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Got an FAL, seems like a good rifle but I think I hate it?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by handloader357, Mar 6, 2013.

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  1. Andrew Leigh

    Andrew Leigh Member

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    Love the bagpipes, can be especially moving during military organized events.
     
  2. Andrew Leigh

    Andrew Leigh Member

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    Did some special ops in Rhodesia, a wonderful place and wonderful people. I have very fond memories of my time there. Still do business in the now Zimbabwe.
     
  3. Hopkins

    Hopkins Member

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    I noticed mention of a DSA float tube for a FAL. Do you feel that it makes a significant contribution to the gun's accuracy when different point of rest are used on the guns forearm?
     
  4. Robert

    Robert Moderator Staff Member

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    It is not a free float tube in the true sense of the term. It clamps to the thick part of the barrel just forward of the receiver. Though one could argue that that is the perfect place to clamp it of one must clamp to the barrel. Though I do imagine it should help improve the accuracy. I have only shot my from the bench and only enough to get zeroed. The first match is on the 24th so I will report back then.

    It is much larger around and looks to offer better cooling properties than the stock hand guards.
     
  5. -v-

    -v- Member

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    Robert: Keep us posted. This thread has made me want a FAL as well, edging out getting another AR-10. I'm curious what sort of average accuracy one can expect with a FAL. <2 MOA?
     
  6. Robert

    Robert Moderator Staff Member

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    Average is 2-3 moa. They are not bench rest, super accurate rifles. They are field accurate, hit what I want at just about any reasonable range, tough as nails combat rifles. The AR10 will be more accurate and will have more aftermarket support. But it lacks the soul.
     
  7. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    The FAL will not displace my AR-10 carbine, but is definitely a favorite. I just acquired a DSA para carbine, now just have to add the extreme duty scope mount, cheek pad, SAW grip, extended mag release and a custom folding charging handle:

    FALAR-10_zps4a292e95.jpg

    (Sorry for the pic quality; quick snap, and I think the lens is dirty)

    $1,200 might get you a century gun or some cobbled together thing. Think more like $2k for a good rifle. DSA rifles start at about $1,800.
     
  8. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    <sigh> And to think that only a dozen years ago new semi-auto Imbel receivers could be had for ~$200 and excellent-condition FAL "Parts Kits" for ~$150.
     
  9. Robert

    Robert Moderator Staff Member

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    Yup I got my kit for something like $150 but by the time I got around to it the Imbel receivers had all dried up so I went with a DSA.
     
  10. shuvelrider

    shuvelrider Member

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    005-1_zps152fdb1b.gif

    Been enjoying mine, traded a used Winchester Mod 71 for it. Just put on a Elcan Specter scope I brought home from Afghanistan recently.

    001-2_zpsf865d172.gif

    4 in the chest and 1 in the head at 200m after a quick sight-in.
     
  11. jamesbeat

    jamesbeat Member

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    When I lived in the UK, I had a deactivated Stg 58 (Austrian FAL).
    It was really well made, but it was HEAVY!
    I liked it, and it would have been great as a range rifle (well, if it wasn't deactivated :D) but I don't imagine it would be pleasant to be a soldier and having to carry the thing around all day. It was also very long!
    The Austrian version may be heavier than its brethren because it has a steel front handguard and a substantial built in bipod, but even taking that into account, it was still a long, heavy rifle. More like a light machine gun.
    Ergonomics of the controls etc seemed ok though...
     
  12. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    The FAL isn't any heavier than a typical .308 battle rifle, ranging from 7.75 lbs (AR-10 flat top carbine) to about 10 lbs (HK G3). My Para carbine weighs 9.97 lbs with a loaded 20 round mag (150 gr. ball ammo).

    The rifles themselves aren't that much heavier than their 5.56mm counterparts; it's the ammo that makes for a heavy load out.
     
  13. lykoris

    lykoris Member

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  14. ol' scratch

    ol' scratch Member

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    I shoot both AR 15 rifles and FAL's. I like them both. The gas system on the FAL is adjustable and is battle proven. It also allows you to tune the system and in the case of my DSA STG 58 can be locked out and used as a straight pull bolt action rifle. The system allows you to shoot ammunition from many different parts of the world without damage to the system. It also allows you to use different powders when reloading. The M1A doesn't allow you to do that and it is pressure sensitive. You can bend the op rod on an M1a if you don't watch the pressure of the load you are working with.

    Given some problems I have read with the AR 10 and like rifles in the price range of the DSA FAL, it seemed a better choice for me. Also the magazines are the same for metric FAL rifles. If you have a Century, the same mags work for the DSA. Surplus mags can still be found and they won't break the bank. The AR platform in the larger round has no standard magazines.
     
  15. ol' scratch

    ol' scratch Member

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    Wow that is funny. Your beloved M1A uses a cast receiver that is made in Australia. DSA makes thier rifles in the United States on a forged steel receiver made in the USA, actually in Illinois. Their barrels are 4150 OG steel and also made in the USA. They make 100 percent rifles over here and some that use surplus parts on their receivers and barrels. The AR-10 is the old Eagle Arms company and will sell firearms to New York LEO's that civilians can't own. That means I don't buy their product anymore. It also uses a magazine that is specific only to the AR10 and is VERY expensive. If you had said something more constructive like an M1A that is match tuned or the AR10 are more accurate, I could stand behind that. Please educate yourself sir.
     
  16. B!ngo

    B!ngo Member

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    This. Or rather, none of the things you list seem like real show-stoppers to me. You will be able to accomodate those variances from other rifles in short order.
    The real question is 'how does it shoot?'. When I saw the name of the thread, I thought I would be reading about only modest levels of accuracy (more specifically, 'repeatability'), the heavy recoil, the damaged cases landing in far-flung places.
    What's with that stuff, because that isn't 'getting-used-to' kinds of stuff?
    B
     
  17. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    None of my FALs suffer from either of these issues. I have the gas (properly) adjusted so that the cases are deposited (almost) right beside me, undamaged.

    What you have described sounds like a case of WAY too much gas being ported.
     
  18. thump_rrr

    thump_rrr Member

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    Most combat rifles do not have adjustable gas systems for a reason.
    The ammunition and rifles are built to spec. to compliment each other.

    As civilians we do not have to conform to such constraints and can purchase or load ammo to suit our own needs.

    I wish I could own a FAL in Canada or an AK for that matter.
    The only one of the rifles you were looking at that I could purchase and take out to shoot anywhere would be the Springfield. The AR 10 is a restricted firearm which means range use only and the FAL is Prohibited.
     
  19. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

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    Most of them don't have it for several reasons. The reason you listed plus they consider the servicemen that carry them too dumb to adjust them properly and disposable junk has become more and more a part of the firearms world. An adjustable gas system is an expensive to manufacture addition.
     
  20. BruceB

    BruceB Member

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    At least in the Canadian Army, the VERY FIRST thing they taught in our initial live-fire day on the range, was how to properly set the gas regulator.

    It's dead simple, and as long as the ammunition supply is unchanged, needs almost no attention beyond normal cleaning.
     
  21. handloader357

    handloader357 Member

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    Update: I love this thing! :)

    Thanks for all the positive feedback! Had a great time @ the range!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2013
  22. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Good to hear! They're nice rifles, second only to the AR-10 for me, and not by a big margin.

    Get an optic on it, you'll find it even more agreeable. DSA's mounts are really nice, but if you don't want to spend that much, the Aim Sports mount ($40 on Amazon) is also well made. Just got one for my para. I had to do extensive modification due to the para's bolt & spring arrangement, but it should be a drop-in part for you with your fixed stock.

    Aim_Sports_FN-FAL_Picatinny_Scope_Mount.jpg

    Oh, and most people seem to prefer the SAW grip to the stock one. I certainly do.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2013
  23. Ash

    Ash Member

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    Regarding Adjustable Gas Systems, most combat rifles are designed for combat and the men who carry them. The more complexity the more likely a problem will occur. Complexity is the enemy of reliability.

    I own adjustable gas-system rifles. They make it easier to select different loads. But, a combat rifle is designed to fire a certain range of combat rounds designed around certain specifications anticipated in combat. Nations go through phases in auto design, and except for the US, most adopted adjustable gas systems at one point or the other. The Soviets were the first, and they discarded it when they stopped making the SVT-40. It returned a generation later in the SVD - but that rifle was always to be issued to a more competent shooter rather than a conscript - most of whom never held a firearm in their life. The Belgians with the FAL and its pappy did, obviously, as did the Egyptians with their Hakim adaptation of the Ljungman (yes, they did issue the SAFN prior to the Hakim).

    Now, virtually nobody issues a combat rifle with the feature anymore because its advantages were outweighed by its negatives. Sure, cost is one of them, but what that says is any advantage conveyed by the system could not overcome the added cost of the system.

    We desktop warriors might have a greater use for it, but not having it is not so major an issue, either. My M14's seem perfectly fine without it, and my NDM-86 has never seen it adjusted. When I owned FAL-type rifles, all of which I really enjoyed, I found I never messed with the gas systems on them. Ditto for the two SVT-40's I have owned. I did play with the system on a Hakim I once owned, but found it adjusted back to the setting it had when I bought it.
     
  24. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    Here's my DSA PARA with a DSA ED scope mount, Seekins rings and a Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x20mm with the special purpose reticle (SPR). I used a mill to remove the back four or five lugs on the Picatinny rail so that I could get the scope as close to the receiver as possible. I used Cerakote to paint the exposed aluminum. The scope is perfect where it is with no need to add a cheek riser. I'm going to order the SAW grip and "free float" forend from DSA.

    dsa_sa58_para_01.jpg

    dsa_sa58_para_02.jpg
     
  25. handloader357

    handloader357 Member

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    Took your advice and headed over to Amazon, as luck would have it I had a $35 credit with Amazon that I had forgotten about. So for 5 bucks the mount is on it's way. I have a cheap BSA 3x-9x scope rattling around in the basement I'll put on it right away. If I like the "feel" of an optical sight I'll probably invest in something nicer with a range finder type reticle. Already picked up extra mags (before that wonderful bill our worthless governor just signed kicks in), the stock/gas tube tool and the handguard undermount rail from DSA. This is turning out to be quite a fun project.
     
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