Great Britain Shotgun Certificate question

[orpington]

Meaning Great Britain & Northern Ireland—e.g., the United Kingdom. First, does this 2006 thread need updating?

Great Britain- A Firearms Overview

This came from cybershooters.org and should give all you guys in the US an idea of the path you could be on. The law in GB relating to firearms is a five-tier system of control: 1) Unregulated guns - those not subject to any restriction, which includes toy guns, replica guns, blank-firing...

www.thehighroad.org

And, from this thread, it states the following:

“The police will inspect the applicant's storage to make sure that it is secure. Certificates are granted with certain prescribed conditions, the main one being that the guns to which they relate must be kept securely.”

My question—what’s the definition of “secure/securely”? I should think it to be a safe, but perhaps not? What about a cabinet with glass doors? Or, in an arc pattern, numerous shotguns, on a wall in a great hall? I ask this as I saw such a pattern in Downton Abbey, I believe it was Shrimpie’s castle in Scotland. Of course, that was period, 1912 to 1925, but is such storage allowed today? Or even shotguns on the racks at Audley House/Purdey’s, how is that allowed?

I also found this interesting:

“The police must be satisfied that no good reason exists for refusing the grant of a certificate, and that the applicant is not a person prohibited from possessing firearms (generally, a person of intemperate habits or unsound mind, or a person who has been imprisoned for more than three months in the last five years or who has ever been imprisoned for more than three years).”

I think in this country, (the States/USA), ANY imprisonment disqualifies you from firearms ownership.

What, ultimately, dictates the ability to even own firearms at all, as we have the Second Amendment, and what exists in the UK?

 

[Scooter22]

Well that thread got closed. What matters in the UK or it's subjects has nothing to do with the USA. We tossed them out almost 250 years ago. In the US a felony usually has restrictions on gun ownership. But if your in a certain class you can be released even after gun crimes.... you know...... to commit more.... just because.... it's a "equtity" thing....

 

[orpington]

I think to clarify, could you hang shotguns on a wall in an arc/fan pattern legally today as depicted at Shrimpie’s castle in Scotland?

 

[Jim Watson]

No

 

[rust collector]

Here you go--the book on gun security in the UK. We'll expect a full report once you have completed it.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/firearms-security-handbook

 

[PzGren]

Research took no time ...


To store firearms in the UK, you must meet the following requirements:

• Gun safe
  The safe must be approved by the police and meet the British Standard BS7558:1992. It must be made of solid steel, have continuous welding, and be secured to a solid surface with a fixing bolt that requires at least 2kN of force to pull. The safe should also have modern locking mechanisms and access control.
  
  
  
• Location
  The safe must be in the main building of your home, out of sight of casual callers, and not in a garage or outbuilding. It should be secured to the property with bolts or joints to the floor or walls.
  
  
  
• Security
  The safe must be inaccessible to anyone without a license. You can use a biometric gun safe that uses fingerprint access to limit access to yourself.
  
  
  
• Ammunition
  Section 1 ammunition must be stored securely and separately from section 1 weapons.
  
  
  
• Home security
  The external security of your home should meet BS8220, which is the level of security required for home contents insurance cover.
  
  

The local police force will determine if your system is suitable, taking into account a number of factors, including the location of your home, crime rates, and the construction of the building.

 

[Odd Job]

“The police must be satisfied that no good reason exists for refusing the grant of a certificate, and that the applicant is not a person prohibited from possessing firearms (generally, a person of intemperate habits or unsound mind, or a person who has been imprisoned for more than three months in the last five years or who has ever been imprisoned for more than three years).”

It is more interesting than that.
There are two types of firearms certificates: a Section 1 and a Section 2.
Section 1 is for firearms such as a semi-auto .22, a .357 underlever, a .44 muzzle-loader, a bolt action .223 and any shotgun that has a cartridge capacity greater than 2+1. Suppressors, spare bolts and flash hiders are also on this list. Note that you can buy a suppressor that isn't for a Section 1 gun, over the counter in the UK. That means an air rifle suppressor or a shotgun suppressor if the shotgun is on a Section 2 FAC. And as long as the air rifle isn't Section 1 (has more than 12 foot/pounds energy at the muzzle)
Section 2 is for shotguns with a cartridge capacity no more than 2+1. The majority of these are O/U or S/S guns but there are many people with Section 2 pump action shotguns also.

