Gun club background checks?

[Axis II]

Does your gun club/hunt club perform a background check on new members? I was at my clubs meeting last night and they voted about 6 people in and several of them were recommended by members just because "they met them at a public shoot and they seemed like an okay person". Club bylaws state that two active/good standing members with one year or more seniority have to sign for that person and 99% of the time its someone both people have know for awhile. Last night we heard a lot of "well i met that guy at the public shoot and he seemed like a nice guy" and someone asked if we run background checks on new members and we were told no!

I will say i was shocked that they don't do a basic background check on new members to make sure no one has a criminal record. When asked what the $85 initiation fee goes too we were told it goes into the general fund. Of course this turned the club house into a free for all with members saying well someone signed for them so its good enough and that's the bylaws so there is no discussion. Some members voiced legal liability concerns if the club did let a felon or what not in there and something happened and worried we could be shut down. What got me was dues are $65-year and initiation fee is $85 and they proposed to raise the initiation fee to cover the cost of the background check. Well its already $20 over the yearly dues. I was actually shocked how many people opposed this stating invasion of privacy, well if the guy has a gun he must not be a felon, ask to see the persons ccw upon starting the application process, scratch the idea all together and take members words on it.

We get to argue some more next meeting and see where this goes but it got me wondering how many clubs DO NOT do background checks?

 

[1948CJ2A]

I'm not in a gun club but if the prospective member has a concealed handgun license, I would think this would suffice in place of an additional check.

 

[BSA1]

Be very, very careful about using information from background checks.

A non-leo can not run a NCIC check on other individuals.

There are websites on the Internet that claim to offer background checks.

You can do a Internet search for criminal convictions for free on State Department of Corrections and some Sheriff Departments.

However there is no guarantee that the information is correct or even if it is the same person. Some Law Enforcement Agencies are bad about never updating arrest records to show the final disposition of the charges.

If you use information to ban a person from joining the club based on information that is proved to be false you could be open to a (rightfully) civil lawsuit.

My club has a one-year probationary period that requires the applicate to complete a number of requirements to prove they are willing to be active helping the club and allow other members a chance to get to know him.

 

[B1gGr33n]

I've been a member of 3 different clubs, and none of them ran background checks. The largest club was when I was living in western MN, mostly because it was the only one in a reasonable driving distance with a rifle range longer 100 yards. I mailed in a check for my club dues and was sent the combination for the lock to the clubhouse. The club I'm in right now has you go to a gas station in town to pay your $20 and fill out the member card. We have to go to that station to sign out one of the two keys to the range whenever we want to shoot. I go shooting almost every Friday, and it's rare that anyone else is at the range. I've met maybe 4 or 5 people from the club. I've never even heard of a club that required sponsoring from existing members, let alone a background check. If a club told me that those were the requirements, I would be looking for a different club.

 

[Axis II]

Be very, very careful about using information from background checks.

A non-leo can not run a NCIC check on other individuals.

There are websites on the Internet that claim to offer background checks.

You can do a Internet search for criminal convictions for free on State Department of Corrections and some Sheriff Departments.

However there is no guarantee that the information is correct or even if it is the same person. Some Law Enforcement Agencies are bad about never updating arrest records to show the final disposition of the charges.

If you use information to ban a person from joining the club based on information that is proved to be false you could be open to a (rightfully) civil lawsuit.

My club has a one-year probationary period that requires the applicate to complete a number of requirements to prove they are willing to be active helping the club and allow other members a chance to get to know him.

We have a one year probation period also and i believe if you screw up enough your sponsors get in trouble also.

As far as the background checks go the local sheriff will finger print you for like $50 and run an FBI/BCI check and email to the club, prospective employer, etc. Several people in the club coach or are active with volunteering and stated they were required to provide one and the county sheriff did it for them. Working in the private security field for a mom and pop company along time ago they would send me to the sheriff or the hospital and they would finger print me and email me and the company a copy of the background check.

We mentioned about CCW but something i also thought was funny was most the people don't have one. I think most the members are there for a cheap place to shoot, fish and hunt. Most are target shooters and do our weekend matches.

