Gun cleaning accident

[ApexinM3]

I hear of these stories from time to time but still can't figure out how they happen. The only answer I can come up with is that the fundamental rules of firearm safety are being ignored. Such a shame a life was lost due to carelessness. :banghead:

One question though: how does one clean a loaded gun? I thought the round in the chamber kind of blocks cleaning the barrel. Thoughts???

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200128,00.html

Tennessee Dad Accidentally Shoots, Kills Son on Father's Day Eve
Monday, June 19, 2006

OLIVER SPRINGS, Tenn. — Authorities said a 23-year-old man died after his father accidentally shot him while cleaning a handgun on the eve of Father's Day.

David Spoon Jr. was shot in the chest by David Spoon Sr. around 9 p.m. Saturday when the father was apparently cleaning the gun on his front porch and it discharged, said Roane County sheriff's officials.

Neighbors heard the shot and ran over to the Spoons' house. They tried to give the young man CPR but could not revive him. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

Authorities said there were several witnesses to the incident and no charges are being filed against the father.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Are you elegible for a Darwin Award if instead of killing or sterilizing yourself, you take your offspring out of the gene pool?

 

[Leatherneck]

I expect that 99% of the time "cleaning the gun" equates to "fooling with the gun."

TC

 

[ApexinM3]

Are you elegible for a Darwin Award if instead of killing or sterilizing yourself, you take your offspring out of the gene pool?

Probably not, sadly; I think it states that one must remove themselves from the genepool & therfore no longer able to reproduce. I like your thinking, though!

 

[Snake Eyes]

I'm still waiting for some one to tell me how to take down a Glock for cleaning without violating the Four Rules.

My impression of the multitude of Glock "Cleaning Accidents" is they are a result of a brain fart--specifically, reversing the "drop mag, clear chamber" process.

But the fact remains that you can't take down a Glock without pulling the trigger first.

 

[Henry Bowman]

I'm still waiting for some one to tell me how to take down a Glock for cleaning without violating the Four Rules.

My impression of the multitude of Glock "Cleaning Accidents" is they are a result of a brain fart--specifically, reversing the "drop mag, clear chamber" process.

Drop mag.
Move mag away from you and Glock.
Clear chamber.
Clear chamber again and lock slide back.
Look into chamber to assure clear.
Lood down mag well to see that it is empty.
Stick finger in mag well to prove empty.
Drop slide and point in a direction that if the bullet fairy reloaded the chamber in the time between dropping the slide and chamber closing, no one would get injured.
Pull trigger. Click. (*crickets chirping*)


I do not believe that this process is overly cautious nor burdensome. After it clean and reloaded -- don't fiddle with it.

 

[ball3006]

You would think....

when the cleaning rod would not go down the barrel, the guy would look to see what the obstruction was...........It is not an accident, it is stupidity.........How does anyone know if it was a Glock, or not? A Glock is just a gun, like any other gun, it is LOADED UNTIL YOU LOOK TO SEE IF IT IS NOT........What is so hard about that..........chris3

 

[shooter94]

Accidental death by cleaning a gun...is b.s. It's suicide, plain and simple.

 

[Henry Bowman]

It's suicide, plain and simple.

Except in the reported case, he shot his son.

 

[silverlance]

methinks

dad killed son in heated argument and now the family says it was a "cleaning accident".

unless he really meant to point the gun at his son "just to check if it's loaded.."

blam* yup, it is...


btw, for all you glock bashers (although imho i do agree that a pistol that reqs trigger pull to take down gives me the willies), the Mosin Nagant is another gun that requires the trigger to be pulled to disassemble.

Thing is, it's a heckuva lot harder to shoot yourself with a four foot long rifle than a g19..

 

[shooter94]

Except in the reported case, he shot his son.
__________________

Then it's murder...

 

[rudolf]

Those Glock critics always make me laugh. They tell me a revolver is cool cause it always goes bang when you pull the trigger. Next thing they say is a Glock is bad cause it goes bang when you pull the trigger. Go figure.

 

[shermacman]

It is a horrible story whether it was murder or stupidity. These events add to the gun grabbers' Book of Lists. And no, there is no part of cleaning a gun that requires a person to point the muzzle at your child and pull the trigger.

As far as the Glock issue, I dry fire practice all the time.

 

[ArmedBear]

WRT having to pull the trigger of a Glock when disassembling it, the Ruger .22 pistols have been that way for nearly 60 years now, and they're probably more common than Glocks. It's never been a problem.

My ritual is similar to what's written above.

Point the gun somewhere that, if it did go off, no one would get hurt.
Keep my fingers away from and out of the trigger guard.
Open the bolt and lock it open. Look to see if I see any rounds.
Drop the magazine.
Look again.
One more time.
Close the bolt.
Begin disassembly procedure (that includes pulling the trigger).

Simple enough.

 

[Lou629]

Sheer stupidity or malice?

I have never understood how anyone could kill themselves or anyone else while 'cleaning the gun'. It not only violates the spirit & letter of all manner of the safety rules with firearms, it also violates basic common-sense. You never ever even begin to clean a gun without double & triple checking that the thing is unloaded first. It could not get any simpler easier or safer than that.
There may be a good bit more to this story than we have been told, or may ever learn. Were they drinking? Were they fighting? Is there some sort of an ongoing 'family feud'? We'll probably never know.

