Gun Culture - 1994 vs 2014

[eocoolj]

I am too young to remember the circumstances and the repercussions surrounding the 1994 gun ban, but I was hoping I could get some of you to weigh in.

I get the impression that guns which were referred to in the last ban as "assault weapons" (particularly the AR-15) are now FAR more mainstream than they were in 1994. I believe the AR, if all manufacturers and derivatives are combined, has been the top-selling centerfire rifle for the past few years. What was the top selling centerfire rifle in 1994? Were ARs and AKs significantly more rare to see at the range? Was the gun culture more focused on hunting rifles then? Do you think the gun culture overall has grown or contracted in the past 20 years?

 

[OARNGESI]

thats a good question i bet at the very least there is 2-3x as many ar15s now than in 94 and people appreciate bayonets way more now.

 

[Texan Scott]

I remember, and I'm willing to bet there are enough antis left in DC who remember how that turned out for them that it won't happen again soon. They pretty much handed US gun makers a legal 10yr monopoly on semiautomatic rifles by banning the import of foreign ones, a year's warning in which to make more than enough hi-cap pre- bans to last a decade and then some, and a good excuse to charge 300% mark-up on them. By the time 2000 rolled around, and the NRA spent significantly more money than on any presidential race in history, some antis were realizing their mistake.... and a lot of them have lost seats over it. Bill Clinton knows this- he's admitted it in public. An AWB could be political suicide; but if they wanna try, it might be amusing to watch.

 

[RBid]

The last I heard, the FBI estimate for privately owned "assault weapons" was over 4 million. That was months ago.

The GAO should have a very comprehensive write-up on the results of the previous AWB for the Senate to review. Nothing in it would indicate that the AWB had been a success of any amount.

I'm more worried about SCOTUS appointments.

 

[Mulk]

Also isn't their more money to be made by the anti gun crowd by keeping the conflict going as opposed to actually winning on their terms? If they were to ever win it strikes me that their 7 to 8 figure a year cash cow would be dead right?

 

[Sergei Mosin]

RBid is quite right. The real problem here is Obama's control over the federal judiciary and particularly Supreme Court nominations. He has already appointed two anti-2A justices and he will certainly appoint another when Ginsburg retires, which will happen soon. Scalia and Kennedy are the wild cards - both pro-2A justices, both 76 years old. If one or both of them should retire or die while Obama is president, we're in deep trouble.

 

[r1derbike]

Civilian Assault Weapon; There's an oxymoron for you.

Previous videos of semi-automatic weapons at the start of scare videos, then quickly going to fully-auto weapons footage to show how dangerous semi-auto legal civilian rifles were, will reappear.

Expect the same level of under the table Brady Bill attention, this time around too.

They think all CCW holders are criminals, waiting to commit a crime.

I've got an observation; most politicians are criminals, who have committed crimes, but just haven't been caught yet.

As a lame-duck, our CIC will do and try anything to screw us...what has he got to lose?

Just hope we have enough support in D.C. to hammer him, and his under-the-table/under-the-radar sleazy, cloak and dagger politics.

This guy is not to be trusted the next 4 years.

I firmly believe politicians should be limited to two terms; one in office, the other in prison.

 

[lechiffre]

The 1994 ban created the demand for the AR-15.

 

[evan price]

Bear in mind that in 1994 Glocks were nowhere near as common but the "wondernine" high cap 9mm like Berettas and Rugers were.
Full capacity mags quadrupled in price. The phrase "Pre-Ban" entered the lexicon.

Otherwise it had no real effect except to cause a lot of milsurp rifles to have the threads cut off the barrels.

 

[gp911]

In 1994 the internet wasn't anything like it is now. Viewing pictures and loading one page took forever. The world is very different now and people aren't as insulated from other viewpoints. Information travels much faster now. ARs are MUCH more common now, but the scare tactics will be used for them along with ammo count, magazine capacity, etc.

 

[breakingcontact]

I'm more worried about SCOTUS appointments.

Bingo bango bongo.

It's all about this, other appointed judges and executive orders.

 

[buck460XVR]

There's been a lot of changes in the gun culture since 1994, and not just in the laws concerning what many refer to a "assault type weapons". Public positive attitude and acceptance of guns has increased greatly. By percentage many more folks in this country own guns now as back then. Look at the number of states that now allow concealed carry that would have thrown the book at you back then. Consider the increasing number of hunting and gun type TV shows that have appeared outta nowhere in the last 18 years. Public attitude in this country swings back and forth like a kite. Media hype, positive or negitive, right or wrong, has much to do with it. I remember the gun culture back in the early sixties when one could buy a then "military type assault rifle" from the back of a magazine or from a barrel in the sporting goods section of Montgomery Ward. This included high capacity semi-automatic M-1 Carbines. 45 years ago that all changed because of a negative image of guns portrayed by the media and those with power. Watching a coupla Presidents getting shot on T.V. didn't help either. Since then, education and positive image has made a big difference in the position guns have in our society today. So has electing folks that support us. We as gun owners need to continue that.

