Great, now we have to deal with this....

[Plinkin' Logs]

You might have heard about the protest in Phoenix, Arizona as over 1000 people gather in front of a mosque during a time that Muslim's conduct their Friday prayers.

The rally is said be "peaceful" excise of there 1st Amendment rights, but some participants will be wearing shirts saying "F*** Islam", as well as other potentially offensive slogans, and booing Muslims that enter the Mosque.

The event is said to be a continuation of the "draw Muhammad" event that took place in Texas weeks ago.

What does this have to do with THR?
On social media participants are urged "excise there second amendment right" in case their "first amendment rights come into jeopardy."

Granted it is there First Amendment right to protest. Just like those who protested at military funerals and neo-Nazi moment was allowed to parade through ethnically Jewish communities.

It is also granted they are allowed exercise there second amendment rights, that we care about greatly. However this depiction of 2nd Amendment rights, as a bunch of bigots does us no good, and puts us in, once again, a negative light in the media's eye.

 

[Plinkin' Logs]

I'll start with my personal perspective:
I am not Muslim. I did serve our country where we operated with the Kurdish Peshmerga, as well as many Sunni Muslims in rooting out Al'Qaeda. There are no soldiers I saw that were as friendly and fierce fighters as the Peshmerga, and I am told have a very good sense of humor.

All of the local Sunnis who I interacted with were very welcoming and offered to bring us water, and to join them for meals (of course we could not). I even remember one man waving a hand painted American flag. I don't speak any Arabic, but he seemed to happy to see us.

Anyway, before I become truly like an old fart and start regaling you old war stories. The way this group is using 1st Amendment as a shield to hate, and then trying to back up hateful intentions with the 2nd Amendment is just shoveling us defending the 2nd Amendment further in the whole. I have neighbors who are from Pakistan and attend their mosque regularly. They are good people and every bit as American as I am and a very proud of there American citizenship.

Bottom line, don't pull the 2nd Amendment into hateful demonstrations.

 

[ElevenBravo]

If these big bad bikers are so eager to exercise their Second Amendment rights, I'll be more than happy to help pay for their plane tickets to Iraq. They can host their little art compeitition and bleat about their First Amendment rights to their heart's content. It's about time these "outlaw bikers" contribute something productive to society.

There's stupid and then there's a special kind of stupid. Just because you have the right for something doesn't mean you have to exercise it, especially when you're doing it just to annoy someone off to the point where they do something stupid and you get to say "see? There's sekrit Mooslims in 'Murica!"

 

[Coop45]

Time for y'all to take your meds.

 

[JRH6856]

Anyone who has read The Killer Angels or seen the movie Gettysburg might remember these words from Buster Kilrain:

"Anyone who judges by the group is a pea wit. You take men one at a time."

 

[DeepSouth]

In any large group their will be conflicts, if you disagree with them then that's fine, if you agree with them that's fine to. I don't really see the connection to the majority of gun owners.

To answer your question "What does this have to do with THR? "
I'd say, not much of anything.

 

[HexHead]

The "2nd amendment" link is a reaction to the ISIS related attack to the art display in Texas. They just want to be ready to defend themselves should the need arise.

 

[MrBorland]

Activism is for specific actions you're taking on behalf of RKBA. The relevant portion of the rules are quoted below. Please visit and read the Activism Rules in their entirety.

This forum is dedicated to activism to promote the RKBA.

It is the place to share with others the tools, actions you have taken on behalf of RKBA, or to propose plans on behalf of RKBA.*

Activism is not a politics forum.

There's no place on THR for discussing how much you hate or love any particular politician or party or group. Endless hand wringing, howling or complaining about politicians and politics sap the power of the internet for change. Those threads will be removed as a violation of the terms of this forum and may earn the OP an infraction from temporary suspension to permanent suspension for knowing ignoring this prohibition.
.
.
.
In other words, this forum is not where little gets accomplished because of the endless bickering, and we’re not going to let it turn into that. This is a forum for those of you that actually want to get things done instead of talked to death.

 

[hso]

I'll move this to Activism Discussion and open it back up as long as people do NOT get wrapped up in the side discussion on religion.

Understand that Activism Discussion is a place to hammer out ideas, or plans of action. It is also a place to discuss forms of activism for the 2A and their strengths and weaknesses in restoring and protecting our 2A.

This isn't a place for partisan politics, whining, big philosophy or thread drift. Keep focused on constructive ideas to develop real plans to make real change in defending and restoring the Second Amendment.


In this particular case the situation where someone or some group wants to invoke the 2A as part of their separate agenda we might summarize as, "Any group invoking the 2A claiming they need to protect their 1A rights should be viewed with suspicion since those groups may make all gun owners look bad and does more harm to us than good."