 

[Jim Watson]

Shot "while cleaning a gun" is often a coverup for suicide/murder, or an even worse case of negligence inviting prosecution. I am automatically suspicious of any such report.

 

[leadcounsel]

Others have got it right.

"Shot self cleaning gun" is a cover up for suicide. There are MANY reasons for this including public opinion and INSURANCE premiums (accidental death pays, suicide does not).

"Shot another person" cleaning gun is almost always a cover up for murder. There are many reasons for this, obviously the most important include legal charges.

 

[pax]

I'm still waiting for some one to tell me how to take down a Glock for cleaning without violating the Four Rules.

The Four Rules:

1) All guns are always loaded.

2) Do not point the firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy.

3) Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target.

4) Be sure of your target (and what's beyond/behind/around it).

In order to shoot his son, the fellow in the news managed to violate all four of the rules. Although we don't even know whether the firearm in question was a Glock, Glock-bashers always blame the firearm design whenever this comes up. So let's discuss: how do you clean a Glock without violating the Four Rules?

Rule One means that you never do anything with an allegedly unloaded gun that you would not do with it if you knew it was loaded. This is the cardinal rule, and all others follow naturally from it. So when you pick up your Glock to clean it, you treat it with every ounce of respect you would give it if you knew it was loaded and would fire if the trigger were pulled.

Rule Two means that when you carry your Glock to the cleaning area, you maintain contant awareness of where the muzzle is pointing. Just because you are preparing to clean the gun does not mean that it is no longer a gun. Rule Two also means that when you are ready to disassemble the gun, you do not point it at your dog, your left hand, your firstborn child, or your wife's favorite and most expensive piece of furniture. You never allow the firearm to point at anything you are not willing to destroy, nor at any human beings who aren't on your better-dead list.

Rule Three means that you do not put your finger on the trigger until you have deliberately picked out the optimal spot for a bullet to land. The Glock is not pointed in some random direction when you pull the trigger. Rather, you have deliberately considered which spot in the area would be the most acceptable place to put a bullet, and you point the Glock at that spot and at that spot only before you ever allow your finger to rest upon the trigger.

Rule Four means that when you choose that spot, you'd darn well better remember that interior walls don't stop bullets. If you need to build a solid backstop in order to have a safe place to disassemble the Glock in your home, you do so.

And that's how you disassemble a Glock while obeying the Four Rules.

pax

 

[GeorgiaGlocker]

This guy should be prosecuted. There is no excuse for what he did. As far as cleaning a Glock goes...it is quite simple. Make sure the gun is unloaded! I have no trouble pulling the trigger as part of the process to clean my Glock. Why? Because I double check to make sure it is unloaded. Why should that be a problem? I just don't see it.

 

[gezzer]

And just where are the 4 rules chiseled in stone or inlaid in gold? Use some common sense.

Pull the magazine. Eject the shell in chamber, Lock slide back, look in chamber, stick little finger in chamber, it's empty drop slide, point gun at a good backstop, pull trigger. Remember their cartridges not Mexican jumping beans.

I love the Glock haters no common sense whatever. If you cannot follow the above don't touch guns period because you are not ready. To bad college does not teach common sense or for that even high school.

 

[MudPuppy]

I saw a the 4 rules carved in stone at a gunstore a good while back.

I don't know of a small arm that requires you to point it at someone while cleaning it.

I'm fairly careful, but found I had a bullet in the chamber when I thought I didnt a couple of years ago. Fortunately there was no ND and it was never pointed at anyone, but very sobering indeed. A second's lapse in judgment is unforging.

I didn't have the benifit of an older person to bring me up with the proper safety lessons and got my first exposure in boot camp--I hope to do better by my kids.

 

[sevesteen]

When I'm done at the range, I run a boresnake up through the magwell, then out the barrel to clean the feedramp as well as the barrell. I've decided to get another boresnake for my home cleaning kit--Not only a decent first step in cleaning, but I can't use my normal method if there's either a magazine or chambered round.

 

[Kentak]

I'm still waiting for some one to tell me how to take down a Glock for cleaning without violating the Four Rules.

Easy. By doing what virtually every auto pistol manufacturer states you should do before cleaning their firearm. Drop the mag and rack the slide back to positively acertain that the weapon is clear. Then, and only then, you point the gun in a safe direction and pull the trigger. Proceed with take down.

K

 

[evan price]

Not just Glocks. Start hating Springfield XD's/HS2000's, they also require the trigger to be pulled before the slide comes off the grip frame.

Ya know I have stripped my Glocks (and now XD) so many times and never had a problem with shooting my kids. Let alone how many times I have stripped other guns.

Does it violate the 4 rules to clean a gun? No. But people keep getting shot. PEOPLE violate the 4 rules.

 

[one45auto]

I agree. I've never had a problem taking down my Glocks for cleaning. I just check, double-check, and triple check that the chamber is empty and then point the gun in a safe direction before pulling the trigger. Easy.

Shooting someone else while "cleaning" a firearm takes a great deal of stupidity.