 

[Axis II]

I've been a member of 3 different clubs, and none of them ran background checks. The largest club was when I was living in western MN, mostly because it was the only one in a reasonable driving distance with a rifle range longer 100 yards. I mailed in a check for my club dues and was sent the combination for the lock to the clubhouse. The club I'm in right now has you go to a gas station in town to pay your $20 and fill out the member card. We have to go to that station to sign out one of the two keys to the range whenever we want to shoot. I go shooting almost every Friday, and it's rare that anyone else is at the range. I've met maybe 4 or 5 people from the club. I've never even heard of a club that required sponsoring from existing members, let alone a background check. If a club told me that those were the requirements, I would be looking for a different club.

I agree with the sponsoring because the grounds aren't manned and there is a lot of expensive stuff sitting around. Yes, you cant get to it without the lock combo but everyone that's a member has a combo. Having a club member say hey i know this guy and he's not an idiot i agree with. In the last few years we have gotten some very questionable people in there because they show up to the public shoots or stop by when the gates open and someone signs for them and i haven't seen them around lately so i'm assuming they either left or were kicked out. At one public shoot the guy was arguing with the president because he was asked not to touch his shotgun while others were down range. If someone had signed for him just from having a 10min conversation with the guy and now he's a member that doesn't care about safety they need to draw a line somewhere.

 

[ontarget]

Were you shocked when YOU didn't have to get a background check or was it different then?

 

[straightshooterjake]

I think the reasonable vetting of club members can vary significantly in different jurisdictions. In Massachusetts, where I live, a license is required to own any firearm. I do not approve of this restrictive licensing, but it does simplify the issue of background checks. Anyone who has any type of firearms license has passed a complete background check, so the club does not have to worry about it.

In New Hampshire, no license has been required to own a firearm, and recently they adopted constitutional carry, so no license is required for concealed carry either. However, NH still has concealed carry licenses for people who need them for reciprocity with other states. I know some clubs require people to get the concealed carry license to insure that they have had a complete background check. Needing this license may be a minor hassle for some prospective club members, but it is not a big hurdle.

I will be interested to hear how this issue is handled by clubs in other jurisdictions.

 

[Speedo66]

The private range I belonged to for years in NYC had a policy where prospective members had to show up at a monthly admin. meeting and meet the members. They introduced themselves and talked to and interacted with the members and the ruling board. The person was then asked to step out while the board voted upon his or her application.
I quit after a prospective member of Japanese ethnicity was blackballed by one of the older board members citing Pearl Harbor. A few of the board members tried convince him he was being ridiculous, but by the bylaws, one blackball was sufficient to deny membership. I was embarrassed for the member who had brought him and quit.

I no longer live in NY and I’m now perfectly happy with membership in a public range and probably would not join another private club.

As an aside, anyone who had a pistol permit in NYC, be it carry, target, hunting, or home or business had been through exhaustive investigations, so a background check wasn’t an issue.

 

[George P]

I am a member at several clubs, both for metallic and shotgun; all they have ever done was take my name and money. One club insisted I be a current NRA member (which I am). Seems a little paranoid, but, I guess that depends on what part of the country you're in.

 

[Axis II]

Were you shocked when YOU didn't have to get a background check or was it different then?

I figured the $85 initiation fee and all my personal info was used to do a background check. I had to fill out pretty much a 4473. Are you illegal, felon, domestic violence, not allowed to own a firearm, drug user, etc. The application asked a lot but we all thought that initiation fee went for a background check but found out it doesn't.

 

[Axis II]

Putting all the 2A stuff to the side i think its a good idea because well it is a gun club, we hold monthly raffles of firearms, knives, ammo, etc. Have a lot of expensive stuff that members have access too so if Joe spent 10yrs in prison for burglary would you want him around your stuff or having full access to grounds keeping equipment, TV, ammo, computers,etc? One concern I had was with the gun raffles and i'm not sure how this works but say Joe is a felon or DV conviction and no one knows because he lied on his application or was indicted during membership and now he wins this fancy new glock 40cal in the raffle how do we know he's legally allowed to own a firearm? I am starting to notice that a lot of these members become members because there is a nice pond to fish, club house and grounds to use for parties, social dinners, hunting land, etc. You never know who is sitting amongst you, who you just opened up a barn full of tools too, who your trusting with firearms. IMO if a guy gets that upset about having to do a basic background check then he or someone he vouched for has something to hide.

