you stated. I came up with some weird stuff. Looks like the same defense contractor that pushed ATK out of the Radford Plant.

    Some speculate that RL-15 also has a military designation, M something or other.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
  11. wlkjr

    wlkjr Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    422
    If you do the math the cost difference in $20 per pound to $40 per pound is less than two cents per round. Not enough to break my budget.
     
  12. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    26,387
    And just to add to the general hilarity, ADI is changing processing and will have new powders:

    "This new series of powders will be called the APS series of powders, starting with APS35 that will replace AS30N (Clays), and APS45 that will replace both AS50N (International Clays) and AP50N (No US sales version I know of.) You will see these powders start appearing on the shelves after May this year, and we will be making reloading data available for them on our website and in the 2015 edition of our reloading manual, which will be released in May. Our development of APS-series powders to replace AP70N (Universal Clays) is well under way, but we will continue to supply AP70N throughout 2015 until the new powder is ready for release."

    APS powders will come out in May 2016 with another year's supply of AS/AP powders on hand... unless the Next Panic gobbles it up sooner.
     
  13. steve4102

    steve4102 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,458
    Location:
    Minnesota
    It's a free country, do as you wish, but.

    ..can you explain why you would blame and desire to punish the distributor(Hodgdon) for the decisions of the manufacturer (General Dynamics).

    Hodgdon has NO say in this decision, they are most likely more upset about GD decision to phase out 231/HP-38 then you are.
     
  14. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    9,141
    Location:
    East TN
    If you do the math, most powders are priced at similar levels. Even though there are many that might buy W231/HP38 at higher levels, many more will probably not, me included.

    The volume of sales will fall off to the point where it will not be profitable for Hodgdon to inventory the powder.

    There are too many alternate powders out there that give similar performance as W231/HP-38.

    Basic retail economics.

    As a result of the Great Panic of 2012, I have been developing loads with alternate powders for most of what I reload. I'll miss W231/HP-38, but I can live without. I have been since 2012.
     
  15. Toprudder

    Toprudder Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,767
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Well, despite the evidence, I will believe it is gone when it is gone. But that will be hard to determine, because it has been mostly gone for the last couple of years anyway.

    Over two years ago, there was a rumor that HP38 was being discontinued since it was identical to W231. Apparently, that never happened either.

    One positive thing about the shortage of powders - I picked up a pound of anything I could find, just to try out. I've found a few keepers as a result. I'm still testing new powders.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. RevDerb

    RevDerb Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    642
    Location:
    Marysville, MI.
  17. J_McLeod

    J_McLeod Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,541
    Location:
    Homestead, FL
    I just came back from several months away from THR and this is the first thread I saw. Tragic. It was my favorite powder. HS-6, Longshot and Titegroup will all make suitable replacements though
     
  18. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,201
    Location:
    The Peoples Republic of IL
  19. RevDerb

    RevDerb Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    642
    Location:
    Marysville, MI.

    Hmmmm.... Interesting. I guess that I missed it in the 100+ previous posts.
     
  20. slickracer

    slickracer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    138
  21. evan price

    evan price Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    5,513
    Location:
    http://www.ohioccw.org/ Ohio's best CCW resour
    Read the letter from the rep, they didn't say it was discontinued per se, just that other powders will be more available and eventually the St Mark's plant will stop making it. Not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday.
     
  22. Toprudder

    Toprudder Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,767
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Does anyone think this may be an attempt to increase demand for it so they can jack the price?
     
  23. steve4102

    steve4102 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,458
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Really, Increase Demand?

    Where have you been?

    There is no way any of these powder manufacturers can keep up with demand now. There is no need to do so artificially by spreading rumors.
     
  24. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    60,957
    Location:
    Alabama
    I think we have covered this adequately. :)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice