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Got ripped off on first gun purchase -- how to proceed?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Yosemite Sam, Feb 12, 2009.

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  1. Yosemite Sam

    Yosemite Sam Member

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    I bought my first gun ever right around Christmas 2008. Got a great deal on it -- much cheaper than a lot of other places. I couldn't believe my ears when I got the price quote on the phone. I had to call back and go "Is it used?" He said "Brand new!"

    Here's my e-mail to Kahr today:

    And here's their response:


    What do I do? If I make the 1.5 hour drive back to the gun shop, can I expect them to man up, apologize for lying to me, and give me a free magazine? They're $40 each...
     
  2. Yosemite Sam

    Yosemite Sam Member

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    Pictures help. This isn't my gun but it shows the 6 round mag on the right and 7 round mag on the left:

    police0905_1.jpg

    Here's mine:

    Photo0122.gif

    That little scratch at the very front of the trigger guard was already there.
     
  3. J Lambs

    J Lambs Member

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    You're right, that is a great deal. In NC, those run $600 +. I would call first, before I drove that far.
     
  4. VictorySong

    VictorySong Member

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    You got a good deal because he likely sold the mag. OR it could be used AND you got screwed out of a mag. :( I would call first before anything.
     
  5. JH225

    JH225 Member

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    Actually, whoever you spoke to at Kahr, needs a better grip on their company.

    Myself and a friend both purchased factory test guns a couple of years ago and they both came with only the 6 round mag.

    New is not always NEW.

    You got a great price for a reason.
     
  6. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Member

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    If the gun is in 'like new' condition & the only gripe is the possible missing magazine, is it worth the 1.5 hrs(one way?) drive & your time? It sounds like you got a good deal. It's a little easier to call them the day after you buy it than 6 weeks later. I'm not saying to do nothing but I've seen bigger things to get worked up about.
     
  7. SMMAssociates

    SMMAssociates Member

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    Yosemite Sam:

    Stuff happens - just because you didn't get the extra mag doesn't mean it's not a new gun.... It MAY have been a shelf gun at the dealer's, though, and sometimes "extra parts" get lost. I have a little Para here that was supposed to come with a tube of lubricant, and didn't. I had a heck of a time finding out what I needed until I finally asked....

    Another gun came with one reduced capacity (10 rounds) and one full capacity (13 rounds) magazine. I got it home and found out that I'd been shorted one full cap magazine. The dealer verified the problem, and decided that the distributor had messed up. I got the extra mag in a week or so.

    I did have to drive back there a couple times, but Amy was working there then, and worth the drive :D.... My wife wouldn't let me keep her, though. Neither would her husband....

    What was happening in the latter case was that the factory box only had room for two magazines, and due to the Clinton AWB, they'd been packing either two reduced cap magazines, or one of each, with the extra full cap just rubber-banded to the box. Open the box and the extra mag can take a hike....

    I don't remember if I called or not - the place is only about fifteen minutes away, and, as I mentioned, Amy.... :D Para mags were about $50 then.

    I also should add that the dealer in question is a friend, and his sister used to teach my daughter in Sunday School. No "character" issues - i.e., no doubt that I didn't get the missing magazine, or that they'd treat me right. It would have been simple to say that "the offer ended on xx/xx/xx"....

    (The lubricant's another story.... Probably fell out somewhere along the line. I'm not sure it was in the manual. My contact at Para said that they were putting a sample tube of the stuff in the box with all their stainless guns. NBD - I buy a lot of other stuff from Brownells :D.... TW25B....)

    Another thing to think about - since the missing mag is $20-$30, given the price of gas, and whether or not you've been ripped, did you save enough to justify forgetting about this? I would be a lot more careful with that dealer, but it's not enough to lose their address if you otherwise like them.

    Regards,
     
  8. Yosemite Sam

    Yosemite Sam Member

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    Thanks, this helps. I thought "all" guns were test fired, not some. But if it's standard practice for test-fires to just come with the regular mag, that's fine with me.

    Well I asked them right at the counter that it was weird that there was an empty space in the box for the extended mag, and the guy turned around and goes "Well you can buy one for $40!" I just didn't think much of it at the time. But I kept reading that they're supposed to come with 2, so I kinda wondered if I got sold a used gun.

    I'm not complaining about having to buy the mag myself, just thought it was supposed to come with it in the first place.

    Yep shelf gun. I watched him remove it from the cabinet and box it up.

    $40 + shipping. Was my first time at that dealer. I called almost every Kahr dealer in Missouri and none had an MK9 or MK40 so found this dealer in Kansas.


    And yeah, I can live with it and I'm not TOO worked up over it. Was just my first time buying experience...
     
  9. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    Sounds to me like they discounted it because of the missing mag.

    Maybe the guy at the counter didn't know that (since he's probably just a peon that doesn't set prices and such).

    But with a little hunting you can definitely find a replacement mag for less than $40. Buds has 'em for under $30 (of course the only one they DON'T have listed is the one you need, but you could get one of the 8 rounders instead, that little bit of grippy thing on the MK and K-Covert mags really doesn't do squat (I've owned both an MK9 and MK40).
     
  10. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    So you bought it sometime in December of last year (for a pretty nice price) and you're just now getting upset about the lack of a second magazine?

    Sorry, but that's something that should have been dealt with at the time of purchase, or shortly (a fee weeks, max) afterwards.

    As others have said, there are a number of reasons why you might not have gotten the second mag. It could have been purposeful deceit, or just an innocent mistake. No way to tell.
     
  11. tkaction

    tkaction Member

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    I thought all guns were factory test fired, or are you saying it was a factory test gun? I dont want it if the factory has not tested for function with live ammo. I have seen factory new, both with 1 and 2 mags always depending on price. Some deals are a promotion.
     
  12. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    I'm really confused, are you a dual state resident or did they ship it to a Missouri FFL for you?
     
  13. Mainsail

    Mainsail Member

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    Many gun dealers will remove the third magazine (usually a "police package" gun) and sell it separately. In other words, you get two and he keeps one to sell. It sounds like your dealer is doing that with the extra magazine. If I recall correctly, they are supposed to come with two.
     
  14. scottgun

    scottgun Member

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    The time to complain about items not included with the firearm are when you are purchasing it, not 2 month later. Why would the dealer believe you now that the extra mag wasn't included.

    I have had the experience with gun dealer who didn't include the extra mag or accessories, but then include them when I asked. Some gun dealers are are par with used car salesmen.


    You got the gun for a great price, I'd chalk it up to lessons learned. Use the money you saved to by a spare mag.
     
  15. viperstarbuck

    viperstarbuck Member

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    Kinda got screwed, but i'd just take my lesson and be much more careful and thorough next time.
     
  16. SMMAssociates

    SMMAssociates Member

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    tkaction:

    At one time, all guns were shipped with a couple of casings from a test-firing, due to some stupid State requirements here and there.... I'm not sure if this is still the situation or not, but I've run into more than one guy who got one that'd not been cleaned thereafter.

    I doubt if anybody (gotta say "but High Point" :D) ships one that's not been test fired a couple times. The cost of "recovery" - getting the gun back, fixing it, etc., is many times higher, I would think, than if you find out before it ships the first time. Still, I tell new buyers to put three round in each magazine and see what happens, safely, before loading up....

    BTW, if the gun was test fired, that has nothing to do with the extra mags. However if you hang around "here" (or M1911.org, etc.) you'll run into guys who go ballistic because their brand new gun had been fired. Getting them to realize that the factory pretty much had to can be fun. They're not necessarily cleaned....

    IMHO, if a semi's got less than about 100 rounds through it, most of us wouldn't be able to tell. (You can see it on some revolvers if the thing has been dry fired! The cylinder latch in the bottom of the frame wears a little groove in the cylinder real fast....) With a couple of exceptions (guns I'm really familiar with), I know I couldn't.... I bought one a few years ago that was "old stock but NIB". It probably was - the grips were worn from contact with other guns on the shelf (he changed his storage methods since), and it was a little dirty (never cleaned after test firing), but other than a minor cosmetic defect, none of the usual wear point issues were present. Some of them are there now :D....

    Cosmetic defect: the cutter that puts the notch in the slide for the thumb safety hit the slide a couple times before it should have. Nasty, sharp edges that were a bear to beat down. I could have returned it, but this gun was sort of one-of-a-kind, in that the model was out of print, but otherwise exactly what I wanted. Finding another one may have taken longer than polishing down those burrs.... Was I the first non-dealer owner? Sure looks like it.... There's a pic of the Kimber slide with the extra notches at: http://tinypic.com/f4422x.jpg.

    Meantime, my buddy bought a not-quite-new EMP the other month. Apparently the original purchaser put a dozen or so round through it and decided he didn't want it. Or his wife found out :D.... No way to tell, other than the price tag. It DID have a problem, btw. Tight chamber didn't like my buddy's reloads until he bought a new sizing die. Ran fine with my "you bought what?" stuff.... Former Glock casings show some unsupported areas in the case that bulge out a bit, and the EMP wouldn't feed 'em. His other 9mm didn't care.