 

[acdodd]

I belong to a gun club that has only one requirement that I'm aware of.
You must be an NRA member and I was told the reason behind that is they are insured through the NRA.
When I first joined they didn't even require an orientation, they do now.
I would have no problem with a background check but I think it's a solution looking for a problem.

 

[George P]

Putting all the 2A stuff to the side i think its a good idea because well it is a gun club, we hold monthly raffles of firearms, knives, ammo, etc. Have a lot of expensive stuff that members have access too so if Joe spent 10yrs in prison for burglary would you want him around your stuff or having full access to grounds keeping equipment, TV, ammo, computers,etc? One concern I had was with the gun raffles and i'm not sure how this works but say Joe is a felon or DV conviction and no one knows because he lied on his application or was indicted during membership and now he wins this fancy new glock 40cal in the raffle how do we know he's legally allowed to own a firearm? I am starting to notice that a lot of these members become members because there is a nice pond to fish, club house and grounds to use for parties, social dinners, hunting land, etc. You never know who is sitting amongst you, who you just opened up a barn full of tools too, who your trusting with firearms. IMO if a guy gets that upset about having to do a basic background check then he or someone he vouched for has something to hide.

So, poor Joe who made a mistake, did his time, now is to be castigated for the rest of his life?
And your last sentence is exactly the same attitude the antis take - "well if you have nothing to hide, why won't you let us dig into every aspect of your life":....

Not a club I would want to be joining; if folks are that paranoid about these issues, well, never mind; don't want to get into trouble with any Mods......

 

[Rock185]

George, If poor Joe did 10 years in prison, he is a Felon. There are lifelong consequences. And no, I don't want him in the club or around my stuff......ymmv

 

[GBExpat]

So, poor Joe who made a mistake, did his time, now is to be castigated for the rest of his life? ...

No one has suggested that poor old burglar Joe should be castigated, Silly ... just that he should be denied membership to a private gun club that performs background checks.

 

[doubleh]

George, If poor Joe did 10 years in prison, he is a Felon. There are lifelong consequences. And no, I don't want him in the club or around my stuff......ymmv

Some states restore your rights after you have completed your sentence and been a law abiding citizen for a period of years. Ten years here and I have no problem with that.

An NRA membership is all that's required at my club. You get a list of club rules when you join. Break them and you get a permanent trip down the road.

 

[Axis II]

So, poor Joe who made a mistake, did his time, now is to be castigated for the rest of his life?
And your last sentence is exactly the same attitude the antis take - "well if you have nothing to hide, why won't you let us dig into every aspect of your life":....

Not a club I would want to be joining; if folks are that paranoid about these issues, well, never mind; don't want to get into trouble with any Mods......

I know several people who are reformed but there are far more that are not reformed. I hold a degree in criminal justice/corrections and when i was in college it was proven statistics that that most crimes such as burglary/robbery, drugs the person will reoffend. Everyone always wants to play the anti card and its kind of old. I deal with this every day at work. I get a person background check and if they have not offended for the last several years and based on the offense they may or may not be allowed to work at my facility. If the person has a burglary charge that's 20yo i will admit that the person is most likely reformed and will not offend again but lets say the guy offended in 2014 and got out 3 months ago would you want a possible felon or domestic violence person dealing with firearms around you and your loved ones? I get everyone makes mistakes and some may have paid their debt to society. We agreed only do a 7yr basic background check. I have to get an FBI/BCI check several times and i don't cry about it because its part of life and i have nothing to hide. The reason i am required to have it is i carry a firearm around the public. Little league requires them because i'm sure you would want someone who beat, robbed and raped someone coaching your kids? I would like the club to do them just so we aren't handing out firearms at raffles to people who should have them or having other issues to deal with.

One guy brought me his background check several years ago and because it was only done the last 7 years no one know about him serving several rape sentance's, DV and other things that were subsequently found but he sure could brag about it to his co workers. What a productive member of society!

Oh, and the guy mentioned above background was found just by a basic Google search and clerk of courts which can be done by a 10yo kid. 1989 was when he crimes were committed. Now i would have never been able to tell other than the guy acted very creepy especially when a nice looking woman was present. From what i was told was this guy started a family and had employment with the same company for almost 30yrs but it still doesn't change his actions that HE chose to do some 30yrs ago. Burglary, drugs, DV, are things i can overlook but violent crimes i cannot. I know a few people with pasts that i trust 100% with my life and using a firearm but would i trust them to be in my house with thousands of dollars of tools or jewelry laying around? Nope!

