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Goofy Armslist deals

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Madcap_Magician, May 2, 2013.

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  1. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    Besides the usual "Will you trade your Glock/Beretta/Colt/S&W for my Taurus/Hi-Point and $50..."

    A week ago I put a Beretta 92A1 up on Armslist and got an e-mail from a guy who offered $575.

    I said, sure, let's meet.

    So we meet, and he doesn't have a permit to carry or a permit to purchase (required by state law for dealer transfers, required by me personally for personal sales as a matter of due diligence in making sure the buyer is eligible to possess).

    He says he works for DHS, and I basically say "Cool, where's your permit?"

    And he says it's on his tac vest at home.

    I shrug and say, well, let's meet tomorrow and remember to bring it this time.

    This morning I get an e-mail that says he's not going to buy the gun because he's a cop and they don't need to have a permit, and he "doesn't feel comfortable buying from someone who doesn't know the law."

    To the best of my knowledge, there is no exemption from the permit requirement in state law. I am a CCW instructor and have both thoroughly and repeatedly read our state laws on carry and purchase of handguns and taken a Criminal Code class.

    So I sent him a nice little e-mail telling him that there is no permit requirement for ANY private sale in MN, but that I require it personally, and that he never identified himself as a sworn law enforcement officer and I wouldn't have cared if he had.

    Now he's all squirrelly and I've lost a sale, which I needed to make a purchase myself this weekend.

    >.<

    Anybody else got fun Armslist stories?
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  2. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    While I understand where you're coming from, someone asking for more than the law requires might just nix a deal with me, too. Especially if you weren't completely up front about that prior to me driving all the way out to meet you.

    One main reason a lot of folks have for going with private sales in the first place is to get out from under the nanny state scrutiny (and even your own personal facsimile of it). Getting all the way to the meeting place and finding out the seller still wants "your papers please" is a little infuriating.

    (Of course if you did tell him ahead of time, it's his mistake. He should have bailed on your deal when you listed your demands).

    At any rate, I'd sure not be calling him an idiot.
     
  3. InkEd

    InkEd Member

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    I'm sure there are a few.
     
  4. au01st

    au01st Member

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    Did you list in the ad that you would be requiring a permit?


    Sold a rifle a few months ago. After numerous pictures and e-mail exchanges we agreed on a price and meeting location/time. Got there, he looked it over and asked if I would take $20 less than the agreed upon price. I said no thanks, closed the case and started to load it up. He asked if I was really going to lose the sale over just $20, and I said that it was on principle. He said OK, he would purchase at the agreed upon price. I said that the price was now $20 higher. He said that wasn't fair. I asked if he was really going to let the rifle go over just $20 (pretty much verbatim on how he said it when he tried to lower the price).

    I used the extra $20 to treat myself to lunch. No permit required for long guns in my state, and if this person was a felon, not sure a Marlin Model 60 would be their first choice.
     
  5. wtr100

    wtr100 Member

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    there was a huge to-do in NE IL where the police were tryint to run a sting using Armslist. The police got upset when their mark wouldn't bite

    Extra care when going through ArmsList these days is in order
     
  6. morcey2

    morcey2 Member

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    Before ksl.com (local tv station with formerly awesome classfieds) shut down their guns and ammunition section, I was looking to see if there was anything interesting for sale. While searching for mausers, I saw an awfully familiar-looking gun for sale. It was my gun sitting on my couch. It was a picture that I had taken of it when I bought it to post on a couple of milsurp collectors sites.

    After I contacted him and, while playing dumb (which comes quite naturally for some reason), asked him about the rifle and verified that he was semi-local, he wanted to meet me at my house to complete the transaction. He was very curious about other guns I might have. Contacted the local police and talked to them about it. They didn't want to commit anything to it at the time, but one of them called the seller to set up a meeting on his end with the intention of passing the info on to the police up there. He wouldn't meet in a store parking lot, which is what I usually do, but insisted on coming to the buyers home. Something must have spooked him because he quit answering his phone after that. I did like his description of the rifle. It sounded much better than the one in the picture. :)

    I notified ksl about it and they took down his ads and seem to have closed his account, but nothing else came of it. If he went to the address that the officer gave him, he would have showed up at an alfalfa field in the middle of no where.

    The only other one was when I met up with a guy to look at a mosin and one of my former co workers, who I introduced to shooting some years earlier, showed up at the same time to buy a soviet SKS from the same seller.