This is the interesting part: there is a difference between how a Section 1 and a Section 2 FAC application is processed.

For a Section 1, you as the applicant have to justify why you want that certificate. Bear in mind that when you apply you are also specifying "slots" on the FAC which tell the police what calibre and action you are wanting to buy.
For example you could specify three .22 rifles on there if one is semi-auto, one is bolt and the other is pump-action. If you specify three of the same action (as a first application) you run into questions as to why you want three of the "same" gun and that's when you have to provide other info such as "one will have a red dot for 25 yard gallery shooting" and "one will have a scope for competition shooting at 50 yards" for example.
Also on that FAC will be stated the maximum number of cartridges of each calibre that you can hold at one time, and purchase at one time. A starting number might be 500 rounds. Competition shooters or people who do a lot of shooting usually get that number increased. For example I can purchase 5000 .22LR because I do batch testing with more than 10 suppressors.
In most cases there is no resistance to owning suppressors, in fact it is encouraged around here.

For a Section 2, the onus is on the police to prove why you can't have it. On that Section 2, you can own as many shotguns as you like and there is no limit to how many cartridges you you can purchase or hold.
You can buy as many suppressors as you like for those shotguns, right over the counter because suppressors for Section 2 guns and for non Section 1 air rifles are not regulated.

But none of this means you can hang an S1 or S2 firearm above the door at the farm or country mansion.

 

[jmorris]

I think in this country, (the States/USA), ANY imprisonment disqualifies you from firearms ownership.

I don't think that is the case, the 4473 asks about felony's or crimes where one could have been imprisoned for more than one year.

 

[lemaymiami]

One additional minor point about the UK's gun possession rules... Each year your permission to own a firearm has to be checked off on by your local constabulary.... and that means an inspection of your premises to verify your weapon(s) are properly kept and secure as well as a sign-off by your local constable -including a check of your police records for that period (family fights, etc. as well as the more serious criminal stuff...) - and if he (or she) declines to sign off you lose your permission (at least that's my take on it...). The authorities are serious about firearms owned by their subjects (and yes - they're not citizens). I was married in London 44 years ago now - and still have family on my wife's side there so I've paid a bit of attention. If this info is not valid -please correct me.

One of the very real differences I noted in their policing (as opposed to my own world as a cop in south Florida) is how the local constable really did know the neighborhoods they worked in as well as the folks who lived there... Whether that's still the case all these years later I have no idea. Definitely a different world from the one I knew..

 

[Odd Job]

The FAC gets renewed every 5 years. That's when they check your safe.
There's no mandatory check of a person's safe or firearm every year.
They CAN come a-looking if they have cause, but there's nothing automatic, at least not as regards the Metropolitan Police here in London.

 

[Speedo66]

The local police force will determine if your system is suitable, taking into account a number of factors, including the location of your home, crime rates, and the construction of the building.

Forgot social standing, say a lord vs a factory worker. I have a feeling that might be a non spoken factor.

 

[orpington]

Forgot social standing, say a lord vs a factory worker. I have a feeling that might be a non spoken factor.

That’s what I was wondering. If you live in a country manor, like Lord Grantham (fictitious) does, are you given more leeway than if you live in the East End of London? Is King Charles III held to the same standards?

There’s a huge difference between Mayfair and Whitechapel. Chester and Milton Keynes, etc.

 

[Speedo66]

That’s what I was wondering. If you live in a country manor, like Lord Grantham (fictitious) does, are you given more leeway than if you live in the East End of London? Is King Charles III held to the same standards?

If you live in a country manor, I guess that says a lot about the neighborhood and house construction.

 

[Mk VII]

Sandringham has a gun room - a secure room rather than a cabinet can be an acceptable solution.

 

[orpington]

Sandringham has a gun room - a secure room rather than a cabinet can be an acceptable solution.

I was at Sandringham in 1994 and I seem to recall this.

Edit: I would be surprised if ANY of these country houses didn’t have a gun room—be it Sandringham, Balmoral Castle, Waddesdon Manor, Highclere Castle, etc.