 

[George P]

No one has suggested that poor old burglar Joe should be castigated, Silly ... just that he should be denied membership to a private gun club that performs background checks.

Why? If he has done his time and has paid his "debt to society" in full - meaning no probation, free to come and go as he pleases, in your eyes, that isn't good enough; so basically he has to serve a life term when it comes to clubs like yours.......Do you also kick out the guy who got a minor DUI? Do you check for vets with PTSD? Do you go back several generations looking for certain behavioral traits? If not, then why not - better sure no one with family histories of depression or similar are allowed in, right?

 

[Axis II]

Some states restore your rights after you have completed your sentence and been a law abiding citizen for a period of years. Ten years here and I have no problem with that.

An NRA membership is all that's required at my club. You get a list of club rules when you join. Break them and you get a permanent trip down the road.

we do the same with ours. I'm thinking something happened over the 80yrs this club has been in service to bring in the rule of two people vouching for them cause in all reality your using firearms and i think its more to make sure the persons not an idiot going to get someone hurt. Ive seen guys bring guest up there that were asked to leave, public shooters asked to leave because the safety aspect and then wanting to argue with it and your a guest just made it worse. I wont sign for anyone who i haven't personably known for at least a year. A guy pulling into the grounds and asking someone to sign for them and that person does sign for them shows me both people might be a little off. I was cutting the grass one night and some guy pulled in asking about membership and how to get someone to sign so we told him and then he goes on a tangent about Hilary Clinton, Obama, isis, bush, NRA, etc IMO he had some mental issues and some real hate for certain people and that was just 2min of talking to him but some of those guys sign away because its a new member and more money for the club.

 

[Axis II]

Why? If he has done his time and has paid his "debt to society" in full - meaning no probation, free to come and go as he pleases, in your eyes, that isn't good enough; so basically he has to serve a life term when it comes to clubs like yours.......Do you also kick out the guy who got a minor DUI? Do you check for vets with PTSD? Do you go back several generations looking for certain behavioral traits? If not, then why not - better sure no one with family histories of depression or similar are allowed in, right?

At the facility i work at if your an outside worker and your background check shows me you have several DUI within say 2-3yrs you have an alcohol problem so there is a chance that your going to show up half crocked and get yourself hurt, killed or possibly hurt someone else then they are denied access. I had to send a guy away several months ago that had 3 DUI in a year. That means he was caught drinking and driving 3 times in a year, who knows how many more. One guy had a carrying concealed charge, other felonious assault. All done with a basic 7yr background check performed by their employer on the internet or local sheriff.

 

[Axis II]

Okay before anyone posts anymore nonsense about anti's, bringing our veterans into this, etc. I didn't start this thread to get into what personal beliefs are i was just asking because we as a club which only 30 of the 150 members show up to the meetings were trying to figure this out. Several people got very, very upset when they mentioned background checks and those of us already in would be grandfathered in for the most part but if you or the person your attempting to get into the club has nothing to hide why get so belligerent about it. Just trying to get opinions on what other clubs due.

Lets stay on topic so this doesn't get closed.

 

[George P]

nevermind then

 

[Kendahl]

My gun club doesn't do background checks. However, it does require that members hold a current concealed carry permit or the state permit required to acquire a handgun. New members must be sponsored by a current member. The membership application form includes some of the questions from form 4473. NRA membership also is required. (The NRA has been very generous to the club.)

When I joined a practical shooting club thirty years ago, I was told they would do a background check before approving my application. Since concealed carry and acquisition permits didn't exist then, I suspect it was done under the table by a member who was a police officer.

I don't object to background checks. It keeps out the kind of people I keep a gun to defend myself against.

 

[Jim NE]

I'm not in a gun club but if the prospective member has a concealed handgun license, I would think this would suffice in place of an additional check.

That seems logical, in part because you're not duplicating efforts, and those who issue cw permits have greater resources to do the checks anyway. Even people who don't have carry permits in our state will have a bg check for firearms purchase permits, so those should suffice, as well.