Grouping Slightly Left?

[Scrod314]

Hello... When I went shooting yesterday, I noticed my groups are slightly left of where I'm aiming. I understand aim right to correct this, but does it mean I'm doing something fundamentally wrong if I'm grouping left?

 

[buck460XVR]

Depends on the firearm platform, the sight platform and if the ammo being used was properly zeroed before.

 

[Odd Job]

Is the group itself tight?
What gun and what sighting system is it?

 

[edwardware]

I understand aim right to correct this,

No.

. . does it mean I'm doing something fundamentally wrong if I'm grouping left?

Yes. Since you provided no detail whatsoever, we'll just have to presume. . .

Presuming you're a righty shooting a handgun, pushing left is a common flinch. Your sights could also be poorly adjusted.

Or any of half-dozen other things.

 

[nofendertom]

If you are right handed---don't forget trigger push when you squeeze the trigger.

 

[whughett]

With more than 45 years of pistol shooting, non-competitive, Weaver two hand hold, I’ve never been able to correct that. No matter the pistol, the caliber, fixed or adjustable sights, I’ll shoot slightly high slightly left groups. I chalk it up to some genetic anomaly, arm length, shoulders, maybe it’s due to my right leg is slightly longer than the left, who knows, it’s there.

 

[Outlaw75]

You may need to work on your trigger control. Most pistol diagnostic targets say this is "too little trigger finger". What that means is that if you're using the tip of your finger you may actually be pushing the pistol to the left when you engage the trigger. This can be corrected by moving the trigger finger farther into the trigger guard. The goal is to apply an even pressure to the trigger and not move the pistol from the point of aim. You can do this with dry-fire practice at home and will need to experiment to find the exact trigger finger placement you need as everyone's hands/arms/fingers/level of strength is different.

 

[triplebike]

Have you tried shooting from a sitting bench position with the firearm resting in a sand bag or something similar? If so then are your groups POA. If yes then it's you, if not then it's your firearm.

 

[JJFitch]

Analyzing POA/POI over the phone" is difficult.

Have someone with an Expert card shoot your gun. Same POI or different?

Light hitting the left side of the front sight may cause shots drifting left!

Irregular trigger press can cause shots drifting left!

Irregular stance can cause shots drifting to the left.

Irregular grip strength may cause shots drifting left.

Adverse reaction to recoil may cause shots drifting to the left.

Fatigue may cause shots drifting left.

Having an "Expert" coach will be able to assist in sorting out these "demons"!

Smiles,

 

[buck460XVR]

Analyzing POA/POI over the phone" is difficult.

Especially with the little bit of info given. No platform given. No info on ammo or whether the gun was even sighted in other than factory. Maybe a fixed sighted handgun? Maybe not? We need a lot more to go on than what has been given.

 

[wiscoaster]

...You can do this with dry-fire practice at home...

Yes. Watch your front sight alignment as you pull the trigger to see if the front sight is left or right of center after the trigger is pulled, and before you release it. If it's off center after pulling, then the problem is most likely finger placement, and follow the directions given in the quoted post.

I've noted that every handgun requires a different finger placement. It takes me a half dozen shots or so to get "warmed up" with a handgun I haven't shot in a long while. The warmup is to rediscover proper sight picture and proper trigger finger technique for that gun. Well, OK, sometimes maybe more than half a dozen, hah hah. If I were more diligent with dry-fire practice at home maybe I wouldn't be "wasting" that much ammo.

 

[lionking]

Hello... When I went shooting yesterday, I noticed my groups are slightly left of where I'm aiming. I understand aim right to correct this, but does it mean I'm doing something fundamentally wrong if I'm grouping left?

What kind of gun are you using? If it has adjustable sights then just adjust to satisfaction. If fixed sights usually you can drift a rear sight left or right.

BUT... maybe try different ammo and grains, look at my test targets with my CZ50 at 10 yards, I marked the targets 15 yards but it was 10 yards. Look how different ammo alone changed the impact area and group.
View attachment 942174
View attachment 942175
View attachment 942176

 

[LiveLife]

Hello... When I went shooting yesterday, I noticed my groups are slightly left of where I'm aiming.

I'm doing something fundamentally wrong if I'm grouping left?

When we pull/press with the trigger finger, we often/sometimes sympathetically move third, fourth and fifth fingers and if you are a right handed shooter, will push on the pistol grip to move point of impact (POI) to the left of point of aim (POA).

To test this, clear your pistol and dry fire while watching the front sight. Are you pushing the front sight when the hammer/striker is released? And at the range, place your target at 5-7 yards and align the sights on a small dot on target. Now close your eyes and fire and repeat several times shooting with eyes closed after sight alignment on the dot. Did POI deviate to left of POA? And are you doing that on a consistent basis?