 

[SilentScream]

I don't think we have as much to worry about as we think. We all seem to forget how egocentric these politicians are and by that I mean Obama now has his "Legacy" to think about which to me means he's going to be worried more about getting his health care stuff up and running Vs. potentially sinking his party for another decade like Clinton did the last time around. However stranger things have happened.

 

[GEM]

There is scholarly and economic analyses that show that there are two gun cultures in the USA. One is the older outdoorsy hunting, classic target shooting crew and the other is a self-defense culture which also can have a strong urban and suburban constituency.

Of course there is some overlap, but the SD culture is where the growth is. The interest in AK, AR pattern guns is driven by SD culture as compared to hunting long arm desires.

The growth in gun sales reflects handguns for SD and the EBRs for home defense and disaster situations. That's the take I get from the scholary criminological work and the shooting industry analyses.

It would be hard to take away SD/HD guns now. I saw a picture of a guy sitting in front of his house in Long Beach, NY (where I had family) with a pump gun. This is NY and in the NY Times. No one seemed freaked out by it. So despite some pols of the usual type, SD and HD gun culture is growing. 55% of GOP and 40% of Democratic households own guns. Hard to undo that.

 

[Kingcreek]

The NSSF recently reported that 30% of recent gun buyers were buying their first gun, mostly for self defense, and I don't remember but a significant number of them were women.

 

[Cosmoline]

The 1994 ban created the demand for the AR-15.

Bingo. As a gun control law it was a failure, but it drew enormous attention to firearms which had previously been pretty exotic and expensive curiosities. By telling people they couldn't have these things, they made everyone want one. And the law's inherent idiocy made it an easy target for the pro-gun side. Far from marginalizing "assault weapons," the law helped make them America's favorite firearms.

 

[barnbwt]

The NSSF recently reported that 30% of recent gun buyers were buying their first gun, mostly for self defense, and I don't remember but a significant number of them were women.

Either people are more paranoid than ever before, or for some reason, they've shed the shame of defending themselves. It is a very weird and abrupt shift in attitudes that I've noticed in the last 10 years or so. The zombie culture thing is a reflection of it too; folks buying for defense, but still uncomfortable admitting (even to themselves) what they're defending against.

Society-level emotions tend to stem from some cause, and whatever it is in this case, it is certainly sowing unease in the herd...

By telling people they couldn't have these things, they made everyone want one.

No kidding; just look at how obsessed Japanese mass media is with firearms, considering no has or ever will have any (hence the massive Airsoft market over there). H&Ks entire civilian business model is based on this premise, too

TCB

 

[gunnutery]

The thing about the AWB that got me was the misinformation/ignorance surrounding it. People had no clue that the ban was only restricting manufacturers. I turned 18 in 1998 and bought my MAK90 and could still buy 30 round mags for it. I had friends and family that were surprised I was able to buy that.

I think with the "information age" people are starting to look at news media and have a little less trust in the people that are supposed tell us the truth. It was how many countless media outlets that told us there would be blood up to our ankles after CCW laws started popping up?

As others have said, SCOTUS is the biggest threat to our rights. Our recent victories have been very narrow ones. Which really blows my mind. We shouldn't have too much problems from legislators anytime soon, but the "justices" could cause major waves.

 

[USAF_Vet]

I enlisted in 98 at 18, so I was a little young to really see the initial effects of the '94 AWB. First AK I saw in real life was one that was being shot at me in Iraq. Since the sunset, I see an AK virtually every time I hit an outdoor range. AR's, I see them by the truckloads. I have one, all my friends either have one or are getting one. The gun culture has indeed become more acceptable in a lot of the country. The sheer volume of guns in private hands has grown since '04, and many of them are the evil hand guns that are easy to conceal, and the "hi cap" semi auto military styled rifles.

I have no doubt that O will attempt some form of gun control, but I don't think he'll have the support on either side of the aisle to get anything passed (without the use of an EO). I think that if he uses an EO to get his way, it won't be until after he's loaded up SCOTUS with leftist anti's. So I think we've got a couple years, at least, until we see any major push for gun control coming out of Washington.

 

[Twiki357]

RBid said: "I'm more worried about SCOTUS appointments."

Me to. Two or three of the conservative judges have said they were holding out until after this election and I'm afraid they won't make it until the next one.

The other thing that worries me is executive orders. Just like his majesty ignored immigration law, he can bypass congress and issue his own orders as to how the ATF/FBI/DOJ "Interprets" existing laws.

 

[Onmilo]

I think Mossberg has said it best with their new "Mossberg Modern Rifle" which is their take on the AR15 rifle. The guns aren't "Assault Rifles" anymore. They are modern hunting and sport weapons legitimately used and owned by Millions of shooters all over the country.