    There is pretty solid evidence that Bloomberg et. al. were targeting the ksl classifieds to try to conduct questionable transations to push their agenda. I don't think this was one of those because they're usually on the buying end, not the selling end.

    Matt
     
  7. Reloadron
    • Contributing Member

    Reloadron Member

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    My thinking on this runs exactly with that of Sam1911. Unless you wanted to keep some form of personal record of the transaction why ask for more than is required by law for your location? If you want a detailed record of the transaction transfer to a FFL and let them deal with it.

    @au01st

    Since the price was agreed upon I can understand your point. If someone is selling a gun, be it arms list or another source and they are firm on price it should be so stated. You did just that based on your post. However, I did buy a rifle last year where the seller was asking $975. I looked at the gun and offered $900 which the seller was free to take or leave. The seller took the $900 and I took my new rifle home.

    Ron
     
  8. HOOfan_1

    HOOfan_1 Member

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    Yeah, I haven't seen anything I would consider idiotic in either of those stories...

    Seems like both parties were unwilling to negotiate in either.

    Good old Rashomon effect I guess
     
  9. Blackstone

    Blackstone Member

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    While it may be asking for more than the law requires, a bit of diligence in who you sell to surely should be encouraged. It's not like he intends to keep a record. I do hope the OP did mention beforehand that he would want to see a carry permit.
     
  10. au01st

    au01st Member

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    Really? I consider giving up an extra $20 to be idiotic, but they say a fool and his money are soon parted. And I didn't say there was no negotiation, there was beforehand. I came down on the money and kept some of the accessories I had originally listed, so the price was agreed upon after the buyer got all the pictures he desired. There was nothing called out on the gun at the time of the meeting, just him showing up with cash hoping I'd take less.

    I guess I misread the term "goofy" and "fun". That's the only real story I have where I didn't just show up, make the exchange, make small talk, and part ways.
     
  11. ngnrd

    ngnrd Member

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    Unless there's an agreement to meet and discuss/negotiate, the terms of the sale should be agreed to before the meeting ever takes place.

    If you didn't tell him all of your "personal requirements" for the sale, it's not the buyer's fault the transaction didn't happen. If those terms were discussed before the meeting took place, and the buyer refused to meet those terms, too bad for them.
     
  12. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    I did mention in our e-mail chain (twice) that I needed to see a permit to purchase or to carry. Before we met at all.

    The first time we met, he said he actually did have it at home, he had just forgotten it.

    The e-mail came after that.

    And it wasn't like he'd driven halfway across the state. He lives in town and met me at his SO's place of business.

    And my terms are more than the law requires, yes, but I have yet to buy or sell from a private person in Minnesota over the course of maybe ten transactions in five years who did NOT need to see a permit, so it's not exactly unheard of.
     
  13. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    This... or did you at least tell him in your email that you were going to need a load of his personal information and documentation?
    You don't indicate so there, and if you didn't tell him to bring all of his papers, then I can't blame the guy for not wanting to see you again. It all could have been avoided had he known what he was in for before making the drive.

    --------------------------------------

    ETA: Ah, you posted while I was typing.
     
  14. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    Sounds like the guy was a goof.
     
  15. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    I am a little surprised that so many are hostile to what I consider due diligence in personal sales. Every transaction I've made with THR members in MN has been done the same way on my end or on theirs. *shrug*

    I did not make clear in the ad that I required a permit to purchase or carry. I did say that in the e-mails before we met, and have adjusted my Armslist postings to reflect that requirement.

    It's not as though I am photocopying his driver's license and permit information or even writing down his name. I just want to see that he is who he says he is and that he has a permit, which means he passed a NICS check. I consider that doing my part to abide by MN 624.7141, which forbids transfers to anyone whom you have reason to believe was denied a permit or is otherwise ineligable to possess a handgun or assault weapon.

    Now, if people want to say "Well, he never said he was a felon, and I don't recall seeing his face on a wanted poster" and call it good, that's their business, but I feel responsible for being a little more proactive than that.

    Fair enough. Edited.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  16. ngnrd

    ngnrd Member

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    I had to go back and re-read the thread. But, I still don't see any hostility in it. Sure, there are opinions and questions about what exactly happened. But the OP was a little ambiguous about the details.
     
  17. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    Zoogster once posted something very well that might be all I can add here for you...
    I realize that you feel that it is your responsibility, but I suppose that in other parts of the country buyers and sellers might look at it as nosy, overstepping, paranoid, NOYB, etc. rather than being 'proactive'.

    hth

    Mileage certainly varies.
     