And as Brian Zins explains at 2:00 minute of video below, your trigger control (Or lack of) could be moving the front sight to the left of POA just before bullet exits the barrel. We had a quite extensive and detailed discussion in ST&T on trigger control here - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/trigger-control.834737/page-3#post-11255509

"You can hold sight alignment and sight picture on your pistol all day long. When does it change?
When you move the trigger. Sights move. They are going to move. They have to move.

... No matter how big your hands ... strong you are ... death grip ... as soon as you apply force ... on this pistol, it's going to move"​

Note at 1:58 - 2:02 he says: "...there is no sense working on your stance, your position, your grip if you can't pull the trigger without disturbing the sights, so trigger control is key"

​

The stance/grip/pistol together is in a state of dynamic motion to counteract/compensate for trigger pull/press to keep sight alignment on Point of Aim (POA) so Point of Impact (POI) will occur at the same spot, regardless whether using two hands, one strong/weak hand, two fingers (thumb/middle finger), sighted/unsighted, slow-fire bullseye, or rapid-fire action pistol.

If the shooter does not apply consistent trigger control, regardless of the stance/grip used, muzzle/front sight of the pistol will move just before the bullet exits the barrel and POI will deviate from POA.
​

Now, if you are grouping left with just one pistol and the pistol has sufficiently broken in (trigger surfaces have smoothed out) and grouping is tight, you can drift the rear sight.

 

[daniel craig]

Loosen the grip with your left hand. A lot of people grip the bejeezus out of the pistol with their left hand. You don’t have to. Loosen up a bit and you’ll good to go.

 

[jmr40]

No one can give any meaningful advice unless we know what type of gun you're shooting. Lots of folks assuming a handgun, but the question should be in one of the handgun sub forums if it is a handgun. If you're consistently hitting left adjust the sights so you hit point of aim.

 

[Archie]

General rule: Handgun or rifle, if the groups are more or less oval on any axis, one is pushing or pulling the shot. Or possible something is loose on the firearm. (Could be sights, scope, scope mounts, action in stock and so forth. Usually it's the shooter.
Handgun or rifle, if the groups are more or less round, the sights need adjusting. Adjust in accordance with directions on sights, or for drift sights, rear sight in direction shots impacts are to go, front sight to align with shot impacts.

 

[Mal H]

No one can give any meaningful advice ...

You can stop right there. How can anyone give any meaningful advice when you don't know if it's a rifle, or a handgun, or a slingshot! We don't know whether it is on a benchrest or offhand. We don't know what type of sight is being used. We don't know the distance for the target or what "slightly" means. We don't know if the firearm shot perfectly in the past, but started shooting to the left recently. We don't know what he means by "grouping".

In other words, please wait for the OP to 'splain a thing or two instead of being so vague with the original question.

 

[Swampman]

Maybe this will help...

 

[Scrod314]

Sorry.. I thought I said it is a Shield 40. It's got a little snap to it. I like how it fits my hands.

 

[readyeddy]

Right or left handed?

 

[JJFitch]

The M&P Shield is a light weight pistol. The 40 S&W full power loads are "snappy" as you have stated. Unless you are an experienced shooter it is likely a symptom of recoil aversion. Some people push against the recoil just as you "expect" the gun to fire. Doing so for a right handed shooter results in shots drifting left. In severe cases left and low!

As mentioned in posts above dry fire practice with focus on sight alignment so the gun doesn't "dip"!

Smart phones can be used to video your dry/live fire practice to see if you are pushing and the gun "dips". I use this training tool to show shooters faults in stance , grip and trigger press. This way they can track their progress.

When training I watch for shooters getting tired. When their groups begin drifting low left it's time for a break!

Smiles,

 

[Scrod314]

I am right handed. So, probably just recoil anticipation? Also, fixed sights but after market Ameriglow sights. I was using Winchester 180 grain target ammo.

 

[JJFitch]

I am right handed. So, probably just recoil anticipation? Also, fixed sights but after market Ameriglow sights. I was using Winchester 180 grain target ammo.

After the sights were installed was the gun fired from a bench to verify POA/POI?

The three dot sight system may shoot low or put another way to the center of the front dot at 15 yards.

Smiles,

 

[readyeddy]

Probably not a flinch. A flinch would send the bullet into the dirt.

My guess is the sights are off for the load you’re shooting. If you were throwing to the right, I would have said you were squeezing with your right palm.

 

[JR24]

Trigger pull, anticipating recoil, and jerking the trigger are all usually why right handers shoot left or low left.

Watch some of the videos provided and some good dry fire really helps, if that's too boring, something like the iTarget Pro or Mantis can be really helpful and doesn't cost precious, precious ammo. Helps get the fundimentals down, then it's working on controlling recoil anticipation.

Of course it's possible your sight is just a bit off too, that does occasionally happen.

Loosen the grip with your left hand. A lot of people grip the bejeezus out of the pistol with their left hand. You don’t have to. Loosen up a bit and you’ll good to go.

Interestingly I find when I'm shooting left, it's because I'm gripping too much with my main hand and not enough with my support hand. I get a bit lazy there and it shows, once I tighten back up I'm back right on target.