What struck me most about the 1994 ban was that it allowed domestic manufacture of the weapons to continue with some minor changes to "Evil" features while eliminating ALL import competition.
It also created an Us verses Them mentality by allowing Police and Security forces to have all the goodies common folk were no longer allowed and it solved nothing in the end.

Fact is, an American government cannot totally "Ban" anything firearm related, it would violate the Constitutional rights set down for American citizens. They can just make the stuff difficult to obtain or prohibitively expensive.

 

[poco loco]

Ar-15 variants are being sold at Wal-Mart here. I really think we have won the messaging war.

They are a mainstream weapon now unlike in 94, I do not think there are enough Democratic Senators or Congresscritters willing to sign on to even get something to the Presidents desk. Carolyn McCarthy will keep introducing the same bill with the same 13 sponsors and it will keep dieing in conference. Never even get to a vote.

The Dems well remember 94 and the number calling for bans or onerous restrictions are a small fraction of the Democratic Base. In fact it seems to me that they get more publicity from us than they do people who actually favor more controls than exist now. There are too many of us pro RKBA Democrats who are willing to stand up and say no, they do not have a free, zero push back audience like they did have.

Plus keep in mind it was Reagan who signed the Mulford act in California. Neither party can just be trusted, everything needs to be double verified because given the chance, imo, either major party would pass heavy gun control if they could. The real divide is not between Republicans and Democrats, it is between the 99% and the 1% and Plutocrats always like a docile unarmed populace. Much easier to control.

 

[barnbwt]

Ar-15 variants are being sold at Wal-Mart here. I really think we have won the messaging war.

We've finally got the proletariat access to neutered 50-year-old technology. We have definitely won our objectives. Until weapons are judged not by the color of their frames, but by the character of their owners, we have not won anything permanent.

Case in point is the ban on new full-auto guns. It was a logical leap in technology (foreseen centuries ago) no less dangerous (probably less so) than the advent of smokeless powder. The govt saw us fit to wield guns with powerful propellants, ergo they had no right to draw an arbitrary line in the sand based on further technological innovation. But the guns were successfully portrayed as tools of gangsters and subversives, and the public joyfully embraced their supposed salvation.

Imagine if computer technology was restricted to 50 year old hardware, in the interest of protecting our federal offices from hackers . Powerful computers, after all, were developed solely for military interests...

TCB

 

[Cosmoline]

It's going to be tough to get people to change their views on full auto. Pointing out that mass shootings would be LESS deadly with the murderers spraying rounds on FA doesn't seem to make much headway, even if it's true. The best that can be hoped for is a reopening of the registry at some point. On the plus side, there's a lot more short barreled uppers being put together under ATF rules than there used to be, at least from what I've seen. The fact that the ATF has two old spinsters working on all the applications and a 6+ month turnaournd is something that should be addressed.

 

[ol' scratch]

I was a teenager during that time in Northern Michigan. The hunting rifle of choice in that area during that time? A Chinese or Russian SKS. You couild get one cheap at that time and I know lots of people who had one as their first rifle. I also remember seeing more than a few AK's (with 5 round mags) in the area. They just made sense and were sensibly priced for the most part.

After the ban, there were many very angry residents in that area. I would say that it did more to radicalize people than anything I can remember. I knew people who were toying with the idea of "canning" (packing them in grease and sealing them in PVC and burying them. I knew at least one person who did this) rifles so the government wouldn't find them. The Chicoms were no longer available, but the Yugos came in and guys started putting detachable duck bill mags for their C & R rifles. Many were butchered to try and make them look like an AK. I still see them pop up from time to time.

The other thing I remember about the time period is that the Antis didn't stop. First it was the so called "Assault Weapons". Then it was shotguns. At one point, they started talking about banning pumps and all semi automatics. This caused my dad inparticular to become really angry (he hunts with an Ithaca Mag-10). As someone who likes to shoot and grew up hunting and shooting, I thought it was the end of our sport. Something else that many people don't remember is that Clinton passed a measure that prohibited the sale of millions of 1911's to the civilian market. They scrapped them all. If I remember, they did the same thing to the M1 Carbines and many M1 Garands. This made MANY people angry in the milsurp market. In my lifetime, I don't remember a more antigun time. That is why I shudder when I think that Hilary Clinton could become President.

One thing that does trouble me is that some people never learned. I have read a few places online how they can have them as long as they don't come after what (I) like to shoot attitude. It was the same thing that they used to divide us in the 90's. Make no bones about it, they want them all. I like all firearms from Autos to smoke poles, so I really don't think there is a bad gun out there. If you don't like to shoot it, don't buy it, but don't try and keep it from those of us who DO want them. I must admit, I have purchased more black rifles due to a fear they MIGHT gain a foothold, but I am not going crazy.