    And, yes, sometimes the presence of that second mag is a promotion.... If the outer packaging materials (sometimes not present) says "comes with two magazines", it's, well, a scam.... In my case, the deal I mentioned earlier was on the web site, and later confirmed by the dealer. He didn't have to....

    Finally, a "warranty" story.... Many years ago, I was active on the old WordStar forum on CompuServe. One day we had a guy check in: "Your program WRECKED my printer!" (Bear in mind that everybody there was a volunteer or "civilian".)

    After a bit of chat, we found out that whenever he'd print a WordStar document on a pre-printed form, the form he'd been printing on kept repeating on the next few pages.... Even more chatting later, we found out that he was creating the "forms" somehow, and then using a COPIER to make additional copies. When those ran through his laser printer, the toner from the copier had a different melting point, and would stick to the printer's rollers until it eventually wore off.... The laser printer's toner wouldn't do that.... It wore off by being transferred to the paper.... :D

    (Sam: This isn't a dig at you.... Just thought that if you were feeling a little confused, this'd give you a kick - there are always others out there who can usually beat you!)

    Regards,
     
  17. stolivar

    stolivar Member

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    you only get one mag with a MK9

    enough said.



    steve
     
  18. ThrottleJockey

    ThrottleJockey member

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    NavyLT, you do not have to be a resident of a state to purchase there. You can purchase from adjoining states also.
     
  19. JH225

    JH225 Member

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    Not test fire, test gun. As in more than just a couple of rounds. There were a bunch of these Kahr's around a couple of years ago. Highly discounted at time of sale.
     
  20. JWF III

    JWF III Member

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    Personally that is an easy question to answer for me. You saved around $100-$125 on the purchase price of the gun. 3 hours, of my time, driving (1.5 each way) is worth more than $40 to me. Add gas on top of that (~60 miles one way= 120 miles/~20mpg=6 gallons x ~$2/gal=) $12. So time and gas come to ~$75. I'd gladly let him off, especially since I saved that much on the gun.

    BTW, though it's not a Kahr, Midway has (7 round) ProMags in stock for $22.50. I'd get a few of those.

    When did this change? (Or I could've always been wrong, but please inform me.) I've always been under the impression that Out-of-State purchases were fine for long guns. But that you had to be a resident to purchase handguns. Like I said this is what I've always been told, so never tried to buy handguns OoS. Please educate me on when it changed. Or have I always been wrong?

    Wyman
     
  21. Red Tornado

    Red Tornado Member

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    You're not wrong. I'm on the Arkansas border and can buy long guns, but not pistols. I'm curious how he purchased it in Kansas also.
    RT
     
  22. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    1. All the "adjoining state" or "contiguous state" requirements are gone, done away with in a 1986 amendment to the 1968 Gun Control Act.

    2. Any state that has laws stating something like "purchases are allowed in contiguous states", now mean, according to BATFE in their August 2004 newsletter to FFL's, "allowed in any state". However, it is still in 18 USC 922 (b)(3) that only applies to long guns purchased from FFL's in person with the FFL.

    3. ANY out of state private party transaction is still illegal except for inheritance and temporary loaning. ANY out of state handgun transaction is still illegal, whether or not conducted with an out of state FFL. Hanguns may only be received from out of state sources by an FFL in the recipient's state.

    4. The out of state sale of a long gun by an FFL is only prohibited if either the buyer or seller's state law actually specifically PROHIBITS the sale.
     
  23. axeman_g

    axeman_g Member

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    You got screwed out of a mag. It happens... There is a guy in Atlanta that was one of the only people in USA selling CZs.. he would advertise as coming with only one mag, even though CZ ships ALL guns with two mags. He would sell the gun for $25+ less anyone else, pull a mag out of the box, then sell the second magazine to anyone or even ask you, the buyer if you wanted additional mags. I got caught in it on my first CZ85C... caught onto it about two weeks later. Next time I bought I CZ, I asked to verify that both mags were in the box.

    Lesson learned... you still got a great deal.
     
  24. Prion

    Prion Member

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    When I bought my AR the dealer threw in a free 30 round mag because the rifle I bought only included a 10 rounder and he knew I wanted a 30. I would have paid for it but he knows how to cultivate good customer relations. I only buy from him now and always get great advice and good prices. Pays to cultivate good relationships for both buyer and seller.
     
  25. CWL

    CWL Member

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    Mine came with only one magazine (7 rd). It was NIB from a distributor.

    Maybe I got ripped-off, but I only paid $400 for mine...
     
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