  18. mrvco

    mrvco Member

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    Someone who claims to work for DHS not wanting to be ID'd...? :scrutiny:
     
  19. Bruno2

    Bruno2 Member

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    I personally don't understand why people trying to conduct a private sale are asking about papers and ID. Go put it in consignment at your LGS if you are not comfortable selling a gun to a private citizen or put on the ad that you are requiring an FFL transfer of the weapon.

    Yrs ago we used to be able to list firearms in our local newspaper classifieds. I had a guy call (back when I lived with my parents) about the gun when I was at school. My mother took the call and said he wont be here until after 4 pm. The guy calling about the gun exclaimed that "he needed it now!". My mom said we cant help you until after 4pm. So when I got home my mom told me the story. I thought to myself "I hope the guy doesn't call back b/c this is sounding a little shady". He never called back , but that was one of the only times I ever thought about grilling someone over before considering selling them a gun.
     
  20. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    You should read back through some of our threads about carrying guns in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol! As many states do have prohibitions against that, we often see that even the most sold-out "gunny" members here, who are from those states, are SHOCKED that anyone would do so, or would be opposed to laws prohibiting it.

    It's like they grew up under that regime, unconsciously adopted its views, and have never examined whether their fears are founded on logic or fact.

    Mention a couple of THR Mods sipping ales in a bar with guns on their hips and their heads are like to explode! :D
     
  21. holdencm9

    holdencm9 Member

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    So you didn't mention it in the ad, but you DID mention it in the emails (apparently twice) and he failed to bring it, says it's on his "tac vest" at home, and he also didn't bring any other credentials to show he is LEO. Then the next day drops a line about how he shouldn't need it because he is (allegedly) DHS/LEO, and doesn't feel comfortable buying from someone who doesn't know the law.

    Ha!

    Definitely seems sketchy. I don't think there is a p2p for law enforcement, seeing as how they wouldn't be in LE if they were prohibited to posses, but I would expect some kind of creds. Otherwise they are just blowing smoke.
     
  22. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    Hmm, that's definitely a good point. I am not sure if I would ever feel comfortable selling a gun to a stranger with no permit to carry, but I definitely remember the massive debates about whether or not CCW should be allowed in churches or bars or liquor stores, and it was surprising how many CCW advocates thought the answer should be "no" at first.

    Minnesota is a very liberal place, and the gun rights laws we do have are both fairly recent and hard-won.

    I was already a little hinky about this guy because he wouldn't really say what he did for DHS, and he said he was interested in my Beretta as a new duty gun. I am not aware of any sworn and armed positions with DHS where you can just pick a new gun and carry whatever you want, so that was a little weird. But I figured maybe he was some sort of contractor armed guard working with DHS for something- for which he would have needed a permit to carry anyway.

    Then he flat-out claimed he was a DHS federal law enforcement officer, but he couldn't tell me what secret squirrel stuff he did.

    Also, he had a plain Uncle Mike's duty rig with him, but none of the usual accoutrements thereof- an empty double mag pouch, empty cuff pouch, empty ASP holster, empty pepper spray holder.

    Honestly saying he worked for DHS wouldn't have made me wonder, but all the goofy little details that he kept telling me but not telling me made me wonder if all his claims were on the level.

    Lying about what you do for a living doesn't mean I won't sell you a gun, but it didn't seem to add up to me.

    I think the obvious reason I didn't want to put it on consignment was because I actually wanted it to sell sometime in the near future and get more than half my money back out of it. I have no problems working outside an FFL, but I just don't feel comfortable selling to a total stranger with no permit, especially one who tells me stories that I find very hard to believe.

    Again, private sellers requiring a permit to purchase or carry is almost de rigeur in MN, so I guess it just never occurred to me that would bother someone. If I wanted to do it that way myself, I certainly wouldn't be capital-letter-e-mail offended if someone asked for it anyway.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  23. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Well, based on all that, I wouldn't be real broken up about it falling through. :)
     
  24. doc2rn

    doc2rn Member

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    So based on your supposition, because I dont have a CCW because I have moved three times in 4 yrs, I shouldn't be able to do a F2F transaction?:barf::scrutiny::cool::confused::eek:
     
  25. BemidjiDweller

    BemidjiDweller Member

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    :banghead::banghead::banghead:
    Please, tell me your name/company so I know to never go to one of your classes. MN has a Permit To Carry, not a CCW. You should know that if you "have both thoroughly and repeatedly read our state laws on carry and purchase of handguns and taken a Criminal Code class".
    :cuss:
     
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