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Gun Control in Darfur

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Nathanael_Greene, Aug 18, 2004.

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  1. Nathanael_Greene

    Nathanael_Greene Member

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    Don't think it couldn't happen here, if we were disarmed...

    From The National Review Online:

    Avoiding Genocide
    The right to bear arms could have saved Sudan.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/kopel_gallant_eisen200408180824.asp

    It is long past time for the United Nations and the rest of the international community to do more than bemoan genocide after the fact. It is time for formal international law to recognize the natural right of self-defense, and to acknowledge the universal human right of "having arms for their defense" so that, as a last resort, victims can "restrain the violence of oppression." As history has shown, as long as dictatorships exist, the only way to ensure the primary right to life is to guarantee the auxiliary right to arms.
     
  2. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Member

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    Well, expanding the Lautenberg Amendment to include all misdemeanors would be a start.

    Pilgrim
     
  3. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    It is long past time for the United Nations to be sent packing to Zimbabwe, where it will fit right in with the local culture.
     
  4. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Same as it ever was, those without weapons are slaughtered by those with weapons. And Americans are told we must be disarmed for the "common good.":scrutiny:

    If the U.S. and U.K. really cared about the Blacks in the Sudan, they would airdrop the arms caches they captured in Iraq into the Sudan. By not doing so they admit that control over people is far more important than preventing murder, genocide and saving lives.

    The mission of government is to control you, not save you. :uhoh:
     
  5. DesertEagle613

    DesertEagle613 Member

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    If one in twenty of the guys in Darfur had rifles and the skill to use them, the killing squads would wet themselves.

    This is not difficult. Many are dying now who could have been saved.
     
  6. moa

    moa Member

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    I did notice one odd error in the article. To give an idea of Sudan's size, the article said:

    "ARMED RESISTANCE
    Sudan is the largest country in Africa, over four times the size of Alaska."

    I got a large Rand McNally world map right in front of me. Alaska is almost twice as large as Sudan. Algeria and Libya are almost as big as Sudan.

    I guess geography is not one of the authors strengths.
     
  7. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    Fun with Google, math and geography:

    sudan: 2,505,810 sq km (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/su.html)

    alaska: 656,425 sq mi (http://www.netstate.com/states/geography/ak_geography.htm)
    = 1,700,133 sq km


    1 sq mile = 2.5899 sq kilometers
    (http://www.google.com/search?q=sq+miles+to+sq+kilometers)

    2,505,810/1,700,133=1.4738

    So, Sudan is almost exactly one-and-a-half times the size of Alaska.

    Sizes on maps can be deceiving -- it depends on the projection (Mercator, etc) of the map. (Here's a fascinating little illustration of different projections: http://www.btinternet.com/~se16/js/mapproj.htm )

    Here's an equal-area projection:
    [​IMG]

    I guess that geography isn't one of moa's strengths either! :D (duck)


    edit: if you take "land area" only (leaving out lakes and such), Sudan is 1.6x the size of Alaska. Still nowhere near 4x...
     
  8. KLR

    KLR Member

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    From an Alaska facts website: Alaska covers 656,425 square miles

    From Britannica.com: Covering 966,757 square miles (2,503,890 square kilometers), the Republic of the Sudan is the largest country in Africa.

    Depending upon the projection used, maps/charts tend to distort the apparent size of land masses near the poles. Greenland typically looks huge when it actually isn't as big. Take a look at a globe which has no such distortion- you can tell the Sudan is bigger than Alaska.

    This has a somewhat convoluted explanation of projections:Map Projections

    Four years of navigation classes will do that to you! :D
     
  9. KLR

    KLR Member

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    Oh hell Matt, you beat me!

    Read any good "Badge of Honor" books lately?
     
  10. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    One more thing: if you take 2.5 million (the sq km of the Sudan) and divide by 656,000 (the sq mi of Alaska) you get about 3.8. I think that the authors, like NASA on the Mars mission, forgot to change consistently to metric units!

    Eek!
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2004
  11. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    Thanks for noticing. The last one, "Final Justice," wasn't all that great, but I do own them all.
     
  12. KLR

    KLR Member

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    COOL! I just checked the link. :D :D :D

    I didn't know a new one was out yet. THANKS!!!!!!!

    Must . . . buy!
     
  13. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    KLR - where are ya in the Midwest? If you're in Minneapolis you can read my copy...
     
  14. KLR

    KLR Member

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    SE Michigan, actually. I'll pick it up this weekend or ask the wife to.

    Thanks! :cool:
     
  15. Trebor

    Trebor Member

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    KLR,

    Where in SE Michigan are you? I'm in Novi and I could meet you at a range some time next week and loan you the book. It's really a dissapointing book in a couple ways. The worst thing is that Griffith updated the setting from the '70s to now. The characters didn't age though, they just now are in contemporary times and have cell phones, computers, Glocks, etc.
     
  16. twency

    twency Member

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    Interesting quote from the linked article:
    Particularly interesting in the context of this board, as the right to self defense is frequently described and/or thought of as the fundamental human right above all others, by some on this board (including, I assume, our illustrious board owner). This seems to be a slightly different formulation: personal security is the basic core right, and the right to keep and bear arms defensively is an auxilliary right supporting that core right.

    I suppose one might say it's all just semantics, but it caught my eye because of the context of being linked from THR.

    -twency
    ____________________

    A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
     
  17. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    Sheesh.

    I contacted the National Review over 24 hours ago, pointed out the error, and gave them the calculations and citations above.

    They haven't fixed it.

    Apparently they don't care all that much about their credibility. :(
     
  18. KLR

    KLR Member

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    Trebor-

    Thanks for the offer, but I am very busy over the next few days (reserve weekend etc.) I have no time. :mad:

    Why would Griffin mess with a good thing? That makes no sense, whatsoever.

    I work in Detroit proper, and live on the west side, not too far from (but a little to the south of) you.

    Been to Top Gun shooting sports yet? I know Taylor is a little out of the way, but it is a cool shop. Nice atmosphere.
     
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