 

[USAF_Vet]

I agree that this sort of behavior is antagonizing, provocative, dangerous and thinly veiled hate speech.

Targeting peaceful (or at least indifferent) Muslims in America is sending the wrong message to the wrong people. ISIS claims to have 70 some odd "operatives" in as many as 15 states. Well, we've got over 80 million gun owners, so I think the odds are currently in our favor if it ever comes to a shooting war.

I work with a lot of Muslims, most from Bosnia, but others from around the world as well.

I've never had a problem with any of them.

these so-called protesters need a reality check. Or maybe a plane ticket to Iraq to assist the Kurdish Peshmerga fighting the real bad guys.

 

[Kaeto]

At least they didn't try to pull this in Dearborn, Mi.

 

[stoky]

The "2nd amendment" link is a reaction to the ISIS related attack to the art display in Texas. They just want to be ready to defend themselves should the need arise.

+1
Rights are a lot like muscles, they need to be exercised to stay strong. Too often the First and Second Amendments are portrayed at odds.
I heard nothing about a protest. IIRC there was a cartoon contest planned. In their face?
meh
Cartoons shouldn't be justification for violence.

 

[MartinS]

"...antagonizing, provocative, dangerous and thinly veiled hate speech."

Just the kind of stuff that needs protection.

 

[hso]

The question here is whether it is good for the 2A movement to have these sorts of controversial events feature firearms. Is it good for us to have the 2A associated with people like Huey Newton's Black Panthers or Jon Ritzheimer and his followers?

***
stoky,

Not quite. The guy that organized the cartoon event in TX subsequently organized very briefly one in AZ using the cartoons and some pretty controversial and hostile signs and T-shirts in a protest across the street from a mosque in AZ on Friday. His facebook page encouraged people to bring their firearms as an expression of their 2A right to protect their 1A right. Think of this in the context of the Westboro Baptist protesters showing up at veteran funerals waving their signs but with firearms.


***
MartinS,

Yes, free speech, especially that which is not acceptable to the majority, does need to be protected from the government infringing upon it, but the 2nd isn't required to do that (since the Amendments are to restrain the Federal Government) typically. We've seen, and supported, the carry of firearms as part of protests against 2A infringements in many places across the country so we're more concerned with people invoking the 2A in non 2A events.

***

 

[Plinkin' Logs]

I was also personally concerned because I noticed at least 4 unsafe firearm handling practices in place as well. One man who was interviewed had a hammer fire semi-auto that he defined as a "9mm Luger pistol". He stated he had one in the chamber and clearly had it in the holster with the hammer cocked back. I also noticed several AKs which were also very obviously not on safe. And there was reports of multiple people illegal packing a concealed firearm without a CCW. Also I noticed very very poor muzzle discipline. This is not what we stand for.

 

[USAF_Vet]

I was also personally concerned because I noticed at least 4 unsafe firearm handling practices in place as well. One man who was interviewed had a hammer fire semi-auto that he defined as a "9mm Luger pistol". He stated he had one in the chamber and clearly had it in the holster with the hammer cocked back.

If it was a single action semi auto, like a Browning Hi Power, that's a perfectly acceptable way to carry. "9mm Luger" is also a correct term for the caliber for which the gun was chambered.

I also noticed several AKs which were also very obviously not on safe.

IF the chamber is clear, carry with the safety off on a long gun is perfectly acceptable as well. On the AR, with the chamber empty and the hammer released, you can't put the gun on safe. With an AK, an empty chamber and the safety on prevents you from manually chambering a round.

And there was reports of multiple people illegal packing a concealed firearm without a CCW.

Its Arizona. They have Constitutional Carry. These reports may have come from the Olivers in crowd. You know, the ones asking their Government "please sir, may I have some more?" instead of simply exercising their right to carry.

Also I noticed very very poor muzzle discipline.

You're going to get that with any large group of people. Gun shows are the worst, 2A demonstrations aren't much better, usually. Not a big surprise. Still not acceptable, but it happens.

This is not what we stand for.

Stirring the pot in hopes of getting to shoot a muzzie? No, it's not what we stand for.

 

[HexHead]

And there was reports of multiple people illegal packing a concealed firearm without a CCW.

Reports by whom? Obviously ignorant people who don't know the law. And how would they know if someone in a crowd has a CCW or not?

 

[X-Rap]

I guess I'd like to see people gathering for most anything while being armed. I want guns to be the norm be it at church, school, the county fair.
I'm frankly tired of the PC attitude pervasive in this country that persecutes one type of speech or action but encourages and even subsidizes the same speech or action from others.